Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

[Falcon1200]

your second complaint is that that you cannot travel for free

Believe me, I have no complaints about having free travel (although it clearly irks you), just disappointment that a journey opportunity for us, and revenue for Avanti, has gone.

However I would suggest that Avanti probably haven't designed the new service with travel facilities holders in mind.

That is indeed exactly the issue.

 

[Starmill]

That is indeed exactly the issue.

Although presumably it's a feature, not an issue.

 

[Butts]

My preference is to travel in First Class with my relative having bought a ticket for them, however as Avanti no longer offer reasonably-priced Advance First Class fares my second preference would be to travel in Standard Premium, again having bought a suitable ticket for my relative. However as Avanti have expressly stated that staff travel facilities are banned in Standard Premium, that option is not open to us either (unless of course we sat in separate coaches, which I will not subject a 91-year old to).

Effectively the introduction of SP has resulted in a substantial price increase by stealth of 1st Class Advanced Tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although presumably it's a feature, not an issue.

I don't entirely get why a Priv 1st wouldn't be valid in SP, as conventionally First Class tickets are always valid in Standard. Are they not?

 

[Bald Rick]

I don't entirely get why a Priv 1st wouldn't be valid in SP, as conventionally First Class tickets are always valid in Standard. Are they not?

The staff travel restrictions guide specifically states that “at the moment” Standard Premium is not available to holders of any Staff Travel Facilities.

 

[Starmill]

I don't entirely get why a Priv 1st wouldn't be valid in SP, as conventionally First Class tickets are always valid in Standard. Are they not?

Maybe it will change as the product matures. Or maybe a supplement for staff pass users will become available. But even if it doesn't nobody is being excluded from booking it in the normal way.

 

[Falcon1200]

Maybe it will change as the product matures. Or maybe a supplement for staff pass users will become available.

Agree, hopefully a solution can be found which suits all passengers and without loss of revenue to Avanti.

 

[Mojo]

Health Secretary Sajid Javid travelled in Standard Premium on Thursday whilst he was on his way to open a new cancer centre in Cumbria.

 

[AlterEgo]

Health Secretary Sajid Javid travelled in Standard Premium on Thursday whilst he was on his way to open a new cancer centre in Cumbria.

Without removing the antimacassar this time! A favourite trick of politicians.

 

[Blinkbonny]

Pre-Covid I was a fairly regular leisure traveller up the West Coast to Scotland and other points North. As a rail enthusiast, the train journey was half (if not the major!) part of the attraction. I'd make at least a dozen such trips a year.

Just been checking some old tickets. December 2019: Coventry to Edinburgh with Railcard - First Class Advance £38

Just checked for this Autumn: October 2021: Coventry to Edinburgh with Railcard - First Class Advance £75.80

Just about twice as much - and obviously it's an even bigger increase for those without a railcard.

I won't be paying it, and I won't be travelling Standard Class, or paying a Standard Premier supplement either (£25 I believe). I just won't go. I probably won't even bother renewing my Railcard either. I'll just find another leisure activity.

Certainly I was never aware of taking up valuable space on any of my trains. In fact far, far from it!

But presumably Avanti are glad to see the back of me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But I'm not sure what the relevance of SP is to this. Avanti may well have increased fares without it.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Apologies for probable repetition, but...

Looking at the 10:58 Preston to London on Sunday 26th September, prices for singles Preston to London are:

Standard Class- £33.90
Standard Premium- £58.80
First Class- £123.60- just under £65 extra than Premium/just under £90 extra than Standard Class.

I'd be surprised if Avanti manage to fill First Class at weekends with the substantial price premiums for it.

 

[AlterEgo]

We still haven't seen the "enhanced" first class service suggested by Avanti. When is that coming in?

 

[Nova1]

I'd be surprised if Avanti manage to fill First Class at weekends with the substantial price premiums for it.

There will always be a select few that always travel first class. The more wealthy among us will just always pay for 1st class, they won't bother checking if it's "worth it"

Also businesses who pay for their employees on work to travel in first will just stump up the price for those obnoxious anytime any permitted 1st tickets.

 

[AlterEgo]

Also businesses who pay for their employees on work to travel in first will just stump up the price for those obnoxious anytime any permitted 1st tickets.

What sort of businesses do that?

 

[ainsworth74]

We still haven't seen the "enhanced" first class service suggested by Avanti. When is that coming in?

I feel like this is the missing piece here. Right now 1st class seems horrendously overpriced for what it is. I'd argue even pre-covid it was overpriced. But depending on what the "enhanced" service actually looks like £123.60 for Preston to London might start to sound more reasonable. But we've only got half the picture at the moment.

 

[Jimini]

What sort of businesses do that?

Mine does if it’s scheduled to take longer than two hours end to end. Same with flights, but the threshold is eight hours for that.

 

[Bishopstone]

I feel like this is the missing piece here. Right now 1st class seems horrendously overpriced for what it is. I'd argue even pre-covid it was overpriced. But depending on what the "enhanced" service actually looks like £123.60 for Preston to London might start to sound more reasonable. But we've only got half the picture at the moment.

Also depends upon whether the enhanced offer is delivered consistently, or whether Avanti intend to deploy the ‘subject to availability, and complimentary’ line, as they hand you some cheese spread in lieu of an advertised plated meal.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also depends upon whether the enhanced offer is delivered consistently, or whether Avanti intend to deploy the ‘subject to availability, and complimentary’ line, as they hand you some cheese spread in lieu of an advertised plated meal.

It will be very difficult to push that line (which I believe to be legally dubious anyway) if Standard Premium is the same thing minus the catering.

 

[BluePenguin]

Mine does if it’s scheduled to take longer than two hours end to end. Same with flights, but the threshold is eight hours for that.

We should apply to work for you then perhaps, the clients must be high ticket and wealthy ones..

First Class has its place on the railway and is fantastic when done right. Although the current offering is very very average. Surely even those passengers who are not price sensitive expect more than cheese and biscuits plus a cup of tea.

One thing that would make the experience more premium would be space for luggage next you - like in the Heathrow Express. If Standard Premium is about having more space, then this should be considered.

 

[jon0844]

There will always be a select few that always travel first class. The more wealthy among us will just always pay for 1st class, they won't bother checking if it's "worth it"

Also businesses who pay for their employees on work to travel in first will just stump up the price for those obnoxious anytime any permitted 1st tickets.

I get that there are people who will just pay for first class because they can easily afford it, even doing so to travel at the front of a class 700, but the second bit...?

I doubt that many businesses will pay for first class travel these days, but an employee might choose to upgrade themselves to be more productive (or to rest) and Standard Premier gives that option, just as people opt for Weekend First as 'treat' (which on a weekend is pretty much the same as Standard Premier as the food/drink you get is minimal).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

We still haven't seen the "enhanced" first class service suggested by Avanti. When is that coming in?

Train manager on my service today told me October

 

[XAM2175]

But presumably Avanti are glad to see the back of me.

If they can sell to somebody else for £78 a seat for which you're only prepared to pay £38 then yeah, they'll happily leave you behind.

All operators should be pricing first class in a way that maximises revenue, especially in this time of unprecedented public subsidy.

 

[Blinkbonny]

But where will they come from? First Class was fairly/very empty at £38.

If ever there was any over-crowding going on (which - apart from trains from Euston - I rarely saw) it would have been back in Standard - which presumably will now become even busier.

 

[Ianno87]

I get that there are people who will just pay for first class because they can easily afford it, even doing so to travel at the front of a class 700, but the second bit...?

I doubt that many businesses will pay for first class travel these days, but an employee might choose to upgrade themselves to be more productive (or to rest) and Standard Premier gives that option, just as people opt for Weekend First as 'treat' (which on a weekend is pretty much the same as Standard Premier as the food/drink you get is minimal).

I get the impression that Chiltern’s Business Zone was popular for that reason - travelling for business on a Standard Class ticket, but people self-upgrading at their own relatively modest expense.

 

[Blinkbonny]

But I'm not sure what the relevance of SP is to this. Avanti may well have increased fares without it.

What by a 100%?

Standard fares seem much the same.

 

[philthetube]

Just to pick up on this point, which you do mention very regularly on here.


We cannot help our height or how tall we are. But with respect, surely in the long run it would be considerably cheaper to lose weight rather than pay for a larger seat. Less money spent on food = less need for Standard Premium. There is no shame in being fat, but it can come at a price. Be it having to pay for a larger seat on a train or for multiple on a plane.

I appreciate and realise it is not as simple as this but slim people can bulk up as easily as larger people can slim down, with enough effort. There are plenty of tall and slim people who manage their weight very well.

Wow, light the blue touch paper and retire.

 

[Falcon1200]

Also businesses who pay for their employees on work to travel in first will just stump up the price for those obnoxious anytime any permitted 1st tickets.

What sort of businesses do that?

My daughter's boss's business does that ! However, as he travels to attend the House of Lords, at the end of the day it is the taxpayer stumping up.

 

[jfollows]

What sort of businesses do that?

I've done work for a US pharmaceutical company which had this rule (EDIT That's to say, claim first class rail travel on expenses for journeys longer than 2 hours in duration), slightly annoying I guess in that I travelled from Wilmslow to London which is something like 1h56m.

When I set up my own company and was its sole employee, I allowed myself to claim expenses up to the maximum allowed by the taxman, so full fare first class rail tickets weren't excluded. Funnily enough, I never actually stumped up the full fare first class price for a Wilmslow-London return. I think I might have done so only once, first class full open return Wilmslow-Liverpool, but that's a different order of magnitude. Most of the rest of the time I bought first class advance fares, and didn't have any argument with myself when claiming expenses.

 

[38Cto15E]

Effectively the introduction of SP has resulted in a substantial price increase by stealth of 1st Class Advanced Tickets.

Indeed Butts, I was looking at going to Glasgow from the Midlands in First, much cheaper with LNER from Newark.