Caledonian Sleeper

[XAM2175]

There is nothing on the website or booking facilities to indicate that the ability to use the Caledonian Sleeper as a day train is returning or that they will offer more than eleven seats in the seated coach overnight.

I just had a look on RTT and the Fort William portion is loaded as not taking intermediate passengers until the end of the current timetable (12 Dec). Although obviously this could be varied, it does suggest little intent to change.

Did they not respond to an inquiry a week or two ago that they would be reviewing the decision following the announcement this morning? If that's the case then we might hear more in the next few days.

 

[najaB]

And how does it leave Waverley given that the reason it’s not running to Aberdeen is a shortage of crew?

Ah, right. I forgot that they just leave the train sitting at the platform all day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah, right. I forgot that they just leave the train sitting at the platform all day.

You can run without passengers DOO. The issue is guards.

 

[43096]

Ah, right. I forgot that they just leave the train sitting at the platform all day.

No guard = no punters on board. Stop trying to be clever and admit it’s an idea that doesn’t work.

 

[najaB]

You can run without passengers DOO. The issue is guards.

I know. As I noted above though it is a lot easier to source a guard for 30 minutes than it is for three+ hours.

 

[43096]

I know. As I noted above though it is a lot easier to source a guard for 30 minutes than it is for three+ hours.

Where are you sourcing that guard (with relevant competencies) from?

 

[najaB]

Where are you sourcing that guard (with relevant competencies) from?

As noted above, the overtime ban will kibosh this but in a world where overtime is a thing, CS have a pool of guards.

 

[6Z09]

As noted above, the overtime ban will kibosh this but in a world where overtime is a thing, CS have a pool of guards.

They have a pool of guards, but still seem to rely on them to work their rest days, hence their current difficulties.
Looks like Aberdeen's Friday morning arrival is free of Guests again, according to Real Time Trains !

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I see a few posts from earlier this week asking about the delayed boarding on Monday night.

It's certainly not the fault of the staff.

They had a technical issue on the southbound Highlander on Sunday night which meant they had to swap the rakes round at Wembley depot during Monday.

That took a bit of time to effect as it's not just a matter of sending the two rakes out on the opposite diagrams; there's all the setting up to do as well.

Having done all that, the depot exit was then blocked by another train for a while so they then had the situation that not only was the stock for the Highlander late out but that would knock on to the Lowlander because of the way the locomotive diagrams work.

On top of that, it took longer than expected to fix the technical issue with the second rake.

That's why Monday night was particularly bad at Euston, but it is very unfair to pin the blame on the CS staff.

Nobody seems to have mentioned that the Tuesday night departures were all boarded on time... I know that bad news is more readable, but we should keep the disruption in perspective.



Edited to sort out something that autocorrupt did when I was originally posting ( which is why I rarely post from my phone!!! ).

 

[Gonzoiku]

Thank you for the clarification, Peter.

GZ

 

[XAM2175]

A quick question - I notice that no advance tickets are ever made available for the double rooms. Can I presume then that the price for them will always be the same regardless of day or season or anything else like that?

 

[island]

Probably – there’s so few of them that they won’t see a need to discount.

 

[D6130]

Although I follow this thread with great interest - and usually some dismay - I rarely contribute to it, as I haven't yet travelled on it. However, I would like to report that a friend travelled from Glasgow to London on the Lowlander on Tuesday night and had a good night's sleep and a punctual journey with no issues whatsoever. Both he and I are aware, however, that most of the problems seem to affect the Highlander services, which are obviously a much more complicated operation, with all the attendant )) complexities of locomotive, stock and traincrew rostering, plus the actual operations on the night.

 

[Statto]

I see a few posts from earlier this week asking about the delayed boarding on Monday night.

It's certainly not the fault of the staff.

They had a technical issue on the southbound Highlander on Sunday night which meant they had to swap the rakes round at Wembley depot during Monday.

That took a bit of time to effect as it's not just a matter of sending the two rakes out on the opposite diagrams; there's all the setting up to do as well.

Having done all that, the depot exit was then blocked by another train for a while so they then had the situation that not only was the stock for the Highlander late out but that would knock on to the Lowlander because of the way the locomotive diagrams work.

On top of that, it took longer than expected to fix the technical issue with the second rake.

That's why Monday night was particularly bad at Euston, but it is very unfair to pin the blame on the CS staff.

Nobody seems to have mentioned that the Tuesday night departures were all boarded on time... I know that bad news is more reasonable, but we should keep the disruption in perspective.

The issue is that CS gave the rather vague, delayed due to operational issues, as a reason the sleeper was delayed Monday night, so some speculated it was the staff, had CS gave the real reason for the delay then none of that would have occurred.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Whilst pleading guilty as charged here, what is the reason for CS or indeed any operator not telling passengers the real reason for stuff going wrong? A few would understand it, the majority would be none the wiser but what I'm sure that 100% of the affected passengers would feel that the train company they had travelled or were travelling or about travel with and had probably spent quite a chunk of cash on was treating them like real people not just nuisances that have to be swatted away like a plague of summer insects

 

[Nova1]

Whilst pleading guilty as charged here, what is the reason for CS or indeed any operator not telling passengers the real reason for stuff going wrong? A few would understand it, the majority would be none the wiser but what I'm sure that 100% of the affected passengers would feel that the train company they had travelled or were travelling or about travel with and had probably spent quite a chunk of cash on was treating them like real people not just nuisances that have to be swatted away like a plague of summer insects

How can CS actually give clear delay reasoning beyond "a technical issue" for issues with units at the depot/other depot issues? If they wanted to put any more detail it would be too confusing for regular folk and too complicated for station signage etc.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Wouldn't be difficult to display technical difficulties with the train on the station monitors etc but on platforms like Facebook and their website give us a slightly more detailed explanation so that those who were really interested could at least be by respected. Far too much of this operational difficulties excuse being used for anything from a serious technical problem to a non delivery of of tea bags for the buffet car. I see this situation from two sides, one as an enthusiast who's always keen to know why something has gone wrong but also as someone who has spent his entire working life dealing with customers and and I have always been honest with them and if if the toilet is blocked they get told that the toilet is blocked although admittedly that's a bad example for what I do or did before the pandemic

 

[35B]

How can CS actually give clear delay reasoning beyond "a technical issue" for issues with units at the depot/other depot issues? If they wanted to put any more detail it would be too confusing for regular folk and too complicated for station signage etc.

Network Rail have used their Twitter feed very effectively to describe what's really happened in some incidents; assuming that it can't be done or understood is rather debateable.

Within the constraints of departure boards phrases like "fault with the train", "fault with with the track", or "staff shortfall" would be honest, allow all except the most informed to feel they understand something of what's happening, and not require huge amounts of work.

 

[SandsofEss]

A positive report on the Highlander here.

I approached our journey last night with some trepidation having followed the forum closely over the past month. I’m pleased to say all went smoothly.

The room service menu was available, albeit limited (and sans the free options for kids mentioned on the website).

An on time arrival, and the rooms were all in good working order. The pillow spray was a particular favourite.

The onboard staff also explained that the club car is reopening from Monday.

 

[MrEd]

A positive report on the Highlander here.

I approached our journey last night with some trepidation having followed the forum closely over the past month. I’m pleased to say all went smoothly.

The room service menu was available, albeit limited (and sans the free options for kids mentioned on the website).

An on time arrival, and the rooms were all in good working order. The pillow spray was a particular favourite.

The onboard staff also explained that the club car is reopening from Monday.

How will it work with masks in the club car? Presumably, as Scottish law will apply on the sleeper in both directions, you’ll need to wear one until seated as you would in a pub/restaurant etc?

I wonder if it will be restricted capacity, or require booking? It’ll be interesting to see what CS do.

 

[SandsofEss]

I don’t know about masks, but the attendant I spoke with said they’d be operating with reduced capacity and so will be booking guests in for half hour slots (for breakfast at least).

 

[MrEd]

I don’t know about masks, but the attendant I spoke with said they’d be operating with reduced capacity and so will be booking guests in for half hour slots (for breakfast at least).

I thought that might be the case. I wonder if it might be restricted to first class passengers, at least initially?

 

[island]

How will it work with masks in the club car? Presumably, as Scottish law will apply on the sleeper in both directions, you’ll need to wear one until seated as you would in a pub/restaurant etc?

I wonder if it will be restricted capacity, or require booking? It’ll be interesting to see what CS do.

Under Scots law you'll need to have your mask on except when actively eating/drinking, as the club car is (part of) a train, not a pub.

 

[Bill57p9]

Under Scots law you'll need to have your mask on except when actively eating/drinking, as the club car is (part of) a train, not a pub.

It may be up for legal debate. After all the club car is a licensed premises and therefore comes under hospitality legislation.

I was on an SRPS railtour late last month. Within Scotland face coverings were not mandatory whilst seated at your assigned table. Within England face coverings were advised but not mandatory whilst moving around the train.
Therefore I believe it fell under "hospitality" rules in Scotland AND followed the local rules. Though of course SRPS railtours are operated by West Coast Railways, so technically the TOC is English.

 

[tspaul26]

It may be up for legal debate. After all the club car is a licensed premises and therefore comes under hospitality legislation.

A premises licence is not required for the Sleeper’s passenger operations.

 

[island]

It may be up for legal debate. After all the club car is a licensed premises and therefore comes under hospitality legislation.

No it isn’t. Trains are exempt from licensing laws (with respect to the sale of alcohol).

 

[MrEd]

Under Scots law you'll need to have your mask on except when actively eating/drinking, as the club car is (part of) a train, not a pub.

Presumably the alcohol ban will also apply then, meaning that it will be ‘dry’ (at least initially)? Or is that being ended?

 

[najaB]

Presumably the alcohol ban will also apply then, meaning that it will be ‘dry’ (at least initially)? Or is that being ended?

Pretty sure that won't apply any more.

 

[Mike395]

I got alcohol on a room service basis back in May, so I'd be very surprised if the Club Car wasn't allowed to serve it.

 

[island]

Presumably the alcohol ban will also apply then, meaning that it will be ‘dry’ (at least initially)? Or is that being ended?

If you’re referring to the ban on carrying alcohol visibly on trains between 2100-1000, that is a ScotRail policy so would not apply on CS.