Peak Hour restrictions

[stevetay3]

Given the reductions in commuting for various reasons, are we ever likely to see any change to peak time restrictions and fares. Two points come to mind, there seems to be a ban on arriving in London and other city’s before 10AM, this I propose could be brought forward to 9AM to help people make longer trips through the cities such as London .I don’t think this would drop revenue that much and may even increase
due to more being able to travel earlier in the day. Most people have to be at the office by nine anyway and those working flexible hours are most likely to all ready be using off peak tickets.This would also help to relieve overcrowding on trains just after peak times.

My other point is railcards particularly the senior one, total ban in old network area during peak period unless traveling to a destination beyond Network area, if you are travelling further afield I believe you can travel on any peak train to London to connect with a longer journey on a through ticket so surely the time restrictions could be forwarded to 9AM. I for one would make more longer trips if all the above were applied,I don’t think there are two many over 65s commuting.

A ludicrous position at the moment a day trip to say London to York on LNER seat sale costs less than the twenty mile trip into London

 

[SynthD]

I think both of those changes would help commuters more now than before covid.

 

[JonathanH]

A ludicrous position at the moment a day trip to say London to York on LNER seat sale costs less than the twenty mile trip into London

Yes, the seat sale prices were cheaper than they needed to be - just recognise the bargain you got.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2021 ==

My other point is railcards particularly the senior one, total ban in old network area during peak period unless traveling to a destination beyond Network area, if you are travelling further afield I believe you can travel on any peak train to London to connect with a longer journey on a through ticket so surely the time restrictions could be forwarded to 9AM. I for one would make more longer trips if all the above were applied,I don’t think there are two many over 65s commuting.

The Senior Railcard is available from age 60 and there are still commuters in that age group. The restriction is whenever off-peak tickets become available on the relevant journey which may be before 9am in some cases (eg the arrival in London before 10am from further out) or 9.30am in others.

This would also help to relieve overcrowding on trains just after peak times.

Wouldn't it just bring it forward an hour?

Given the reductions in commuting for various reasons, are we ever likely to see any change to peak time restrictions and fares.

The introduction of London-style PAYG further out from London could well be used to change the peak time restrictions, possibly to make them more consistent and maybe for the worse in some cases - eg blanket 0930 and an afternoon peak as well if it follows the London model.

 

[miklcct]

Given the reductions in commuting for various reasons, are we ever likely to see any change to peak time restrictions and fares. Two points come to mind, there seems to be a ban on arriving in London and other city’s before 10AM, this I propose could be brought forward to 9AM to help people make longer trips through the cities such as London .I don’t think this would drop revenue that much and may even increase
due to more being able to travel earlier in the day. Most people have to be at the office by nine anyway and those working flexible hours are most likely to all ready be using off peak tickets.This would also help to relieve overcrowding on trains just after peak times.

My other point is railcards particularly the senior one, total ban in old network area during peak period unless traveling to a destination beyond Network area, if you are travelling further afield I believe you can travel on any peak train to London to connect with a longer journey on a through ticket so surely the time restrictions could be forwarded to 9AM. I for one would make more longer trips if all the above were applied,I don’t think there are two many over 65s commuting.

A ludicrous position at the moment a day trip to say London to York on LNER seat sale costs less than the twenty mile trip into London

I believe there is a significant portion of commuters who start office work at 09:30 or 10:00. If we start off-peak travel earlier the overcrowding problem will only be worse. Then after this time, another wave of commuters working in retail industries who start operating shops at about 11-12 in major shopping areas will arrive. Therefore I object to the idea of changing off-peak times.

If you want to make longer trips earlier, you can buy a NOT LONDON ticket and avoid travelling on routes which will lead to London.

 

[markymark2000]

What I would like to see is rather than a whole train being categorised as a 'peak service', only the congested, or potentially congested, parts to be classified as peak and so basically there are significantly less peak fares.

There are a number of routes which don't need peak fares either but have them for some unknown reason so I would hope that lines get reviewed on a case by case basis to try and reduce the amount of lines where peak is a thing.


I think it was a West Midlands thing at one point, if you got on a train at 6am from Birmingham, even going to Rugby, you would be charged Peak fare because that train is a 'peak' train to London. The times you are travelling may not be peak times. The train may only get busy later on in the journey and for your portion of the journey, be only 1/4 full. Doesn't matter, that train arrives into London at peak time, you pay peak fare. That is one thing which I would like to see looked at.


As a more general thing, I would like to see TOCs made to go through all of the fares which they set and see if peak restrictions are actually needed. If not, get rid of them. If they are, can the peak times be reduced slightly across the board to be 7am-9am or something rather than first train - 9am (which currently means people travelling at 5AM are classed as peak travellers). Merseyrail for example, the tickets don't explicitly state it but they have zones for a number of their tickets. Hopefully they remap the zones shortly and then you can say, all tickets are valid at all times except for certain zones which have peak restrictions so then people who want to travel in the outer zoned (but excluding Chester), can do so without any limits. Better than saying 'no cheap travel on the network before 9.30 despite the fact the trains will be empty'

I think that the '1 month return' tickets should be anytime, no peak/off peak. People are already paying a premium, for the 1 month. I think the amount of people getting the 1 month return is quite low, most people get day returns, and so just make it anytime. It'll make little difference to people.

 

[JonathanH]

In essence, what you are describing is 'surge' pricing. Be careful what you wish for. I doubt it would happen but a PAYG system could charge more depending on loadings so more is charged as more passengers turn up.

 

[markymark2000]

In essence, what you are describing is 'surge' pricing. Be careful what you wish for. I doubt it would happen but a PAYG system could charge more depending on loadings so more is charged as more passengers turn up.

Kind of yes but it would have to be over a time period and couldn't just depend day by day. It shouldn't extend any further than the current peak times either. I think full scale surge pricing could go bonkers, if an event is on, all the rail fares go up. It's a recipe for disaster that haha. There is something which could happen though to reduce the amount of trains which peak restrictions apply to by monitoring numbers.

 

[Turtle]

Given the reductions in commuting for various reasons, are we ever likely to see any change to peak time restrictions and fares. Two points come to mind, there seems to be a ban on arriving in London and other city’s before 10AM, this I propose could be brought forward to 9AM to help people make longer trips through the cities such as London .I don’t think this would drop revenue that much and may even increase
due to more being able to travel earlier in the day. Most people have to be at the office by nine anyway and those working flexible hours are most likely to all ready be using off peak tickets.This would also help to relieve overcrowding on trains just after peak times.

My other point is railcards particularly the senior one, total ban in old network area during peak period unless traveling to a destination beyond Network area, if you are travelling further afield I believe you can travel on any peak train to London to connect with a longer journey on a through ticket so surely the time restrictions could be forwarded to 9AM. I for one would make more longer trips if all the above were applied,I don’t think there are two many over 65s commuting.

A ludicrous position at the moment a day trip to say London to York on LNER seat sale costs less than the twenty mile trip into London

Excellent idea.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2021 ==

Excellent idea.

On further consideration 09:30 might be more acceptable.

 

[stevetay3]

Excellent idea.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2021 ==


On further consideration 09:30 might be more acceptable.

It is 09.30 now on some routes, it’s the no arrival before 10 rule that is the problem, do most commuters not have to be in work by 9 anyway. Plus commuters mostly use season tickets, the cheapest rates of all ticketing ,and railcards do not apply to these anyway.

 

[Ianno87]

Given the reductions in commuting for various reasons, are we ever likely to see any change to peak time restrictions and fares. Two points come to mind, there seems to be a ban on arriving in London and other city’s before 10AM, this I propose could be brought forward to 9AM to help people make longer trips through the cities such as London .I don’t think this would drop revenue that much and may even increase
due to more being able to travel earlier in the day. Most people have to be at the office by nine anyway and those working flexible hours are most likely to all ready be using off peak tickets.This would also help to relieve overcrowding on trains just after peak times.

Alternative is to keep the "not before 1000" restriction on off-peak tickets, but offer train-specific Advances (available until departure subject to Quota) for trains before then, that can be combined with a flexible or fixed single on the return.

Basically how I've done Cambridge-Liverpool Street for years now.

 

[stevetay3]

Alternative is to keep the "not before 1000" restriction on off-peak tickets, but offer train-specific Advances (available until departure subject to Quota) for trains before then, that can be combined with a flexible or fixed single on the return.

Basically how I've done Cambridge-Liverpool Street for years now.

Or bring in a third fare level set at below anytime rate but a bit higher than off peak say between 08.30 and 10.00.

 

[Hadders]

What I would like to see is rather than a whole train being categorised as a 'peak service', only the congested, or potentially congested, parts to be classified as peak and so basically there are significantly less peak fares.

There is no such thing as a 'peak service', even today. Restrictions apply to tickets, not to trains so it's already quite legitimate to have a mixture of passengers travelling on the same train, some with Anytime tickets and some with Off Peak.

I do agree that it would be sensible for the DfT/TOCs to look at the timings of restrictions and see whether things such as afternoon restrictions could be removed from all off peak tickets.

 

[stevetay3]

There is no such thing as a 'peak service', even today. Restrictions apply to tickets, not to trains so it's already quite legitimate to have a mixture of passengers travelling on the same train, some with Anytime tickets and some with Off Peak.

I do agree that it would be sensible for the DfT/TOCs to look at the timings of restrictions and see whether things such as afternoon restrictions could be removed from all off peak tickets.

I stand corrected as to the definition of peak tickets ,but what ever you call them the massive difference in price needs to be looked at if we are going to get people back.

 

[JonathanH]

I do agree that it would be sensible for the DfT/TOCs to look at the timings of restrictions and see whether things such as afternoon restrictions could be removed from all off peak tickets.

Extrapolation of the London PAYG structure to a wider area is likely to result in the *extension* of afternoon restrictions. Indeed, it was this approach that was a key part of the RDG proposals for a change to the fare structure.

 

[SynthD]

Or bring in a third fare level set at below anytime rate but a bit higher than off peak say between 08.30 and 10.00.

Chiltern do that, where off peak arrives before 11:30 and super off peak from then.

 

[markymark2000]

There is no such thing as a 'peak service', even today. Restrictions apply to tickets, not to trains so it's already quite legitimate to have a mixture of passengers travelling on the same train, some with Anytime tickets and some with Off Peak.

I do agree that it would be sensible for the DfT/TOCs to look at the timings of restrictions and see whether things such as afternoon restrictions could be removed from all off peak tickets.

Sorry, I thought they did split it as a peak or off peak train.

 

[Hadders]

Extrapolation of the London PAYG structure to a wider area is likely to result in the *extension* of afternoon restrictions. Indeed, it was this approach that was a key part of the RDG proposals for a change to the fare structure.

In principle this is a good idea but I would hope that contra-peak flows in the evening peak aren't charged an Anytime fare. For example Stevenage to London at 17:00 on a weekday evening should be off peak.

At the moment the return portion of a Stevenage to London Off Peak Day Return has no evening restrictions. It would be interesting to see if this continues.....

Sorry, I thought they did split it as a peak or off peak train.

Consider a train from Edinburgh to London departing Edinburgh at 07:00. It calls Newcastle at 08:30, York 09:25, Peterborough 10:45, Stevenage 11:15 and Kings Cross 11:40

If restrictions applied to trains then you would expect it to be a peak train, and to need an anytime to travel on it.
But it would be ludicrous to require an Anytime ticket between Peterborough and Kings Cross.
This is why restrictions apply to tickets rather than to trains.