Sweden: SJ, DSB and RDC to operate Stockholm-Hamburg EuroNight from August 2022

[jamesontheroad]

The Swedish Transport Administration Trafikverket has today announced that they have selected SJ as the preferred operator of a new international night train from Stockholm to Hamburg. No tenders were received for the other invitation, a night train originating in Malmö.

The decision is interesting because it specifies that the train will run for a certain number of days each year, which seems to have been based on when the Snälltåget Stockholm-Malmö-Hamburg-Berlin sleeper isn't running. Snälltåget (part of Transdev) have vocally opposed the state procurement and subsidy of international night trains, and refused to tender for either of these packages. It is open for debate (and potentially a legal appeal) whether an SJ EuroNight train with seats, couchettes and sleepers would be competing unfairly with Snälltåget's train of just seats and couchettes.

SJ has said in a press release that they will collaborate with DSB, who will drive the train through Denmark (presumably with one of their new Vectrons) and RDC (Railway Development Corporation) who will provide the rolling stock. SJ's own rolling stock is all built to Swedish gauge (the bodies are about 20cm wider) so cannot be used.

(When the Malmö-Berlin night train ran via the ferry, it followed a wider gauge route through the former eastern sector of from Sassnitz to Berlin that was designed by the Soviets to facilitate military shipments, so could use Swedish carriages).

The agreement is for 4 years with a possible extension of 2 years and covers traffic for 244 days per year.

...

The night trains will be advertised as SJ EuroNight and will be part of the network of European night trains which, after many years of decline, is now growing and becoming increasingly popular. SJ will work closely with other operators to create as good conditions as possible for Swedes to start and end their European journey with the night train to / from Hamburg.

According to the preliminary timetable, the night train will depart Stockholm early in the evening and arrive in Hamburg between 06 and 07. A good arrival time for those who want to travel further. From Hamburg the train departs after kl. 21 and arrives in Stockholm at approx. 10. Traffic will start during the second half of 2022.

"All the details about how we will run the night trains are still to be confirmed. For example, we are working to create the best possible connection opportunities to and from the night train. We want to make it possible for as many people as possible to take the train to the continent and attract as many Europeans as possible to travel to Sweden," said Maria Hofberg, in charge of international night train traffic at SJ.

A short announcement from Trafikverket can be translated as follows:

The Swedish Transport Administration has decided to allocate SJ traffic from Stockholm. The second route from Malmö has not been awarded as no tenders have been received. The contract with SJ can be signed no earlier than 10 September if it is not reviewed and extends four years with the possibility of extension for another two years.

The basis for the assignment has been that all train traffic must be performed on a commercial basis, but in addition, the Swedish Transport Administration has the task of procuring certain traffic that cannot be conducted commercially. That assignment is about supporting accessibility between different parts of the country in Sweden or, in this case, to Europe.

There will be one travel opportunity per day in each direction and the entire trip can be booked on SJ's website. Travel time is about 12-13 hours depending on direction. The exact times will not be clear until the train schedule is determined this autumn.

A former thread on RUK speculating about this process and decision (now closed to replies) can be found here.

 

[StephenHunter]

Snälltåget will probably have a bit of a moan about their train being a Durchzug and this being a EuroNight.

 

[Gloster]

The new Vectrons are or will be passed for both Sweden and Germany, so it would be possible for one to take over the train from SJ at Malmö and haul it through to Hamburg. Once the new DSB coaches arrive it could then work back to Copenhagen. In its later years the Alfred Nobel took about an hour and a half to two hours longer, but then it had two ferry crossings.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Snälltåget will probably have a bit of a moan about their train being a Durchzug and this being a EuroNight.

I wrote something on Twitter about this.

Snälltåget could not have wished for a more open goal. They already drive a train on the same route during the part of the year when they think they can do so commercially. If they were prepared to adapt their business plan and lease or buy sleeping cars, it would have been theirs for the taking. But they threw their toys out of the pram and now they have a big competitor on their hands, one with state backing and a vast network of feeder services in Sweden.

Maybe they’ve got a plan to appeal it, but I think they’ve misjudged this one.

 

[StephenHunter]

Two ferry crossings? Was that a record?

 

[jamesontheroad]

Two ferry crossings? Was that a record?

For a long time it was quite normal for domestic trains crossing Denmark!

 

[StephenHunter]

For a long time it was quite normal for domestic trains crossing Denmark!

Of course, I was wondering if there was a case with three...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Snälltåget will probably have a bit of a moan about their train being a Durchzug and this being a EuroNight.

D = Durchgangs-Schnellzug, an express train with corridor coaches.

EN spec requires sleeper coaches. If they added some they could have it too.

 

[StephenHunter]

D was used for sleepers as well before EuroNight became a thing. And the Wien-Kyiv service has a D too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

D was used for sleepers as well before EuroNight became a thing. And the Wien-Kyiv service has a D too.

D in Germany essentially means "express train that doesn't fit the quality specification of one of the other categories and is not funded by a Bundesland so isn't RE on those grounds" - essentially a dumping ground

Years ago it had more value, when the Bm and Bm235 compartment coaches were considered premium over those in an E (Eilzug) which didn't have corridors.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Of course, I was wondering if there was a case with three...

Presumably the rail link between Jutland and Fyn was via a ferry a long time ago (and that between Fyn and Zeeland was until recent decades, as was that between Zeeland and Sweden); if so, there would have been 2 internal ferries as well as the international one, making 3 ferries on any through traffic between the Danish "mainland" (Jutland) and Sweden.

The use of two train ferries between Germany or Jutland, and Sweden, was still the case in my first travels in the area.

 

[Gloster]

Presumably the rail link between Jutland and Fyn was via a ferry a long time ago (and that between Fyn and Zeeland was until recent decades, as was that between Zeeland and Sweden); if so, there would have been 2 internal ferries as well as the international one, making 3 ferries on any through traffic between the Danish "mainland" (Jutland) and Sweden.

The use of two train ferries between Germany or Jutland, and Sweden, was still the case in my first travels in the area.

The Fredericia-Strib train-ferry between Jutland and Fyn was replaced by a bridge in 1935. I am pretty sure that there was never a regular through Sweden-Germany service via this route: through trains normally went via Trelleborg, although from 1903-1909 it is possible that they went from on a ferry from Malmö to Copenhagen, down to Gedser and then another ferry to Germany. (I can’t find my copy of Patrick Ransome-Wallis’ book, which would have the answer.)

 

[AlbertBeale]

The Fredericia-Strib train-ferry between Jutland and Fyn was replaced by a bridge in 1935. I am pretty sure that there was never a regular through Sweden-Germany service via this route: through trains normally went via Trelleborg, although from 1903-1909 it is possible that they went from on a ferry from Malmö to Copenhagen, down to Gedser and then another ferry to Germany. (I can’t find my copy of Patrick Ransome-Wallis’ book, which would have the answer.)

OK - maybe there were no through services from Jutland (whether originating in Germany or not) to Sweden pre-1935. I obviously only remember using the Fyn-Zeeland and the Zeeland-Sweden train ferries. So perhaps there are no examples of journeys using three ferries en route!

It makes sense that with two internal ferries in Denmark, a normal route from Germany to Sweden, if going via Denmark, would have entailed going via a single hop (albeit a longer one) from Germany to eastern Denmark and then the crossing to Sweden - ie two ferries in total.

 

[JonasB]

Jarnvagar.nu has an article about the train: https://jarnvagar.nu/sj-kor-nattag-till-hamburg/ (use Google translate if you don't speak Swedish).

It will be three loco changes along the route in the beginning. From Stockholm to Malmö SJ will use their own Rc6, they will hire some loco to haul it across the bridge to Copenhagen where a DSB EB (Vectron) will take over and haul it to Padborg. From Padborg a Traxx from RDC will take the train trough Germany to Hamburg. As soon as the EBs are approved to be used in Germany, that will eliminate the change in Padborg.

A more interesting comment is that the long term goal from SJ is to use their own locos all the way from Stockholm to Hamburg starting in 2024. They intend to lease locos to be used in the train, but don't mention what kind (my guess would be on Vectrons).

 

[StephenHunter]

The choice of the WLAB32 is interesting... I believe those are originally CIWL built!

 

[jamesontheroad]

In the article shared by @JonasB there is an interesting quote from Marco Andersson at Snälltåget. Roughly translated:

“It depends on how the market develops, how the pandemic develops, how well SJ succeeds with the traffic and how well we succeed. But I believe and hope that both our train and SJ's train will get many passengers once the corona restrictions are gone from Germany."

I hope this means that Snälltåget isn't going to get litiguous. The potential for this to get messy is high: Snälltåget have a commercial operation without subsidy on the same route. The tender appears to suggest (but does not confirm) that SJ will receive a subsidy from driving the train in Sweden and Denmark when Snälltåget are not driving their train... but it does not limit from SJ driving all year and without a subsidy on the same days as Snälltåget.

Does it really help passengers or the market to have two operators on two parrallel but different routes, potentially on the same or different days? Good luck to the compilers of the ERT for explaining days of operation in the footnotes!

 

[jamesontheroad]

With the publication of most of the 2022 timetables, train times for EN496/497 from/to Hamburg as far as Copenhagen have been loaded into the travel planner on SJ.se and the SJ app.

From Sweden towards Germany, the train will depart Stockholm 17:34 and arrive Copenhagen 00:15, where a change of locomotive and direction probably wouldn't see it leave before 00:30. From Germany towards Sweden, the train will depart Copenhagen 03:32 and Stockholm 10:17.

First departure is 26 June 2022 from Stockholm.

I'm not sure when we'll see the complete end-to-end schedule, but I guess it'll be whenever the German railways confirm their times for summer 2022.

All-in-all, not great timings for passengers to/from Copenhagen.

 

[30907]

With the publication of most of the 2022 timetables, train times for EN496/497 from/to Hamburg as far as Copenhagen have been loaded into the travel planner on SJ.se and the SJ app.

From Sweden towards Germany, the train will depart Stockholm 17:34 and arrive Copenhagen 00:15, where a change of locomotive and direction probably wouldn't see it leave before 00:30. From Germany towards Sweden, the train will depart Copenhagen 03:32 and Stockholm 10:17.

First departure is 26 June 2022 from Stockholm.

I'm not sure when we'll see the complete end-to-end schedule, but I guess it'll be whenever the German railways confirm their times for summer 2022.

All-in-all, not great timings for passengers to/from Copenhagen.

But Copenhagen- Hamburg is too short for a night train (these days - I remember doing the reverse about 40 years ago and it was OK). Copenhagen suburbs- Berlin works with Snälltåget.

 

[JonasB]

Agree that Copenhagen-Hamburg is not the main market for this train to put it mildly. It might attract the odd passenger, but not many, and to be honest many will probably prefer Snälltåget's schedule. A 10:17 arrival in Stockholm is great for connections further north in Sweden however, much better than Snälltåget. The SJ train will allow you catch the 11:21 to Sundsvall or 12:21 to Umeå, making it possible to get pretty far north, reaching Piteå before midnight and Luleå not far after (00:20).

 

[popeter45]

With the publication of most of the 2022 timetables, train times for EN496/497 from/to Hamburg as far as Copenhagen have been loaded into the travel planner on SJ.se and the SJ app.

From Sweden towards Germany, the train will depart Stockholm 17:34 and arrive Copenhagen 00:15, where a change of locomotive and direction probably wouldn't see it leave before 00:30. From Germany towards Sweden, the train will depart Copenhagen 03:32 and Stockholm 10:17.

First departure is 26 June 2022 from Stockholm.

I'm not sure when we'll see the complete end-to-end schedule, but I guess it'll be whenever the German railways confirm their times for summer 2022.

All-in-all, not great timings for passengers to/from Copenhagen.

any idea on if it will stop in Malmo?
also whats the expected arrival time in Hamburg?

 

[JonasB]

any idea on if it will stop in Malmo?
also whats the expected arrival time in Hamburg?

There will (at least initially) be a loco change in Malmö, so it would be very strange to not have an announced stop there.

 

[AlbertBeale]

With the publication of most of the 2022 timetables, train times for EN496/497 from/to Hamburg as far as Copenhagen have been loaded into the travel planner on SJ.se and the SJ app.

From Sweden towards Germany, the train will depart Stockholm 17:34 and arrive Copenhagen 00:15, where a change of locomotive and direction probably wouldn't see it leave before 00:30. From Germany towards Sweden, the train will depart Copenhagen 03:32 and Stockholm 10:17.

First departure is 26 June 2022 from Stockholm.

I'm not sure when we'll see the complete end-to-end schedule, but I guess it'll be whenever the German railways confirm their times for summer 2022.

All-in-all, not great timings for passengers to/from Copenhagen.

I thought that the through trains between Sweden and Hamburg were going to call at a station on the western fringe of the Copenhagen built-up area (halfway to Roskilde in fact!) - presumably Høje Taastrup?? - precisely to avoid needing to reverse (which would indeed be necessary if going via København H). Høje Taastrup wourld provide connections with local trains and the city metro ... assuming any of them were running at the time the sleeper called...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2021 ==

Agree that Copenhagen-Hamburg is not the main market for this train to put it mildly. It might attract the odd passenger, but not many, and to be honest many will probably prefer Snälltåget's schedule. A 10:17 arrival in Stockholm is great for connections further north in Sweden however, much better than Snälltåget. The SJ train will allow you catch the 11:21 to Sundsvall or 12:21 to Umeå, making it possible to get pretty far north, reaching Piteå before midnight and Luleå not far after (00:20).

Yes - clearly this is for Stockholm-Hamburg journeys, not for Denmark-Hamburg. Overnight trains with the northern end serving Malmo and Copenhagen make more sense for people going to and from Berlin (which is going to be catered for by the other night train mentioned above) and for, eg, Brussels - which isn't currently planned, it seems. I've done an overnight (on a charter train - seats only!) between Brussels [starting initially in London] and Copenhagen; it seems an ideal sort of route for a sleeper, and especially useful for Brits too, since the Harwich-Esbjerg ferry stopped running a few years ago.

 

[jamesontheroad]

any idea on if it will stop in Malmo?
also whats the expected arrival time in Hamburg?

There will (at least initially) be a loco change in Malmö, so it would be very strange to not have an announced stop there.

Yes @popeter45, as @JonasB writes it has to stop in Malmö for a locomotive change. SJ will haul the train with one of their own Rc6 locomotives between Stockholm and Malmö. Something else (TBC) will then pull it to Copenhagen H, and then (probably) a DSB Vectron will pull it to Hamburg.

Southbound, the train will arrive in Malmö (high level) at 22:40 and depart 23:33.

Northbound, the train will arrive in Malmö at 04:13 and depart 04:44.

I thought that the through trains between Sweden and Hamburg were going to call at a station on the western fringe of the Copenhagen built-up area (halfway to Roskilde in fact!) - presumably Høje Taastrup?? - precisely to avoid needing to reverse (which would indeed be necessary if going via København H). Høje Taastrup wourld provide connections with local trains and the city metro ... assuming any of them were running at the time the sleeper called...

That was what Snälltåget decided to do, since it meant a single Hector Rail locomotive could drive from Malmö to Padborg without changing ends or direction. The same locomotive could then meet with the northbound train from Berlin and bring it back to Malmö, which was the most efficient way of using the chartered locomotive and driver. I don't know if Snälltåget will share details about how successful their first season of Stockholm-Berlin has been, or how many passengers used the train to/from Denmark. I was asleep both times I passed through Høje Taastrup this summer, so have no all-important-RUK-Forum-anecdotal-evidence to share.

Since SJ decided to work with DSB on this project, it was politically convenient for the train to serve Copenhagen H and also operationally sensible since the locomotive used to go over the bridge and the DSB loco could attach/detach and haul the train out in the opposite direction.

 

[popeter45]

Southbound, the train will arrive in Malmö (high level) at 22:40 and depart 23:33.

Northbound, the train will arrive in Malmö at 04:13 and depart 04:44.

okay that makes southbound really useful but northbound would be really annoying unless they left a carriage or two in Malmo which i suspect they wont

was really exited for a brussels-malmo train but seems its just come out a damp squib for such users now

 

[jamesontheroad]

okay that makes southbound really useful but northbound would be really annoying unless they left a carriage or two in Malmo which i suspect they

That’s not a bad idea: since the opening of the City Tunnel, the upper level of Malmö Central has been much quieter. Even in the morning rush hour I think a platform could be occupied.

(The new commercially run SJ night train from Umeå-Stockholm sits in Stockholm Central for about an hour after arrival to ensure a sociable waking up time, so SJ might already be thinking of this.)

 

[Roast Veg]

was really exited for a brussels-malmo train but seems its just come out a damp squib for such users now

You can't please everyone with a single service - I'd posit that if there's a market for this then it ought to be a distinct service running at a later arrival time into Copenhagen.

On another note - how useful is this service to British travellers to Sweden? Can Hamburg be accessed from more than just London in a day when Eurostar is running a full timetable?

 

[jamesontheroad]

On another note - how useful is this service to British travellers to Sweden? Can Hamburg be accessed from more than just London in a day when Eurostar is running a full timetable?

Yes, London-Hamburg is possible, changing in Brussels and Köln.

I prefer to use the Stena Line ferry from Hoek to Harwich, because it gets my closer to where I usually want to be in East Anglia. You can also travel Schiedam - Amsterdam - Osnabrück - Hamburg easily in a day.

 

[Gloster]

On another note - how useful is this service to British travellers to Sweden? Can Hamburg be accessed from more than just London in a day when Eurostar is running a full timetable?

A couple of years ago it was possible to do the Isle of Wight to Sweden in a day, although possibly only in the peak summer period. However, there were a couple of dodgy changes and you didn’t reach Sweden until after midnight. I used to do the island to Hamburg without ridiculously early starts or arrivals quite regularly.

 

[Roast Veg]

If EN 496 is specifically timetabled to connect with EC 8 (from Zurich, via Cologne), then the combined through route from London to Helsinki and Tallinn can actually be shortened by about 12 hours - quite a big deal!

 

[jamesontheroad]

If EN 496 is specifically timetabled to connect with EC 8 (from Zurich, via Cologne), then the combined through route from London to Helsinki and Tallinn can actually be shortened by about 12 hours - quite a big deal!

The last article I read on the subject (published 17/9/2021 in Swedish on jarnvagar.nu) stated that desired arrival time in Hamburg Altona is around 06:40 and departure time around 21:50.

EC8 arrives in Hamburg Hbf at 21:14 and Hamburg Altona 21:29.

If SJ gets times broadly around what they were hoping for, then you would probably have a very safe 45-50 minute connection at Hamburg Hbf from EC8 to EN496. Time for a beer and Turkish platter in the lovely foodcourt upstairs at Hamburg Hbf!