Petrol panic buying

[brad465]

Decided to stay away from petrol stations when it all started to kick off as I thought it'd blow over quite quickly, that said I do trot about and fuel gauge is slowly getting towards the 'you need to do something area'

But really don't want to join the queue and be 'one of them'

The "one of them" is probably an indictment of the tribal divisive society we're in now. I doubt most people in petrol station queues, especially the longer this goes on, are actually panic buyers for the sake of it. If you need fuel, you need it and will try and find somewhere to go for it.

The Government do seem to be doing an outstanding job of contradicting their reassuring statements though; they keep saying there are no shortages, as Shapps did this morning, yet actions like temporary visas and relaxing competition laws don't exactly back up their words.

 

[DarloRich]

Are the governemt losing control of this?

People seem to have lost faith in the system

 

[dakta]

I doubt most people in petrol station queues, especially the longer this goes on, are actually panic buyers for the sake of it. If you need fuel, you need it

I did consider this but as queues are somewhat atypical it stands to reason there's a lot of people buying fuel now than there would be, obviously panic buying can range from 'argh there's a shortage in the news, lets fill the tank plus five jerry cans' to 'i normally stick £30 in but ill go a bit further and brim the tank to the top it up because i might not be able to if this goes on another few weeks'

Obviously ones slightly less panicked than the other. Personally i just want to get another £20 in as per routine.

 

[43096]

The "one of them" is probably an indictment of the tribal divisive society we're in now. I doubt most people in petrol station queues, especially the longer this goes on, are actually panic buyers for the sake of it. If you need fuel, you need it and will try and find somewhere to go for it.

I'd disagree. Given that the queues are not something we'd normally see, it therefore follows that the majority of people in those queues must be panic buying. Unless there is suddenly now a big increase in the mileage people are doing, it cannot be long until demand drops: hopefully supplies will get to the petrol stations to allow those who really do need fuel to fill up without the queues.

Personally I'd put a minimum spend of, say, £30 on anyone buying petrol or diesel. That way if the panicking idiots turn up wanting to top up with £10 worth, they would soon get the message when £10 of fuel cost them £30. Call it an idiot tax, if you like.

 

[Cowley]

Are the governemt losing control of this?

People seem to have lost faith in the system

It just feels to me that with everything being so interlocked if you pull at one thread everything falls apart rapidly.
The system only works if all of it works, but it’s all a bit more fragile than we realise sometimes.

 

[brad465]

I did consider this but as queues are somewhat atypical it stands to reason there's a lot of people buying fuel now than there would be, obviously panic buying can range from 'argh there's a shortage in the news, lets fill the tank plus five jerry cans' to 'i normally stick £30 in but ill go a bit further and brim the tank to the top it up because i might not be able to if this goes on another few weeks'

Obviously ones slightly less panicked than the other. Personally i just want to get another £20 in as per routine.

I'd disagree. Given that the queues are not something we'd normally see, it therefore follows that the majority of people in those queues must be panic buying. Unless there is suddenly now a big increase in the mileage people are doing, it cannot be long until demand drops: hopefully supplies will get to the petrol stations to allow those who really do need fuel to fill up without the queues.

Personally I'd put a minimum spend of, say, £30 on anyone buying petrol or diesel. That way if the panicking idiots turn up wanting to top up with £10 worth, they would soon get the message when £10 of fuel cost them £30. Call it an idiot tax, if you like.

I went cycling for 2 hours earlier, covering 35 miles of unique roads, where I counted 4 petrol stations with long queues outside, and at least as many, if not more, with no queues and some form of fencing/cordon that implied they had no petrol. If all these petrol stations had fuel supplies and were open, those wanting fuel would likely spread out more amongst them. But when less supply points become available, it's natural for customers to concentrate more towards the fewer supply points available.

I'm not suggesting nobody is panic buying at all, but I'm confident there is more than meets the eye.

By the way, I wouldn't not advocate any form of "idiot tax" without major reforms to our education systems first. While there are idiots for the sake of it, there are plenty who are ill-informed/educated because our education systems don't teach what needs teaching, such as critical thinking, nor are fully up to standard for other reasons, not just in schools but workplaces and other areas as well.

 

[XAM2175]

Personally I'd put a minimum spend of, say, £30 on anyone buying petrol or diesel. That way if the panicking idiots turn up wanting to top up with £10 worth, they would soon get the message when £10 of fuel cost them £30. Call it an idiot tax, if you like.

That perversely encourages people to buy as much as they can in one go - at least at the moment people can choose to take an amount they consider reasonable.

 

[AlterEgo]

Didn’t COVID-19 teach us how fragile the infrastructure of our own country was? I was shocked at how quickly it unravelled during the early stages of the pandemic and decided to be much more wary of incidents like the fuel shortage from the outset as a result.

 

[dakta]

"but I'm confident there is more than meets the eye."

Probably......

"ESSAR Oil UK says it "remains confident in its future", amid national press speculation the company – which has a refinery in Ellesmere Port – is on the brink of collapse.

Reports suggested the fuel giant, which supplies about a sixth of Britain's road fuel, was facing a deadline to repay hundreds of millions of pounds to HM Revenue & Customs in deferred taxes."


Now to be fair, I'm not suggesting the two issues are linked (after all in the latter case they are still operating) but still.. The timing of the news is apt though, got to give ten points to Slytherin for that.

 

[brad465]

A number of papers are now reporting the army are either being drafted in, or a decision will be made Monday (now today) to get them drafted in to deliver fuel. If apparent shortages are down to a shortage of HGV drivers, the Army may well be needed for a while.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

A good idea in principle, but what happens if someone fills up the remainder of their tank and it comes to less than £30? They've got nowhere else to put fuel to get it up to £30, unless the mandate also included bringing a sufficiently sized empty can along, and it's not easy/quick to remove the fuel loaded in.

It's not a good idea in principle at all. Much like the assumed ease (by certain members of this site) of switching to electric vehicles, it's a sure-fire way of making sure that those of lower incomes are priced off the road.

 

[Starmill]

It's not a good idea in principle at all. Much like the assumed ease (by certain members of this site) of switching to electric vehicles, it's a sure-fire way of making sure that those of lower incomes are priced off the road.

Panic buying is also pricing people off the road. For example, the cheapest lines of fuel generally are sold out first, leaving people with the choice between paying more for the premium line or taking the now real risk of not being able to get any. The same applies to making people spend more in fuel driving around to different filling stations looking, and to the cheapest ones selling out the soonest, for example now the motorway filling stations are generally still supplied but they're likely to be charging 150p or more.

Not that I'm suggesting my support for the idea proposed.

 

[Cowley]

Didn’t COVID-19 teach us how fragile the infrastructure of our own country was? I was shocked at how quickly it unravelled during the early stages of the pandemic and decided to be much more wary of incidents like the fuel shortage from the outset as a result.

I think so too. We’re only a few steps away from things crumbling rapidly once things start unravelling, and personally speaking I’m keeping an eye on how things are going for my family’s sake these days (I know that I’m sounding like a tinfoil hat merchant saying that but I’m just trying to be realistic).
Hopefully everything will be fine but it’s not a given necessarily as this week has shown us. Some kind of competent government might be useful at this point that represents those of us that that just want a competent erm, government…

Panic buying is also pricing people off the road. For example, the cheapest lines of fuel generally are sold out first, leaving people with the choice between paying more for the premium line or taking the now real risk of not being able to get any. The same applies to making people spend more in fuel driving around to different filling stations looking, and to the cheapest ones selling out the soonest, for example now the motorway filling stations are generally still supplied but they're likely to be charging 150p or more.

Not that I'm suggesting my support for the idea proposed.

There was a petrol station near us that during the last fuel crisis the owner doubled the price of fuel as his tanks were full and he decided to cash in. Once the crisis was over though everyone in the area boycotted him because they thought he was an absolute disgrace and the petrol station went bust a few months later.
Sometimes there is some justice in world thankfully…

Edit - It’s the Daily Mail but it’s all I could find online…

Drivers charged up to £2 a litre as petrol station bosses cash in on fuel crisis

Petrol station bosses were accused of profiteering yesterday after it was revealed that a garage was charging up to £2 a litre at the pumps.

www.dailymail.co.uk

He said: 'I am trying to stop people panic-buying.

'People have been buying hundreds of pounds worth of fuel instead of the usual £5 or £6.

'It slowed down after I put the price up and the result is I've still got fuel left.

'It's been chaos and it's still chaos. I've never seen anything like it in 30 years of petrol retailing.'

He added: 'We're not being mean. I would say I'm a very nice person.

Sure…

 

[Busaholic]

I think you are being a little unfair. It is not reasonable to expect otherwise unnecessary facilities to be maintained for only occasional use, especially as H&S regulations have considerably tightened up on the storage of fuel and fuel companies charge extra for small deliveries.
At times like this there are complaints about this 'costcutting', but when everything is running smoothly moan about the profligacy of having own tanks. They cannot win.

Private Eye magazine have regularly reported over the last few years on the shortsighted, nay, insane, decision to abolish GB's gas storage system when every other European country, which we are mostly in competition with over supplies when it comes to the cut, has maintained or even increased their storage capacity. Rather reminds me of the Wise v Foolish Virgins parable in the Bible. I see nobody, other than Tories, hedge funds and other antisocial elements complain about sensible housekeeping, which equates to profligacy in your view! Using H and S as an excuse has little credibility, certainly in the case of many police stations which are basically mini-fortresses.

 

[Gloster]

Totally irrelevant, but I have just bought a car, which came with around half a tank, as I am moving house tomorrow (d.v.). I should have tanked up when I bought it but didn’t bother as I will only be going backwards and forwards for around half a mile: I was actually more concerned about whether the battery would run down because of insufficient time to recharge after each start. I am now wondering whether there will be a slowdown in sales in a week to ten days as distribution gets back to near-normality and all those who would usually put a gallon or two in their tank every week or so, suddenly realise that they have got enough to last three months.

 

[Cowley]

It's not a good idea in principle at all. Much like the assumed ease (by certain members of this site) of switching to electric vehicles, it's a sure-fire way of making sure that those of lower incomes are priced off the road.

That’s always been my worry when it comes to minimum wage earning rural young families that live in remote areas of the southwest (this goes for the rural parts of the rest of the country too of course).
Scraping together a few hundred quid to get a car and have some quality of life is a manageable stretch. Scraping the money together to afford the cheapest electric car on the market which will still cost multiples of thousands of pounds no matter how you look at it is completely unachievable, yet it’s these people that genuinely have fewer transport options than most of society and they were born in these areas with all of the associated roots that tie them there.

 

[Gloster]

Ah, but to those who make the rules, the attitude is, “If they can’t afford to live there, then they should move.” With the unsaid addition, “And allow those who can to move in and buy a second home.”

 

[Cowley]

Totally irrelevant, but I have just bought a car, which came with around half a tank, as I am moving house tomorrow (d.v.). I should have tanked up when I bought it but didn’t bother as I will only be going backwards and forwards for around half a mile: I was actually more concerned about whether the battery would run down because of insufficient time to recharge after each start. I am now wondering whether there will be a slowdown in sales in a week to ten days as distribution gets back to near-normality and all those who would usually put a gallon or two in their tank every week or so, suddenly realise that they have got enough to last three months.

Your battery will be absolutely fine and good luck with your move tomorrow.
I don’t know how this will go as this government seem to be spectacularly good at slamming face first into the completely avoidable, however as with lots of these things, it happens, we flap about, and then we move on.
Hopefully this’ll be one of those occasions!

 

[Dai Corner]

I'm guessing most of those posting in this thread are too young to remember the 1973 oil crisis when motorists were issued with ration books and implored not to make any unnecessary journeys?

The last few days are just a minor blip in comparison.

By the way, I went to my local (unmanned) petrol station earlier. There was no queue, but no Diesel and I was only allowed to buy £30 worth of petrol per transaction. I could have bought another £30 worth in another transaction (perhaps having to use a different card).

 

[GB]

Personally I'd put a minimum spend of, say, £30 on anyone buying petrol or diesel. That way if the panicking idiots turn up wanting to top up with £10 worth, they would soon get the message when £10 of fuel cost them £30. Call it an idiot tax, if you like.

How will that help with the supply when those just filling up £10-15 would just put the rest in fuel cans?

 

[DelayRepay]

What surprises me, if Social Media is to be believed, is how many people regularly drive around on almost empty. There have been loads of posts locally from people claiming to be 'on the red'. I never let my fuel get that low because I don't want to get stuck and/or end up paying 'desperate' prices on the motorway.

I wonder if today, for some people, this will be the new furlough. 'Sorry boss, can't come in today, no petrol'?

 

[185143]

I'm guessing most of those posting in this thread are too young to remember the 1973 oil crisis when motorists were issued with ration books and implored not to make any unnecessary journeys?

The last few days are just a minor blip in comparison.

By the way, I went to my local (unmanned) petrol station earlier. There was no queue, but no Diesel and I was only allowed to buy £30 worth of petrol per transaction. I could have bought another £30 worth in another transaction (perhaps having to use a different card).

If that's an Asda, it's not that simple.

Went to my local before I boarded this train, pre-6AM. Another car and a van were already there filling up. They had a £30 limit but my car was running just into the red, so that's about £45. I wouldn't usually leave it so low, I normally fill up as soon as it goes into the red, but I've been on annual leave for 3 weeks and not used the car once. Put as much fuel as they'd let me have which took it to around the 3/4 mark. Ended the transaction, put my card in again and it wouldn't authorise a second transaction.

 

[SteveM70]

Anyone have any idea how many Army truck drivers have an ADR licence?

 

[DelayRepay]

Anyone have any idea how many Army truck drivers have an ADR licence?

As far as I can work out, Operation Escalin is an existing plan for the Army to assist with fuel deliveries. I think it was part of the set of original Brexit contingency measures. So one would assume they have enough drivers who are able to step in.

They probably won't actually need too many, because they'll be supplementing the existing pool of drivers.

I wonder how long it will be before the government reduce the requirements to obtain the ADR licence though?

 

[Dai Corner]

If that's an Asda, it's not that simple.

Went to my local before I boarded this train, pre-6AM. Another car and a van were already there filling up. They had a £30 limit but my car was running just into the red, so that's about £45. I wouldn't usually leave it so low, I normally fill up as soon as it goes into the red, but I've been on annual leave for 3 weeks and not used the car once. Put as much fuel as they'd let me have which took it to around the 3/4 mark. Ended the transaction, put my card in again and it wouldn't authorise a second transaction.

Yes it was an Asda filling station.

As it is unmanned, unless they use number plate recognition cameras to prevent multiple purchases for the same vehicle I suspect using a different card would have worked. Unfortunately the £30 worth filled my tank so I wasn't able to experiment.

It's interesting to find out that the technology allows a limit to be set.

 

[Starmill]

Hopefully the delivery issues don't imply that any bus, railway or other service vehicle depots will be running dangerously low on diesel. Unfortunately of course lots of delivery vans etc have pretty much just got to sit in the queues with everyone else which isn't ideal.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I'm guessing most of those posting in this thread are too young to remember the 1973 oil crisis when motorists were issued with ration books and implored not to make any unnecessary journeys?

The last few days are just a minor blip in comparison.

By the way, I went to my local (unmanned) petrol station earlier. There was no queue, but no Diesel and I was only allowed to buy £30 worth of petrol per transaction. I could have bought another £30 worth in another transaction (perhaps having to use a different card).

I am old enough but my parents didn't own/need a car. And I don't remember there being that many cars on the road back than compared to today

Amazingly, the Shell garage opposite my work this morning still had fuel; people were going absolutely crazy trying to barge their way in and blocking the bus lanes...

 

[duncanp]

I wonder if today, for some people, this will be the new furlough. 'Sorry boss, can't come in today, no petrol'?

Or just the new excuse for lazy and inefficient companies and public bodies not to do anything.

Instead of "..Due to COVID-19 we are unable to...." it will be "...Due to lack of fuel supplies we are unable to...."

 

[gg1]

Personally I'd put a minimum spend of, say, £30 on anyone buying petrol or diesel.

The majority of bikers would be utterly screwed if that was the case.

 

[brad465]

I'm guessing most of those posting in this thread are too young to remember the 1973 oil crisis when motorists were issued with ration books and implored not to make any unnecessary journeys?

The last few days are just a minor blip in comparison.

By the way, I went to my local (unmanned) petrol station earlier. There was no queue, but no Diesel and I was only allowed to buy £30 worth of petrol per transaction. I could have bought another £30 worth in another transaction (perhaps having to use a different card).

I don't know what proportion of drivers use electric vehicles and current working from home rates, but these will be helping to an extent, even if without them we'd still be better than in 1973.