RMT threaten strike action on.........Thameslink

[sd0733]

Does the RMT do anything else apart from declare strike action?!

Yes plenty, they issue press releases harking back to the 1970s, make a long list of "demands" and wont stop until Total nationalisation happens even if its not what most staff wish for.
Its.quite honestly cringeworthy and embarrassing and totally undermines any genuine grievances and hides the often good work thats done.
And i say that as a member so dread to think what impression it gives to the general public! Certainly self damaging how theyre going especially recently.

At my Toc there are units which fail legionaires testing, generally seems to be 158s for some reason but the toilets are immediately locked once the results are known and they are then swapped out and head to the depot for bleaching. Seems to have died down since passenger numbers picked up anyway now theyre.used.more again

 

[Energy]

Clearly the RMT must have gotten bored and decided they would like to strike again for any reason.

 

[Kite159]

All it does is shout out that rail travel is "unsafe" and you will be safer driving etc.

One of the first jobs where I work when coming back into a building which has been closed for a couple weeks due to annual leave is to ensure all taps are run for a couple minutes (even those taps which never get used due to being in awkward locations), all toilets flushed, to get rid of any legionella bacteria which might have started growing during the period of standing water.

 

[Aictos]

Clearly the RMT must have gotten bored and decided they would like to strike again for any reason.

That isn't the case of all and is more akin to a Conservative Anti Union member then a member of a rail forum.

They raised concerns with TL about Legionaires, the initial response from TL wasn't good enough so the RMT advised TL that because of this they were now in dispute with them which I believe has now been resolved but only because the RMT made their point clear.

If the RMT did nothing like some on here would like then they wouldn't be doing their job making the workplace safe for their members or Joe Public.

 

[ggbrf]

Another strike on the railway. Crack on RMT

 

[TFN]

WCs in some units actually have signage instructing people to do this, though I always thought it was something to do with the vacuum flush.

All Class 700 toilets do have a sticker next to the flush button stating this (as far as I remember).

Reading that notice gave me a habit to close the lids on all train toilets!

 

[zwk500]

All Class 700 toilets do have a sticker next to the flush button stating this (as far as I remember).

Reading that notice gave me a habit to close the lids on all train toilets!

Don't most new trains now place the flush button behind the lid when open, so that you have to close it to flush?

 

[TFN]

Don't most new trains now place the flush button behind the lid when open, so that you have to close it to flush?

Definitely not on a 700 or neither a 387 which are recent trains built by different companies.

I dont think people would flush the toilet if the flush was hidden behind the lid xD

 

[riceuten]

Oh, a bash the RMT thread. How unpredictable

 

[Horizon22]

Oh, a bash the RMT thread. How unpredictable

Having read the thread, what do you think is currently a valid concern to warrant a industrial dispute by the RMT? And why should the RMT not be criticised for taking this stance with wider battles out there?

 

[physics34]

The way the RMT have acted over the past few years, anyone would think they want to stigmatise and eventually kill off the industry their members rely on.
I am not ordinarily against unions but the actions specifically of the RMT do seem rather bizarre.

Agree, the don't seem to want to get the public on their side. They need to pick their battles wisely, but they rarely do.

 

[Robertj21a]

Agree, the don't seem to want to get the public on their side. They need to pick their battles wisely, but they rarely do.

They live back in the 1980s, blinkered to the real world, and don't care about any impact they may have on others.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Yes plenty, they issue press releases harking back to the 1970s, make a long list of "demands" and wont stop until Total nationalisation happens even if its not what most staff wish for.
Its.quite honestly cringeworthy and embarrassing and totally undermines any genuine grievances and hides the often good work thats done.
And i say that as a member so dread to think what impression it gives to the general public! Certainly self damaging how theyre going especially recently.

Out of curiosity, if the RMT are so bad (and how you describe them is pretty much exactly my impression of them), why would you be a member of it?

 

[sd0733]

Out of curiosity, if the RMT are so bad (and how you describe them is pretty much exactly my impression of them), why would you be a member of it?

At a local level they are really good. They do a tonne of good, useful stuff, the local reps quietly get on with a multitude of tasks for us and are a really useful group for asking for help and assistance about all sorts of things.

Unfortunately theres a gulf to national level where the top brass just want to use press releases to sound off about utterly ridiculous things, constantly put the industry down as a dirty, dangerous, ripoff run by "barons and fat cats". There are many genuine grievances that have happened and certainly will happen but they are lost in the constant barrage of press releases which nobody really relates to due to the way they are put across and the language used.

From conversations at work a lot feel the same, local, Brilliant and wouldnt be without but national is a different beast.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

At a local level they are really good. They do a tonne of good, useful stuff, the local reps quietly get on with a multitude of tasks for us and are a really useful group for asking for help and assistance about all sorts of things.

Unfortunately theres a gulf to national level where the top brass just want to use press releases to sound off about utterly ridiculous things, constantly put the industry down as a dirty, dangerous, ripoff run by "barons and fat cats". There are many genuine grievances that have happened and certainly will happen but they are lost in the constant barrage of press releases which nobody really relates to due to the way they are put across and the language used.

From conversations at work a lot feel the same, local, Brilliant and wouldnt be without but national is a different beast.

Thanks for the info, that's interesting to know.

But it begs a follow-up question. If many members feel the same way, are there no attempts within the membership to replace the RMT leadership with more sensible people, or to change how the RMT behaves on a national level? Doesn't the RMT have some kind of internal democratic structure to allow policy to be challenged?

 

[717001]

They raised concerns with TL about Legionaires, the initial response from TL wasn't good enough so the RMT advised TL that because of this they were now in dispute with them which I believe has now been resolved but only because the RMT made their point clear.

If it has been resolved, it's a pity that the RMT haven't put out a further press release (none visible on their website currently). It could provide reassurance to passengers.

 

[Bald Rick]

From conversations at work a lot feel the same, local, Brilliant and wouldnt be without but national is a different beast.

That is my experience too, dealing with the RMT over the years at local level. As ever, there are always a few local reps who are less than helpful, but generally they are very good.

Thanks for the info, that's interesting to know.

But it begs a follow-up question. If many members feel the same way, are there no attempts within the membership to replace the RMT leadership with more sensible people, or to change how the RMT behaves on a national level? Doesn't the RMT have some kind of internal democratic structure to allow policy to be challenged?

It’s the classsic issue - people doing good work at local level see a very different ‘club’ above them and don’t want to step up. (It’s similar in local politics). I also sense that there is an element of selecting people for senior positions that share the ‘correct’ views.

I do wonder what would happen if there was a breakaway union with a more reasonable outlook. Of course it won’t happen due to the cash position.

 

[Need2]

3 members of staff were as a result off work on sick leave having contracted the disease.

Strange that this information has only been seen by you, no mention of it anywhere else.

With the Class 700s if anyone isn't familiar with them you cannot lock the standard toilets out of service as they can be easily reopened with a screwdriver or t key and plenty of passengers have them on them whereas if you lock the accessible toilet out of use you cannot force it open if it's been locked shut.

Utter poppy cock!
You are correct in the methods of locking doors but are you being serious that passengers are in the habit of going around and opening locked out toilet doors?

 

[Bletchleyite]

With the Class 700s if anyone isn't familiar with them you cannot lock the standard toilets out of service as they can be easily reopened with a screwdriver or t key and plenty of passengers have them on them whereas if you lock the accessible toilet out of use you cannot force it open if it's been locked shut.

If you've got a T key you can also do all sorts of other things on trains which would be a lot more dangerous, like keying in a guard's panel and releasing the doors. So if a T key isn't considered enough, the RMT needs to be pushing for a national strike requiring all T key locks to be swapped for something more secure.

 

[Darandio]

Again with the anti union posting, the RMT first informed it's members on the 6th August of three Class 700s had been infected with the disease and 3 members of staff were as a result off work on sick leave having contracted the disease.

So the RMT simply forgot to mention this in their first press release over two weeks later? It was pretty integral to their argument, don't you think?

With the Class 700s if anyone isn't familiar with them you cannot lock the standard toilets out of service as they can be easily reopened with a screwdriver or t key and plenty of passengers have them on them whereas if you lock the accessible toilet out of use you cannot force it open if it's been locked shut.

You might have the odd rare enthusiast walking around with a T key because it makes them feel important. Plenty though? Nah, there aren't plenty of passengers walking around with screwdrivers and T keys waiting to unlock toilet doors.

 

[DNCharingX]

Umm because the RMT counts amongst it's members the train cleaners and fitters who have to work around or in the toilets every day.

As to TL, they're actually doing something positive which the RMT can't be blamed for but rather should be thanked for raising a health and safety issue as such because of the RMT concerns, TL are completely draining, bleaching and refilling any affected toilet but they're also been in touch with the ORR and will continue to engage with Health and Safety Union Reps eg RMT.

TL are also going to be testing ALL 115 Class 700s over the next 4 weeks with those that have had positive sampes being withdrawn at the first available opportunity to be treated, the entire fleet will be chlorinated regardless of readings that they have.

And people here think that the RMT is the bad guy here for daring to raise a issue affecting the health of their members but also the general public.

Ah, I didn't consider that. This makes much more sense now, even though this concerns passengers much more. I always hear about RMT actions relating to drivers.

As to my perception of the RMT - recently they've declared two strikes (both of which have been cancelled, over the same thing) and to me that makes them look less credible. I understand that they are fighting for better working conditions but I feel as if to the RMT, a strike threat is the first option on the table. They evidently forced TFL's hand but I do wonder whether a strike threat/planned action was necessary to do so. I think the strike action doesn't concern the whole union but I would be very surprised in the event of a strike that only train cleaners/fitters are involved.

I rely on the rail to get to work and this additional stress is not required. None of this instant nuclear option is good.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Yes, true, but Unions should not be protecting people from disciplinary action if they have genuinely committed misconduct. Their involvement should be limited to providing advice on, and ensuring the correct following of, the company's disciplinary procedures.

(Yes, I know)

Correct. In cases where it is open and shut, that is exactly what unions do. They ensure that the employee is treated fairly in accordance with company procedure.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2021 ==

If you've got a T key you can also do all sorts of other things on trains which would be a lot more dangerous, like keying in a guard's panel and releasing the doors. So if a T key isn't considered enough, the RMT needs to be pushing for a national strike requiring all T key locks to be swapped for something more secure.

To be fair, T keys should not be used on anything requiring a modicum of security. They are in widespread use elsewhere and some non railway industry people could have a justification to carry them and be passengers.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Umm because the RMT counts amongst it's members the train cleaners and fitters who have to work around or in the toilets every day.

As to TL, they're actually doing something positive which the RMT can't be blamed for but rather should be thanked for raising a health and safety issue as such because of the RMT concerns, TL are completely draining, bleaching and refilling any affected toilet but they're also been in touch with the ORR and will continue to engage with Health and Safety Union Reps eg RMT.

TL are also going to be testing ALL 115 Class 700s over the next 4 weeks with those that have had positive sampes being withdrawn at the first available opportunity to be treated, the entire fleet will be chlorinated regardless of readings that they have.

And people here think that the RMT is the bad guy here for daring to raise a issue affecting the health of their members but also the general public.

They need to crack on whilst the reduced timetables are in place as at least 20 units sitting spare on a daily basis till 6th June

 

[allotments]

Given my journey on thameslink on saturday c5pm I'd be interested how often they are cleaned at all during service (given that cleaning on public transport is something the industry claims they are doing a lot more of these days) - filthy train interior litter everywhere, toilet pretty foul etc etc - never mind legionella...

I'm on Thameslink trains once or twice a week and with few exceptions the trains and toilets have been quite clean. Toilets out of use has been an issue sometimes.

 

[island]

This is bizarre.

I always thought legionella was more of a risk with air conditioning systems than water closets.

Legionella tends to collect and replicate in any enclosed space with stagnant (non-moving) water, which can include air conditioning as well as tanks.

I notice that train loos can feel quite unventilated at times. Perhaps this may have an effect !

It won’t.

Given there are probably real battles around the corner this is a massive waste of time and reputation.

Indeed.

If you've got a T key you can also do all sorts of other things on trains which would be a lot more dangerous, like keying in a guard's panel and releasing the doors.

I don’t often travel on units with guards, but when I have done, the guard opens the panel cover with a T-key but uses a more normal flat key to activate the panel. Perhaps this is different on other stock.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don’t often travel on units with guards, but when I have done, the guard opens the panel cover with a T-key but uses a more normal flat key to activate the panel. Perhaps this is different on other stock.

It is done with the T key on a lot of older stock.

 

[WesternLancer]

I'm on Thameslink trains once or twice a week and with few exceptions the trains and toilets have been quite clean. Toilets out of use has been an issue sometimes.

Thanks - this was a Saturday about 5pm, maybe I just had bad luck.

 

[pompeyfan]

It is done with the T key on a lot of older stock.

And older desiro stock too!

 

[the sniper]

If you've got a T key you can also do all sorts of other things on trains which would be a lot more dangerous, like keying in a guard's panel and releasing the doors.

There are various caveats to that though.

 

[Aictos]

Strange that this information has only been seen by you, no mention of it anywhere else.

Strange that it was sent out to RMT members but as you're not a RMT member you would not have been privy to it.