Proposal for replacement swing bridge at Trowse, Norwich

[twpsaesneg]

I don't see why the railway should be allowed to remove rights held by other people merely for operational convenience.

On the other hand, why should a historic right of way - that enables ships to only get about another 500m up a river before getting to another, fixed, bridge - be retained if it is no longer required?

Bearing in mind the massive maintenance liability the current bridge is, and the dangers that go along with having to maintain it. Plus the conductor beam arrangements that is required and more maintenance intensive, and the special electrical feeding arrangements around it that could be simplified when they come up for renewal? It isn't just operational convenience, replacing the bridge with a fixed span would increase resilience, reliability and save a huge amount of money in maintenance costs.

The proper agreements and consultation will be done with the Broads Authority as Bald Rick says, it's not "the railway" running roughshod over people's rights.

 

[HSTEd]

On the other hand, why should a historic right of way - that enables ships to only get about another 500m up a river before getting to another, fixed, bridge - be retained if it is no longer required?

Bearing in mind the massive maintenance liability the current bridge is, and the dangers that go along with having to maintain it. Plus the conductor beam arrangements that is required and more maintenance intensive, and the special electrical feeding arrangements around it that could be simplified when they come up for renewal? It isn't just operational convenience, replacing the bridge with a fixed span would increase resilience, reliability and save a huge amount of money in maintenance costs.

The proper agreements and consultation will be done with the Broads Authority as Bald Rick says, it's not "the railway" running roughshod over people's rights.

I was talking about the span at Reedham that someone suggested should be blocked because it would only impact "arrogant" boat owners who dare to inconvenience the railway.

 

[dk1]

I was talking about the span at Reedham that someone suggested should be blocked because it would only impact "arrogant" boat owners who dare to inconvenience the railway.

On that was probably me I wasnt suggesting the river be blocked off but many swings are purely for that reason. During busy times those bridges are left open to river traffic unless there are technical problems or a risk the bridge will not close thus delaying rail traffic.

 

[ScotGG]

Fifteen MPs have called for better links between Norwich and Cambridge dependent on a new bridge. That'd allow the hourly service to go to every 30 mins.

Seems eminently sensible given the staggering amount of new homes being built in towns along the route. Even perhaps a new station at Cringleford where lots of new homes are going up.

Call for better rail links and new stations to boost Norfolk and Suffolk

Better train links between Norwich and Cambridge, including half-hourly services and opening new railway stations, are crucial to stop rural and…

www.edp24.co.uk

New trains are nice and all, but as long as frequencies are so poor it won't entice many. A lot of EMR services skip fast growing towns.

 

[Watershed]

Fifteen MPs have called for better links between Norwich and Cambridge dependent on a new bridge. That'd allow the hourly service to go to every 30 mins.

Seems eminently sensible given the staggering amount of new homes being built in towns along the route. Even perhaps a new station at Cringleford where lots of new homes are going up.

Call for better rail links and new stations to boost Norfolk and Suffolk

Better train links between Norwich and Cambridge, including half-hourly services and opening new railway stations, are crucial to stop rural and…

www.edp24.co.uk

New trains are nice and all, but as long as frequencies are so poor it won't entice many. A lot of EMR services skip fast growing towns.

Do the MPs know for sure that the bridge is the only impediment to twice hourly frequency...?

 

[ScotGG]

Like many, they appear to know it's not the only but a key issue to resolve alongside Ely junction and others. On the same page plans for 4,000 homes in Attleborough are looking to move ahead.

15 MPs is a decent number to lobby for a project.

In many nations (and many other areas of the country) two cities 50 miles apart with towns of large growth in between would be electrified and have a better than 1 train per hour service.

 

[Tio Terry]

Fifteen MPs have called for better links between Norwich and Cambridge dependent on a new bridge. That'd allow the hourly service to go to every 30 mins.

Seems eminently sensible given the staggering amount of new homes being built in towns along the route. Even perhaps a new station at Cringleford where lots of new homes are going up.

Call for better rail links and new stations to boost Norfolk and Suffolk

Better train links between Norwich and Cambridge, including half-hourly services and opening new railway stations, are crucial to stop rural and…

www.edp24.co.uk

New trains are nice and all, but as long as frequencies are so poor it won't entice many. A lot of EMR services skip fast growing towns.

Whilst I can see the attraction to having a station around Cringleford, the practicalities surrounding Eaton Crossing, Intwood and Keswick crossings make it a rather difficult task! Maybe reinstate Hethersett!

 

[Class 170101]

George Freeman was in the DfT until about two / three years ago and had his infamour rant on twitter about services between Cambridge & Norwich departing before his service from Kings Cross had arrived, it was a booked connection but the Kings Cross service was late.

He had his chance in the DfT to influence things but didn't take it.

In any event it won't just be Trowse Swingbridge and Ely North Jn but also, as @Bald Rick tells us, Queen Adelaide Level Crossing and Trowse Jn. The signalling will also need to be improved across the route with shorter block sections. There are some Class 6 freight paths that take up virtually the rest of the hour not used by passenger trains between Ely North Jn and Trowse Jn.

 

[Bald Rick]

In any event it won't just be Trowse Swingbridge and Ely North Jn but also, as @Bald Rick tells us, Queen Adelaide Level Crossing and Trowse Jn. The signalling will also need to be improved across the route with shorter block sections. There are some Class 6 freight paths that take up virtually the rest of the hour not used by passenger trains between Ely North Jn and Trowse Jn.

Plus all the level crossings on the route. 50% extra services means (roughly) 50% more LX risk. Some will need work.

 

[Class 170101]

Plus all the level crossings on the route. 50% extra services means (roughly) 50% more LX risk. Some will need work.

The MCB ODs haven't already increased the 'safety rating' of what was there before, then?

 

[dk1]

Plus all the level crossings on the route. 50% extra services means (roughly) 50% more LX risk. Some will need work.

Croxton is being upgraded to MCBOD so that’s one less pointless speed restriction hopefully. The whole route needs a kick up the backside.

 

[Bald Rick]

The MCB ODs haven't already increased the 'safety rating' of what was there before, then?

Oh the 8 MCB ODs will be fine. It’s the other 45 crossings that could be an issue.

 

[MP33]

When mention of building on land that floods in Norwich there is history of unsuitable sites being used. On Anglia TV there was an item on people having to move out of nearly new homes due to subsidence from old chalk workings. They showed a black and white photograph from the local paper taken in 1970 showing previous properties on the site that also been affected.

In the book The Art of Coarse Sailing,the author talks about problems with a Railway swing bridge and a long wait for it to open. His friend writes a letter of complaint to British Railways starting dear filth. In my edition there is a footnote from the Author stating that the Railway has now closed and the bridge is always open. He may have been talking about the Great Yarmouth to Lowestoft branch which closed in 1970.

 

[Tio Terry]

When mention of building on land that floods in Norwich there is history of unsuitable sites being used. On Anglia TV there was an item on people having to move out of nearly new homes due to subsidence from old chalk workings. They showed a black and white photograph from the local paper taken in 1970 showing previous properties on the site that also been affected.

In the book The Art of Coarse Sailing,the author talks about problems with a Railway swing bridge and a long wait for it to open. His friend writes a letter of complaint to British Railways starting dear filth. In my edition there is a footnote from the Author stating that the Railway has now closed and the bridge is always open. He may have been talking about the Great Yarmouth to Lowestoft branch which closed in 1970.

There were no swing bridges between Gt Yarmouth Southtown and Lowestoft that I can remember. Perhaps it was St Olaves (Haddiscoe) or Breydon Water (but I doubt it, that one was normally open to river traffic), that would have been between Lowestoft and Yarmouth Beach. There was Beccles but that was not really somewhere you got many sailing ships. The others, Trowse, Reedham, Somerleyton and Carlton Colville (Oulton Broad) still have operating railways over them.

 

[BayPaul]

In the book The Art of Coarse Sailing,the author talks about problems with a Railway swing bridge and a long wait for it to open. His friend writes a letter of complaint to British Railways starting dear filth. In my edition there is a footnote from the Author stating that the Railway has now closed and the bridge is always open. He may have been talking about the Great Yarmouth to Lowestoft branch which closed in 1970.

One of my favourite books! I love the descriptions of the typical disasters of mud hopping sailing!

There were no swing bridges between Gt Yarmouth Southtown and Lowestoft that I can remember. Perhaps it was St Olaves (Haddiscoe) or Breydon Water (but I doubt it, that one was normally open to river traffic), that would have been between Lowestoft and Yarmouth Beach. There was Beccles but that was not really somewhere you got many sailing ships. The others, Trowse, Reedham, Somerleyton and Carlton Colville (Oulton Broad) still have operating railways over them.

It was Haddiscoe swing bridge, on the Great Yarmouth - Beccles line, which closed to passenger traffic in 1959.

 

[Tio Terry]

One of my favourite books! I love the descriptions of the typical disasters of mud hopping sailing!


It was Haddiscoe swing bridge, on the Great Yarmouth - Beccles line, which closed to passenger traffic in 1959.

Haddiscoe is the station on the Norwich-Lowestoft line, the station on the Gt Yarmouth-Beccles line was St Olaves and the swing Bridge was called St Olaves. It was by far superior to the Reedham and Somerleyton pair and was preserved as a "Strategic Spare" for a number of years with a view to reuse, but that never happened.

 

[ScotGG]

When mention of building on land that floods in Norwich there is history of unsuitable sites being used. On Anglia TV there was an item on people having to move out of nearly new homes due to subsidence from old chalk workings. They showed a black and white photograph from the local paper taken in 1970 showing previous properties on the site that also been affected.

In the book The Art of Coarse Sailing,the author talks about problems with a Railway swing bridge and a long wait for it to open. His friend writes a letter of complaint to British Railways starting dear filth. In my edition there is a footnote from the Author stating that the Railway has now closed and the bridge is always open. He may have been talking about the Great Yarmouth to Lowestoft branch which closed in 1970.

We're always hearing about flooding risk but nothing new. Half the housing on the county was built on what was once flood plains. The Netherlands would never do anything as well.

Same in other cities. A lot of new builds now rising take into account flooding.

I was looking into location of new homes along the route. Some Wymondham new housing is near the line. Attleboroughs 4000 new homes appear to be directly south of the station.

 

[D365]

The MCB ODs haven't already increased the 'safety rating' of what was there before, then?

Please can you define those abbreviations, as an electrical engineer I default to thinking ”Master Circuit Breaker”.

 

[dk1]

Please can you define those abbreviations, as an electrical engineer I default to thinking ”Master Circuit Breaker”.

Manually Controlled Barriers monitored by Obstacle Detectors.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Croxton is being upgraded to MCBOD so that’s one less pointless speed restriction hopefully. The whole route needs a kick up the backside.

Certainly does, half hourly, fast service to Cambridge would certainly be successful but as has been already stated, many challenges. Trowse swing bridge is 1 plus upgrading the track to 90 / 100 mph between Norwich and Thetford would really pick up the extra traffic flows from the new houses in Attlebourgh and Thetford into Norwich.

 

[Class 170101]

Certainly does, half hourly, fast service to Cambridge would certainly be successful but as has been already stated, many challenges. Trowse swing bridge is 1 plus upgrading the track to 90 / 100 mph between Norwich and Thetford would really pick up the extra traffic flows from the new houses in Attlebourgh and Thetford into Norwich.

Isn't the route there already upto 90mph for Class 158s and Class 755s?

From a planning perspective its not the speed but single lead Junctions at Trowse Swingbridge, Trowse Jn and Ely North Jn. The signalling sections are also quite long - upto 15 minutes in places in planning terms.

 

[dk1]

Isn't the route there already upto 90mph for Class 158s and Class 755s?

From a planning perspective its not the speed but single lead Junctions at Trowse Swingbridge, Trowse Jn and Ely North Jn. The signalling sections are also quite long - upto 15 minutes in places in planning terms.

90mph is up road Spooner-near Attleborough, Harling Road to approaching Thetford, & Two Mile Bottom to just after Brandon. Down road Approaching Brandon to almost Thetford, Croxton to almost Eccles Road (except a short 80 approaching Harling) then Poplar Farm to Rose Farm. It’s all signalled for 90mph however. I was always told 100mph would be too costly a jump for this route.

 

[w0033944]

90mph is up road Spooner-near Attleborough, Harling Road to approaching Thetford, & Two Mile Bottom to just after Brandon. Down road Approaching Brandon to almost Thetford, Croxton to almost Eccles Road (except a short 80 approaching Harling) then Poplar Farm to Rose Farm. It’s all signalled for 90mph however. I was always told 100mph would be too costly a jump for this route.

Just out of interest, what's the limit between Wymondham and the junction south of Norwich?

 

[dk1]

Just out of interest, what's the limit between Wymondham and the junction south of Norwich?

It’s 75mph mate. Drops to 40mph over Trowse Jcn.

 

[w0033944]

It’s 75mph mate. Drops to 40mph over Trowse Jcn.

Thanks! Where's Poplar Farm?

 

[dk1]

Thanks! Where's Poplar Farm?

Poplar Farm is the MCBOD on the bend a minute or so after leaving Attleborough in the up direction.

 

[w0033944]

Poplar Farm is the MCBOD on the bend a minute or so after leaving Attleborough in the up direction.

Thanks.