Why do we have to press a button to open train doors in the UK and European countries?

[miklcct]

In nearly all European countries I have been to, I need to press a button to open the train door. In some countries the same need to be done to open the bus door as well. This practice does not exist in Asia, including Commonwealth countries, where all doors are centrally operated by the driver.

What's the point having us to press a button to open train doors? I can only see it's bad because there is an additional layer of complexity, the risk of button failure, and it significantly lengthens the dwell time at stations. I think London Underground has already abolished this practice, but what's the point of introducing it at the first place?

If all doors are centrally controlled, the dwell time at stations can be compressed to about 20 seconds as long as there are enough doors for many people to board / alight at the same time.

 

[AlterEgo]

Less wear and tear on components, lower chances of door faults causing delays, better regulation of interior temperature on trains.

 

[Irascible]

Not letting outside air in when you don't have to is a fairly big advantage. Pre sliding doors we had to open the door with a handle anyway, so it's not new behaviour.

 

[miklcct]

Less wear and tear on components, lower chances of door faults causing delays, better regulation of interior temperature on trains.

Less wear and tear?! I don't believe so. In most cases, when the train stops at the station, all buttons on the train, inside and outside, are pressed at the same time by multiple passengers wanting to get on and off on the train. It's rare to see any of the train doors aren't pressed open at a station unless that station is in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Watershed]

In nearly all European countries I have been to, I need to press a button to open the train door. In some countries the same need to be done to open the bus door as well. This practice does not exist in Asia, including Commonwealth countries, where all doors are centrally operated by the driver.

What's the point having us to press a button to open train doors? I can only see it's bad because there is an additional layer of complexity, the risk of button failure, and it significantly lengthens the dwell time at stations. I think London Underground has already abolished this practice, but what's the point of introducing it at the first place?

If all doors are centrally controlled, the dwell time at stations can be compressed to about 20 seconds as long as there are enough doors for many people to board / alight at the same time.

It's only really worthwhile having doors centrally controlled at stations or on systems where you can be almost certain of having passengers boarding or alighting at every station, at every door.

Hence why door opening is automatic on the Tube but not on National Rail (with the exception of the Thameslink core).

Otherwise the cost of the factors @AlterEgo outlines outweighs the benefits.

Not every difference between the Asian and European/UK rail systems is because ours are 'worse'.

 

[Snow1964]

Opening doors unnecessarily in winter makes passengers cold, costs more to restore comfortable temperature. Similarly in summer it lets the dry chilled air out so not great idea at less busy stations

Why have a system that is just fighting the climate control by opening doors even if no one wants to use them.

 

[The Planner]

In nearly all European countries I have been to, I need to press a button to open the train door. In some countries the same need to be done to open the bus door as well. This practice does not exist in Asia, including Commonwealth countries, where all doors are centrally operated by the driver.

What's the point having us to press a button to open train doors? I can only see it's bad because there is an additional layer of complexity, the risk of button failure, and it significantly lengthens the dwell time at stations. I think London Underground has already abolished this practice, but what's the point of introducing it at the first place?

If all doors are centrally controlled, the dwell time at stations can be compressed to about 20 seconds as long as there are enough doors for many people to board / alight at the same time.

Unless its only a handful of people you won't get dwells at that time, largely pointless anyway considering the minimum dwell is 30 seconds. Unless your platforms are completely covered it falls over when it rains and you also need to make people spread down the platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In nearly all European countries I have been to, I need to press a button to open the train door. In some countries the same need to be done to open the bus door as well. This practice does not exist in Asia, including Commonwealth countries, where all doors are centrally operated by the driver.

Er, yes it does. Door buttons (or handles) are present on many trains in Thailand and Malaysia to name two.

 

[HST274]

lengthens the dwell time at stations.

Several stations will often have no one depart the train therefore the dwell time would be quicker than the driver having to assume someone wants to get off. The cold is also a factor, especially when the doors are in the middle of the carriages (cough cough turbostar)

 

[miklcct]

Pre sliding doors we had to open the door with a handle anyway, so it's not new behaviour.

I am not old enough to have lived since the pre-electrification era so I have little idea how we opened the train door in the past, but the practice of having any sort of passenger-operated doors never existed there.

The equivalent of National Rail back there had 3 doors per carriage (converted to 5 afterwards in order to improve passenger flow and reduce dwell time) and ran in 3/6/9/12 carriages, and the underground had 5 doors per carriage and ran in 8 carriages.

 

[HSP 2]

I am not old enough to have lived since the pre-electrification era so I have little idea how we opened the train door in the past, but the practice of having any sort of passenger-operated doors never existed there.

The equivalent of National Rail back there had 3 doors per carriage (converted to 5 afterwards in order to improve passenger flow and reduce dwell time) and ran in 3/6/9/12 carriages, and the underground had 5 doors per carriage and ran in 8 carriages.

Please just think of slam door stock. The southern had plenty of them.

 

[Domh245]

Less wear and tear?! I don't believe so. In most cases, when the train stops at the station, all buttons on the train, inside and outside, are pressed at the same time by multiple passengers wanting to get on and off on the train. It's rare to see any of the train doors aren't pressed open at a station unless that station is in the middle of nowhere.

Much less wear and tear on the expensive and complicated door mechanisms - especially as contrary to your post you often don't see more than a handful of doors operated at stations, certainly off peak!

The ideal situation would be automatic opening based on time/location. Thameslink already has the latter (all doors open automatically through the core) - ideally you'd also have automatic door opening along peak flows (eg, into London during morning peak) where you might reasonably expect all doors to be used. SWR's new 701s were planned to have this along their 'core' routes (Waterloo-Surbiton/Richmond from memory) during peak hours.

 

[XAM2175]

You're clearly making a judgement based only on high-capacity 'metro' operations.

I think London Underground has already abolished this practice, but what's the point of introducing it at the first place?

LU have made a number of attempts to reintroduce it, as a matter of fact - if I recall correctly, passenger buttons have been provided at some point or another on every generation of stock from the D78s onwards. It just never catches on.

This practice does not exist in Asia, including Commonwealth countries, where all doors are centrally operated by the driver.

You really need to watch it with the sweeping generalisations. Even from my own experience I can say that you'll find passenger-operated doors on the Melbourne metropolitan system, Victorian regional system, Brisbane suburban system, Queensland regional system, and the New South Wales regional system. Only in Sydney will you find the that the doors are opened for you, and even then that's because - like Londoners - Sydney folk turned out to be incapable of understanding the dark art of pushing a button.

and it significantly lengthens the dwell time at stations

If you're basing this claim on experiences where you live now, I'm prepared to state with quite a lot of confidence that the apparent delay is caused by the guard having to confirm it's safe to release the doors. On this point I will state that in my experience guards on the continent and in Australia seem to be faster, but that's a separate discussion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With regard to London, the S-stock has buttons and they are in use outside of central London so as to avoid the aircon's effort being wasted.

 

[6Gman]

I am not old enough to have lived since the pre-electrification era so I have little idea how we opened the train door in the past, but the practice of having any sort of passenger-operated doors never existed there.

The equivalent of National Rail back there had 3 doors per carriage (converted to 5 afterwards in order to improve passenger flow and reduce dwell time) and ran in 3/6/9/12 carriages, and the underground had 5 doors per carriage and ran in 8 carriages.

I realise you think the country you used to live in seems to have done everything better than we do it here, but I can only assume you've never travelled from (say) Manchester to Crewe on a late night winter stopper worked by a 323. If so you would understand the advantage of doors only opening when necessary.

 

[Domh245]

With regard to London, the S-stock has buttons and they are in use outside of central London so as to avoid the aircon's effort being wasted.

I was under the impression that S stock opens all doors, all the time. Buttons are only there to re-open the doors, as they close automatically after ~30 seconds

 

[David Goddard]

Only opening the doors that passengers need to use definitely reduces wear and tear on the opening mechanisms, and goes some way to reduce the number of platform-train interface points in use at lesser used stations.
This also keeps the cold out in bad weather, and with modern air conditioned stock helps to maintain the internal ambiance in warm weather.
Why would you want to open all 24 pairs of doors on a 12 car 700 when the only passengers getting on or off were using the middle six?

 

[miklcct]

Even from my own experience I can say that you'll find passenger-operated doors on the Melbourne metropolitan system, Victorian regional system, Brisbane suburban system, Queensland regional system, and the New South Wales regional system.

These are not in Asia though - I have never seen buttons in Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Beijing, Singapore.

 

[DelW]

Less wear and tear?! I don't believe so. In most cases, when the train stops at the station, all buttons on the train, inside and outside, are pressed at the same time by multiple passengers wanting to get on and off on the train. It's rare to see any of the train doors aren't pressed open at a station unless that station is in the middle of nowhere.

I can only assume you haven't travelled very widely, as there are a great many places where that isn't the case, and which certainly aren't "in the middle of nowhere". At my local station, with mostly 12 coach trains so 24 doors, for off peak calls only about 4 to 6 doors are typically opened.

 

[yorksrob]

You don't want the doors opening for no reason in the middle of winter !

 

[Darandio]

These are not in Asia though - I have never seen buttons in Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Beijing, Singapore.

No buttons in these hugely populated cities has absolutely zero relevance to the railway here. What works in Hong Kong is in no way comparable to expecting all doors to open at 22:15 at Thornaby in December where only one person is alighting and nobody is boarding.

 

[bb21]

These are not in Asia though - I have never seen buttons in Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Beijing, Singapore.

You are not comparing apples with apples if you are comparing the volume of passenger flow at most National Rail stations with those at the locations you gave (which are mostly Metro operations if I may hazard a guess).

London Underground is your nearest comparison with those operations.

 

[XAM2175]

These are not in Asia though - I have never seen buttons in Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Beijing, Singapore.

I misread your original post as saying "Asia and the Commonwealth countries". Regardless, you're listing high-capacity metro systems which means that in the UK your comparison is valid only with London.

 

[emoaconr]

It's only really worthwhile having doors centrally controlled at stations or on systems where you can be almost certain of having passengers boarding or alighting at every station, at every door.

Hence why door opening is automatic on the Tube but not on National Rail (with the exception of the Thameslink core).

There are no passenger door open/close buttons on the 507/508 units used by Merseyrail, although this practice will end when the new stock comes into use which does feature a button (although when they were first built, they did have them which were later removed).

Regardless, I might be wrong in saying that also when the new 777s begin, doors will still be centrally opened/closed only when operating in underground stations on the network.

 

[AlterEgo]

Less wear and tear?! I don't believe so. In most cases, when the train stops at the station, all buttons on the train, inside and outside, are pressed at the same time by multiple passengers wanting to get on and off on the train. It's rare to see any of the train doors aren't pressed open at a station unless that station is in the middle of nowhere.

Less wear and tear on the doors, which are vastly more expensive to replace and repair.

I think your experiences in Britain on the rails are very limited if you believe that in most cases at a station call every single button on the train is pressed "by multiple passengers". Do a few All Line Rovers and come back and let us know what you find

 

[Typhoon]

It's only really worthwhile having doors centrally controlled at stations or on systems where you can be almost certain of having passengers boarding or alighting at every station, at every door.

Quite right. On stations like the one nearest to me, the steps leading to and from the platforms are at one end of the station. Almost everyone getting off is in the last two carriages simply to save the walk; there would be no need for at least half the doors to open at all. This arrangement is far from unique.

 

[flitwickbeds]

On the Thameslink 700s outside of the core, is it possible to program them to open when released by the driver?

I wondered this last summer when COVID was rife whether the door buttons - a high touch point - could be temporarily eliminated by either reprogramming the train to open on release everywhere, or whether the driver could manually do it everywhere if desired?

 

[miklcct]

I can only assume you haven't travelled very widely, as there are a great many places where that isn't the case, and which certainly aren't "in the middle of nowhere". At my local station, with mostly 12 coach trains so 24 doors, for off peak calls only about 4 to 6 doors are typically opened.

I have also travelled to multiple European cities including Helsinki, Stockholm, Prague, Kaliningrad, Riga, etc. I can say that in most of the cities where there is a railway system (including tram, underground, suburban rail), it's strange that less than half of the doors are pressed open at most of the stations in the city.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I have also travelled to multiple European cities including Helsinki, Stockholm, Prague, Kaliningrad, Riga, etc. I can say that in most of the cities where there is a railway system (including tram, underground, suburban rail), it's strange that less than half of the doors are pressed open at most of the stations in the city.

This seems to answer one of the questions that you asked in your original post:

What's the point having us to press a button to open train doors? I can only see it's bad because there is an additional layer of complexity, the risk of button failure, and it significantly lengthens the dwell time at stations. I think London Underground has already abolished this practice, but what's the point of introducing it at the first place?

In other words, why not automatically open all the doors? Because they're not all used at every station.

 

[Falcon1200]

I realise you think the country you used to live in seems to have done everything better than we do it here, but I can only assume you've never travelled from (say) Manchester to Crewe on a late night winter stopper worked by a 323. If so you would understand the advantage of doors only opening when necessary.

Nor joined a train at Neilston, where, thanks to generous turnround times, the train has sat in the platform for 20 minutes with all doors open and the wind howling through the train - Thankfully no longer the case since the demise of the Class 314 sets !