VauxhallandI
Established Member
I understand that and my response to that is what I put.I regard it as courtesy to respect the wishes of someone.
I understand that and my response to that is what I put.I regard it as courtesy to respect the wishes of someone.
I find that very surprising considering that we were not even getting 100% compliance before July 19. All the underground trains that i have been on since July 19 have been no where near 100% compliance.This morning, Central Line to Oxford Circus, Victoria Line to King's Cross St Pancras, 100% mask wearing on both trains in the carriage I was in (approx 20-25 people in both carriage)
I’ve had 100% compliance a few times on my tube travels in the past 2 days.I find that very surprising considering that we were not even getting 100% compliance before July 19. All the underground trains that i have been on since July 19 have been no where near 100% compliance.
Return was 100% as well (Victoria Line to Oxford Circus and Central to Notting Hill Gate). First time I've seen 100% and twice in one day. Just a coincidence I believeI find that very surprising considering that we were not even getting 100% compliance before July 19. All the underground trains that i have been on since July 19 have been no where near 100% compliance.
Why do you find mask-wearing so disappointing out of interest? It shows selflessness, whether some people think they work or not. I know you're very much against people enforcing them, and rightfully so, because it's a personal choice - but therefore why be against people choosing the other option? Especially when this option is the one done out of thoughtfulness to others.I'm due a visit to Morrisons soon; last week it was maybe 75% wearing masks and 25% not, so I hope to see more normality next time.
Most people are only wearing them because they think the majority will be, or they see the majority wearing them.
My local leisure centre says "Masks are optional" and hardly anyone wears them, which is great to see. Some of the masks wear visors, none wear masks. Even when masks were supposedly mandatory, the staff almost exclusively wore visors.
All the recent restaurants/pubs I visited recently seemed normal with almost 100% of customers not wearing masks. Last Thursday York station had just over 50% of people wearing masks around 5pm, but by 9pm the vast majority were not. And on Saturday night around 11pm there were huge crowds for the last trains from York and I don't think a single person was wearing a mask. A policewoman said that it had been a busy day but everyone was "behaving themselves". It was really great to see such big crowds not wearing masks again.
The LNER train home was great; no-one in my coach was wearing a mask. Much better than the train to London which was a real disappointment, with most people wearing masks.
There was no mention of fearfulness, or even deep concern. A slight worry after a long period of non-travel might, on the contrary, be both entirely rational and not unexpected.I can't see any courtesy in pandering to irrational fears; in fact as I see it as further entrenching those fears so in fact damaging.
If they are not fearful then why are they wearing a mask? Its completely irrelevant whether or not it is to be expected or not; its not rational if you look at the statistics which is entirely why it is pandering.There was no mention of fearfulness, or even deep concern. A slight worry after a long period of non-travel might, on the contrary, be both entirely rational and not unexpected.
It doesn't show selflessness it shows you are willing to play a part in continuing something pointless and damaging to many. So in fact it shows an element of weakness of conviction to reality.Why do you find mask-wearing so disappointing out of interest? It shows selflessness, whether some people think they work or not. I know you're very much against people enforcing them, and rightfully so, because it's a personal choice - but therefore why be against people choosing the other option? Especially when this option is the one done out of thoughtfulness to others.
I wonder what is so special about the four walls of a BankIn Town today, HSBC and Barclays had people waiting outside, and being let in one by one, and no more than 3 inside, I counted 18 waiting outside Barclays !
Because it's not normal. It's a sign of authoritarianism and support for, or fear of, the authoritarian regime.Why do you find mask-wearing so disappointing out of interest?
It doesn't. People generally wear masks for, broadly speaking, two potential reasons:It shows selflessness
This makes sense. If people think they don't work work, how is it "showing selflessness"?, whether some people think they work or not.
I am not against people being able to choose. For example my local leisure centre has a sign stating "face masks are optional" which is absolutely spot on. I am against the messaging of the likes of LNER, which is appalling. I do support the right for each person to make their own choice but I do NOT support claims such as "wearing one shows compassion/consideration/selflessness"; that is nonsense and is not giving people the choice.I know you're very much against people enforcing them, and rightfully so, because it's a personal choice - but therefore why be against people choosing the other option?
It really isn't; see above. When are people who are pro-mask going to start being thoughtful towards deaf people? Weeks? Months? Years?!Especially when this option is the one done out of thoughtfulness to others.
Because people feel under pressure; people don't want to be the only ones not doing it.If they are not fearful then why are they wearing a mask? Its completely irrelevant whether or not it is to be expected or not; its not rational if you look at the statistics which is entirely why it is pandering.
I completely agreeIt doesn't show selflessness it shows you are willing to play a part in continuing something pointless and damaging to many. So in fact it shows an element of weakness of conviction to reality.
Indeed; some people even delight in taking photos of themselves in empty train carriages and publishing the images.Avatars with masks on are the worst symbol of virtue signalling we see.
Yes this is the height of virtue signalling.Not sure if this is the right thread but I am bored of people posting on the LNER twitter feed pics of themselves wearing masks and telling us all how good they are.
Madness.In Town today, HSBC and Barclays had people waiting outside, and being let in one by one, and no more than 3 inside, I counted 18 waiting outside Barclays !
Today on Met and Jubilee very high compliance and no difference to before 19 JulyReturn was 100% as well (Victoria Line to Oxford Circus and Central to Notting Hill Gate). First time I've seen 100% and twice in one day. Just a coincidence I believe
I’d add a third, which you alluded to later:It doesn't. People generally wear masks for, broadly speaking, two potential reasons:
1) Because they think they are effective and don't trust the vaccines;
2) Not because they want to, but because they think others are likely to be wearing a mask and don't want to stand out.
Clearly most people are in category 2 and have no desire to wear one but feel pressured into doing so. That was me, and to comply with the law, until 19th July.
3) Because they want others to see them doing something generally perceived as “the right thing” Or “showing consideration”.Yes this is the height of virtue signalling.
Pro-maskers have effectively become a cult here, as in the USA. This makes me want to push back even more. The more they snarl at us, the more they pressure us, the more determined I am not to give in, and get our normality back.
There really is an unpleasant undercurrent in society where people who are being normal are portrayed as bad or uncaring people.There really is an unpleasant undercurrent on this forum where people doing what they feel is the right thing is portrayed as bad or ridiculed.
It is also apparent that several who criticise people who they perceive as being "inconsiderate" of others, just for acting normally (!), are the same people who have been happy to discriminate against people throughout this pandemic, for a wide variety of reasons.It is also apparent that several who criticise people who they perceive as having an irrational fear of a virus and describe showing them some consideration as pandering are the same people who think having a fear of a mask is perfectly normal and not showing them consideration is discrimination.
There really is an unpleasant undercurrent on this forum where people doing what they feel is the right thing is portrayed as bad or ridiculed.
It is also apparent that several who criticise people who they perceive as having an irrational fear of a virus and describe showing them some consideration as pandering are the same people who think having a fear of a mask is perfectly normal and not showing them consideration is discrimination.
One could argue they've failed the test twice then; firstly with masks then by using the app.I have generally noticed a lot lower compliance, (even on LNER) - I think more people will stop wearing them when they realize that they won't be struck by lightning (or when they need to buy another pack). But I am much happier that I can go about my business without having anyone challenge me now. You still get the "they can't all be exempt", which I normally reply "why not?" rarely getting an answer.
One thing I have noticed on small business is the "ping-demic". I lot of the people in these business are not actually scared of Covid itself, but more fearful of their business getting shut down for 10 days. The are clinging onto the mask as "It isn't doing any harm and might help". I can have a bit of sympathy with these and see what happens when the rules change in August. But as it stands if person A gets it, then person B & C needs to isolate, when you only have 3 members of staff you are out of business for 10 days, even if person A got it from something totally unrelated to the shop. I think they know in their hearts the mask makes no difference, but they are caught in the flock of sheep. One person I know who is self employed but visits people is mega paranoid. But I again I think this is more they can't work for 10 days if they get it and they have lost income as a result (and clients if they do elsewhere). Be interesting to see if mid-August will see another drop in people wearing masks.
I look left and right before crossing the road. Does that make me fearful? No, it does not, it just shows I'm being cautious and thus entirely rational. Indeed, to not do so would be to throw caution to the wind and be absolutely irrational, as no doubt the coroner would conclude at my inquest. Fearful = full of fear, which nobody has any right to conclude about a complete stranger minding their own business and showing no obvious sign of it.If they are not fearful then why are they wearing a mask? Its completely irrelevant whether or not it is to be expected or not; its not rational if you look at the statistics which is entirely why it is pandering.
A terrbile analogy. If you get hit by a car you my well die or be seriously injured; if you get covid you have a 99.8% chance of survival and higher for certain people. Oh and looking left and right is a pretty dam good risk mitigation activity; a mask is not.I look left and right before crossing the road. Does that make me fearful? No, it does not, it just shows I'm being cautious and thus entirely rational. Indeed, to not do so would be to throw caution to the wind and be absolutely irrational, as no doubt the coroner would conclude at my inquest. Fearful = full of fear, which nobody has any right to conclude about a complete stranger minding their own business and showing no obvious sign of it.
Two wrongs do not make a right. Since the 19th, I wear a mask when out where someone asks me to in a reasonable manner, out of consideration to them or those they are asking on behalf of. It is in the same vein that, if at Glyndebourne (I wish!), I'd wear black tie - not because I consider it a necessity, but because it is a request. To date, I've not personally encountered a peremptory demand for one; I'll judge that as I find it.There really is an unpleasant undercurrent in society where people who are being normal are portrayed as bad or uncaring people.There really is an unpleasant undercurrent on this forum where people doing what they feel is the right thing is portrayed as bad or ridiculed.
It is also apparent that several who criticise people who they perceive as having an irrational fear of a virus and describe showing them some consideration as pandering are the same people who think having a fear of a mask is perfectly normal and not showing them consideration is discrimination.
Until this undercurrent is quashed, I'm not going to cave into them, and I am going to stand up for what I believe is right. The more they try to push their agenda, the more I will push back.
Your Glyndebourne analogy is terrible as well - Do we have to go to there to travel or get food etc?Two wrongs do not make a right. Since the 19th, I wear a mask when out where someone asks me to in a reasonable manner, out of consideration to them or those they are asking on behalf of. It is in the same vein that, if at Glyndebourne (I wish!), I'd wear black tie - not because I consider it a necessity, but because it is a request. To date, I've not personally encountered a peremptory demand for one; I'll judge that as I find it.
But I share the view of @Busaholic that there are some for whom this is a matter of confrontation, who seem to wish to crush the opposition to their chosen response rather than acknowledge and engage with it. I'd even go so far as to call it an authoritarian response.
Crushing the opposition??Two wrongs do not make a right. Since the 19th, I wear a mask when out where someone asks me to in a reasonable manner, out of consideration to them or those they are asking on behalf of. It is in the same vein that, if at Glyndebourne (I wish!), I'd wear black tie - not because I consider it a necessity, but because it is a request. To date, I've not personally encountered a peremptory demand for one; I'll judge that as I find it.
But I share the view of @Busaholic that there are some for whom this is a matter of confrontation, who seem to wish to crush the opposition to their chosen response rather than acknowledge and engage with it. I'd even go so far as to call it an authoritarian response.
I still feel awkward in that following conversation,Two wrongs do not make a right. Since the 19th, I wear a mask when out where someone asks me to in a reasonable manner, out of consideration to them or those they are asking on behalf of. It is in the same vein that, if at Glyndebourne (I wish!), I'd wear black tie - not because I consider it a necessity, but because it is a request. To date, I've not personally encountered a peremptory demand for one; I'll judge that as I find it.
But I share the view of @Busaholic that there are some for whom this is a matter of confrontation, who seem to wish to crush the opposition to their chosen response rather than acknowledge and engage with it. I'd even go so far as to call it an authoritarian response.