Best passenger high speed train in UK?

[Hadleywood]

A German friend, also a driver asked me what i thought the best high speed train we have is in my view? I have to say i like the Azuma best. Fast, good looking, good cabins and a real leap forward from the HSTs i used to drive.
You?

 

[py_megapixel]

In terms of long distance inter-city travel my preference is for a 444, but that's only 100mph so maybe not high speed in your eyes.
125mph stock, I have to say I was quite impressed by the new TransPennine Mk5 coaches, but they are rather unreliable.
Azumas/IETs are OK but not all that comfortable and ride rather rough.

 

[Ken H]

HST. Wins hands down. (From a passenger perpective)

Edit. comfy, dont feel hemmed in, nice and quick.

 

[Non Multi]

Cl 373. I'd rather have had EMU/DEMU versions of that built with doors at both coach ends than the 80X series.

 

[DanNCL]

Class 91+Mark 4 sets. They have the speed capability of the newer fleets in the UK whilst still being comfortable and having decent ride quality, both things that certainly can’t be said about the latest generation of intercity trains in this country.

 

[ashkeba]

Class 745 Flirt. Level boarding. Big bike bays. Game changer. Order more for the other lines.

 

[cnjb8]

I am quite fond of the Cl222, but the HST wins for me. They have served the country for so long and there is a lot to be said about that

 

[Aictos]

Class 374s for 125mph plus
Class 91s for 125mph
Class 444 for 100mph
Class 700 for 75mph to 100mph

HSTs have had their time and all should be on a one way trip to Booths.

 

[fgwrich]

We've pretty much had this only 3 months ago.

Best UK 'High-speed train'

How the train is used has little to do with what it's capable of, or of the passenger experience it provides. It impacts how quickly it can get from point a to point b, which is the whole point of a high speed train....

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[irish_rail]

Class 745 Flirt. Level boarding. Big bike bays. Game changer. Order more for the other lines.

Oh God please no.

 

[superkev]

Ive never been on one but im surprised no ones mentioned the Hitachi 395 which I believe is capable 125 or is it 140mph.
As for myself in terms of ride and ambiance I think the ic125 is the standard to beat particularly the ones fitted with plug doors.
Perhaps the Azuma particularly the ride will improve in time as the mk4s who rode appallingly when new did.
K

 

[185]

The much maligned 390 Pendolino. Whilst not perfect, it's comfortable, and quick.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The much maligned 390 Pendolino. Whilst not perfect, it's comfortable, and quick.

I agree that it’s the best
I disagree that it’s not perfect

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Another vote for the Class 390 (in its present form) - comfortable, and the subdued lighting is the nicest thing when travelling at night.*

*May all change with the refurbishment, though.

 

[greyman42]

I have to say I was quite impressed by the new TransPennine Mk5 coaches, but they are rather unreliable.
Azumas/IETs are OK but not all that comfortable and ride rather rough.

TPE MK5 ride rough and have an awful draft (air con) coming from the bottom of the windows. The seats are nothing to write home about either.

 

[hexagon789]

A German friend, also a driver asked me what i thought the best high speed train we have is in my view? I have to say i like the Azuma best. Fast, good looking, good cabins and a real leap forward from the HSTs i used to drive.
You?

Not an easy question to answer, they all have one or another issue which makes giving a single answer difficult.

HSTs - of all the 125mph capable trains we have it is undoubtedly the most successful. 40 years in frontline 125mph service is quite an achievement, particularly for a diesel train. They lose out on power, compared to most modern trains their top end acceleration is very sluggish and having the traction concentrated at the ends really shows up in poor adhesion compared to say an Azuma.

IC225s - much better acceleration at higher speeds than an HST (80+mph), they can keep sharper point-to-poimt timings, but they never really solved the ride quality issues satisfactorily.

80x - the performance on electric is brilliant can't argue with that, certainly they look modern - shame they are let down by build quality and a ride quality that is variable (it can be worse than a 225 or slightly better but either way it's not a smooth rider, it gets unsettled very easily).

390 - again the performance is good, they've certainly revolutionised the WCML, the ride is quite good the main issue is the cramped interiors and until certain remedial actions were taken the lack of seating capacity vs demand.

I think I would score thus:

HST - 95/100
225 - 90/100
390 - 90/100
80x - 80/100

 

[James James]

Class 745 Flirt. Level boarding. Big bike bays. Game changer. Order more for the other lines.

It's a shame the Smiles for EMR never happened - that would have actually qualified as high-speed (although Flirts do go to 200km/h if specced).

 

[norbitonflyer]

Class 91+Mark 4 sets. They have the speed capability of the newer fleets in the UK whilst still being comfortable and having decent ride quality, both things that certainly can’t be said about the latest generation of intercity trains in this country.

Close call, but the narrower body profile (future proofing for tilt that never happened) makes you feel more hemmed in in a Mark 4 than in a Mark 3 so the HST edges it. Pendolinos and Voyagers lose marks for this too (Voyagers lose marks for lots of other reasons too)

 

[dk1]

Class 745 Flirt. Level boarding. Big bike bays. Game changer. Order more for the other lines.

Hear Hear

 

[notadriver]

Not an easy question to answer, they all have one or another issue which makes giving a single answer difficult.

HSTs - of all the 125mph capable trains we have it is undoubtedly the most successful. 40 years in frontline 125mph service is quite an achievement, particularly for a diesel train. They lose out on power, compared to most modern trains their top end acceleration is very sluggish and having the traction concentrated at the ends really shows up in poor adhesion compared to say an Azuma.

IC225s - much better acceleration at higher speeds than an HST (80+mph), they can keep sharper point-to-poimt timings, but they never really solved the ride quality issues satisfactorily.

80x - the performance on electric is brilliant can't argue with that, certainly they look modern - shame they are let down by build quality and a ride quality that is variable (it can be worse than a 225 or slightly better but either way it's not a smooth rider, it gets unsettled very easily).

390 - again the performance is good, they've certainly revolutionised the WCML, the ride is quite good the main issue is the cramped interiors and until certain remedial actions were taken the lack of seating capacity vs demand.

I think I would score thus:

HST - 95/100
225 - 90/100
390 - 90/100
80x - 80/100

With the remaining HSTs having been re-engined I’m not so sure a class 91 with 9 vehicles is quicker than a 2+8 set as used by XC.

 

[eastdyke]

Class 745 Flirt. Level boarding. Big bike bays. Game changer. Order more for the other lines.

After the hiatus last year managed to do my annual 'Tour de East Anglia' on Wednesday.
First journey in a 745 Flirt Ipswich-Norwich.
The level boarding is something else and the overall experience rates highly. Not sure about London-Edinbugh but for journeys up to 90 minutes [see what I did there?] they are very very good.

 

[Ken H]

After the hiatus last year managed to do my annual 'Tour de East Anglia' on Wednesday.
First journey in a 745 Flirt Ipswich-Norwich.
The level boarding is something else and the overall experience rates highly. Not sure about London-Edinbugh but for journeys up to 90 minutes [see what I did there?] they are very very good.

is a 100mph MU really 'high speed'. I think to qualify for 'High speed' a train must be 125mph capable.

 

[eastdyke]

is a 100mph MU really 'high speed'. I think to qualify for 'High speed' a train must be 125mph capable.

Will this do?

Produktdetail - Stadler

www.stadlerrail.com

The FLIRT200 is a high-speed single-decker Intercity train.

How long are HST lovers going to remain in a time warp?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Class 745 Flirt. Level boarding. Big bike bays. Game changer. Order more for the other lines.

Interesting, I think they’re awful as an Intercity train. The huge bar in front of airline window seats obstructs my legs, first class is a sham and the lack of gangway doors makes it feel like a 700.

 

[Efini92]

With the remaining HSTs having been re-engined I’m not so sure a class 91 with 9 vehicles is quicker than a 2+8 set as used by XC.

Don’t xc use 2+7?

is a 100mph MU really 'high speed'. I think to qualify for 'High speed' a train must be 125mph capable.

I believe officially it’s anything over 110mph

 

[Taunton]

How long are HST lovers going to remain in a time warp?

Probably until rolling stock designers can achieve basic features their grandfathers readily managed 50 years ago.

 

[fgwrich]

Probably until rolling stock designers can achieve basic features their grandfathers readily managed 50 years ago.

Spot on. It can easily be done, Dick Fearn told DCA that he wanted Irish Rails new 22000 DMU’s to be a Mk3 replacement and that is exactly what he got. A perfectly designed, new DMU taking the best features from a Mk3. The irony is that the same design firm is since gone on to give us the appallingly designed IETs. Only the 180 comes close.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I believe officially it’s anything over 110mph

Internationally, high speed is 200km/h or above.

 

[hexagon789]

With the remaining HSTs having been re-engined I’m not so sure a class 91 with 9 vehicles is quicker than a 2+8 set as used by XC.

Why? The engines are rated to the same specifications and more importantly the traction motors which actually move the train are the same.

I maintain that 0-60 HST wins, by 80mph the 91 is catching up, at 80+ and certainly over 100mph a 91 outperforms an HST easily.

It's at least a 2 min difference in overall 0-125mph acceleration between them.

(Also XC's sets are 2+7 and while now on MTU rather than Valenta engines, as I said the traction motors are the same so I think the BR data which said a 2+7 HST will accelerate to 125mph in 7.25 mins is valid. A 91+225 set is about 5.25 mins to the same speed.)

 

[Aictos]

Close call, but the narrower body profile (future proofing for tilt that never happened) makes you feel more hemmed in in a Mark 4 than in a Mark 3 so the HST edges it. Pendolinos and Voyagers lose marks for this too (Voyagers lose marks for lots of other reasons too)

The HSTs were worse for this especially the cramped vestibule area, the Mk4 were far more spacious in comparison so I disagree that the Mk4s made you feel more hemmed in.