ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[al78]

The railways in Scotland have never been a revenue earner. The E and G was the only route that made a profit. We will never be in a position where vast profit is made from the railways and a certain amount of public subsidy is required to provide that public service. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing as I suspect most Rail networks require government funding to some degree.

Do the Glasgow/Edinburgh routes to London and places in between make a profit (i.e. the northern portion of the East and West Coast main lines?

It's not a question of turning a profit, or indeed of even covering substantially all of the costs commercially. It's just a question of justifying that the operational subsidy is value for money i.e. it shouldn't be spent somewhere else instead.

I thought there was more to it than purely money. I can't imagine the far north line makes a profit and serves a huge number of people regularly given it runs through some of the most sparsely populated areas in Europe, yet it survived the Beeching axe. I can see it would get a lot of tourist traffic but that is seasonal.

I wonder why they have never built a rail bridge over the Dornoch Firth, it would significantly shorten the route to Thurso/Wick.

 

[dk1]

For the commonwealth games wasn't there an enhanced payment made to prevent disruption during that period? Presume the same would happen for COP26 if the Scottish Government want it.

During 2012 Olympics we at GA where given enhancements & bonuses if no sickness was taken during that Summer. Was very successful in reducing absences.

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder why they have never built a rail bridge over the Dornoch Firth, it would significantly shorten the route to Thurso/Wick.

Because it cost too much for what is essentially 200 passengers a day.

 

[Starmill]

I thought there was more to it than purely money.

There is. It's whether the opex that comes from public funds is value for money. That accounts for the monetised benefits of people using rail instead of other modes, for example. No railway route in Scotland (probably no route anywhere in Britain and Ireland) can really be considered to be making a "profit" now although people have in the past claimed that the E&G mainline would earn enough to cover all of its opex.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Offer from ScotRail rejected by the RMT.

 

[Fat Pav]

Offer from ScotRail rejected by the RMT.

Yes, because of the conditions attached to the offer. One of which was that booking offices would be cut in the process. Well done to RMT for rejecting this.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Any idea which booking offices? Was it the lot?

 

[43066]

You really shouldn’t need to offer an enhanced payment to staff already widely recognised as relatively well rewarded just to preform their normal duties , minimum wage hospitality cleaning & security roles etc yes by all means do .

We should be very clear that an enhanced payment for overtime doesn’t relate to “normal duties”, as it rewards extra time, voluntarily spent at work. If people aren’t sufficiently incentivised to spend their days off working, they simply won’t volunteer to do it!

 

[Fat Pav]

Any idea which booking offices? Was it the lot?

I don’t actually know, we receive text updates and the line used was:

”I am writing to advise that Abellio Scotrail failed to table a meaningful offer at today’s pay talks. The company made a reckless offer of 2.2% dependent on a raft of unacceptable cuts including booking office closures. This was unacceptable to the RMT.”

Booking offices are certainly on the chopping board and any wage rises would have to be self funded, but not like this. Finger then pointed at other staff and the company gets off without much / any blame.

 

[Starmill]

Reckless means without regard to some danger, or without caution. A pretty bizarre term to use to describe the offer of a 2.2% pay increase.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

It's difficult to comment without knowing exactly what was on the table.

 

[Horizon22]

2.2% is hardly "reckless" given its been 0.0% for most of the industry. Sneaky to link it into potential booking office cuts though (its worth taking a hard look at their future, but I'd hardly say in a pay negotiation is the right time) although most take RMT releases with a significant pinch of salt.

 

[43066]

2.2% is hardly "reckless" given its been 0.0% for most of the industry. Sneaky to link it into potential booking office cuts though (its worth taking a hard look at their future, but I'd hardly say in a pay negotiation is the right time) although most take RMT releases with a significant pinch of salt.

Agreed, poor choice of words re. “reckless”, also (sadly) agreed re. the future of ticket offices.

As for cynically linking a pay offer to ticket office closures, that’s entirely believable, and hopefully gives some insight into just how dog eat dog, and downright unpleasant, industrial relations on the railway can be. There’s a time and a place!

 

[Bald Rick]

I’d say making a 2.2% pay offer *is* reckless - in the context of being a reckless use of public money !

 

[320320]

Abellio to make a formal offer to drivers on Tuesday, after today’s talks. They’ve taken Aslefs proposals to Transport Scotland to get funding and approval.

Hopefully they’re sensible about it and save any more disruption to the customer.

 

[maradona10]

I’d say making a 2.2% pay offer *is* reckless - in the context of being a reckless use of public money !

That’s a pretty snide attitude towards workers who have gone without a payrise for 2 years and have worked throughout the pandemic. I can never and will never understand why people grudge workers receiving a fair payrise

 

[Bald Rick]

That’s a pretty snide attitude towards workers who have gone without a payrise for 2 years and have worked throughout the pandemic. I can never and will never understand why people grudge workers receiving a fair payrise

I am one of those workers who has gone without a pay rise for 2 years (with at least another year to go), and worked throughout the pandemic.

 

[maradona10]

I am one of those workers who has gone without a pay rise for 2 years (with at least another year to go), and worked throughout the pandemic.

I assume that you feel as though you don’t deserve a payrise, then? Weird position to take

 

[Starmill]

I’d say making a 2.2% pay offer *is* reckless - in the context of being a reckless use of public money !

I think if it's true that it's being self-funded then perhaps not, but I guess that wasn't good enough so...

I assume that you feel as though you don’t deserve a payrise, then? Weird position to take

It actually sounds to me like the poster thinks instead that the money would be better spent on something else?

 

[Bald Rick]

I assume that you feel as though you don’t deserve a payrise, then? Weird position to take

No, I recognise that the industry has lost £8bn of income in the last 18 months, and is continuing to lose about 30-40% of its future income (£3-4bn) on an ongoing basis. The industry (and Government) has been very kind to us: Very few furloughed, very few redundancies. Compare to the airlines.

For the industry to survive there must be a significant reduction in costs. Demanding a payrise at this time is just madness. It will make things worse for those involved.

 

[hello]

No, I recognise that the industry has lost £8bn of income in the last 18 months, and is continuing to lose about 30-40% of its future income (£3-4bn) on an ongoing basis. The industry (and Government) has been very kind to us: Very few furloughed, very few redundancies. Compare to the airlines.

For the industry to survive there must be a significant reduction in costs. Demanding a payrise at this time is just madness. It will make things worse for those involved.

From what has just been said above, it seems that scotrail have offered a pay rise, to which the rmt have rejected as it would incur job losses

 

[Starmill]

It will make things worse for those involved.

It's almost as if Transport Scotland have a statutory duty to administer and fund transport services in a whole country, and across all modes, not merely ScotRail. If they were to breach that duty by, say, signing off spending on a pay rise which they knew would exceed their budget, or perhaps worse, divert money from another area such as active travel funding or Highlands and Islands air subsidies to ScotRail, it would almost certainly be unlawful.

 

[maradona10]

No, I recognise that the industry has lost £8bn of income in the last 18 months, and is continuing to lose about 30-40% of its future income (£3-4bn) on an ongoing basis. The industry (and Government) has been very kind to us: Very few furloughed, very few redundancies. Compare to the airlines.

For the industry to survive there must be a significant reduction in costs. Demanding a payrise at this time is just madness. It will make things worse for those involved.

Comparing to the airlines is comparing apples and oranges, it is a different scenario entirely.
Saying they’ve been kind to ‘us’ just because there’s been no furloughs strikes me bizarre. Are you at ScotRail and are you a ticket examiner or a conductor?

 

[Starmill]

Saying they’ve been kind to ‘us’ just because there’s been no furloughs strikes me bizarre. Are you at ScotRail and are you a ticket examiner or a conductor?

Are you displeased that there have been no job losses, and that the proposed cuts are quite mild?

 

[maradona10]

Are you displeased that there have been no job losses, and that the proposed cuts are quite mild?

I’m a ticket examiner at ScotRail so I know the feeling amongst most of the grade. Why would I be displeased that there have been no job losses?

 

[Starmill]

I’m a ticket examiner at ScotRail so I know the feeling amongst most of the grade. Why would I be displeased that there have been no job losses?

So you accept that government policy has resulted in the protection of almost every job in the industry?

 

[maradona10]

So you accept that government policy has resulted in the protection of almost every job in the industry?

They’ve taken the decision not to sack people, for one reason or another. I don’t accept that because of that I’m somehow ‘lucky’ just to have my job and should be grateful for it, as Grant Schapps said recently. If you accept whatever you’re given on that basis we will see ourselves increasingly considerably worse off as the years go by. At which point is it ok for workers who are showing up and working every single day to cease accepting paycuts , in your view?

 

[Horizon22]

I assume that you feel as though you don’t deserve a payrise, then? Weird position to take

I am of the same stance. Of course I'd like a payrise (who doesn't), but can see that actually the railway has had very favourable terms these past 18 months. Lots of people are displeased and I'm no fan of a "race to the bottom" but there needs to be at least some understanding of the drastic realities of railway finances which have basically be hidden from the view of most railway staff. Unfortunately some do not have this (still) and have been used to above inflation pay-rises year after year.

Frankly 2.2% is likely the best offer going anywhere in the UK right now on the railway and comparatively high compared to many sectors (unless you've got an HGV licence!).

 

[Bald Rick]

Comparing to the airlines is comparing apples and oranges, it is a different scenario entirely.
Saying they’ve been kind to ‘us’ just because there’s been no furloughs strikes me bizarre. Are you at ScotRail and are you a ticket examiner or a conductor?

It’s not a different scenario - one is a transport industry that has been fully supported through Covid by the Government as it’s revenue collapsed, the other is a transport industry that hasn’t.

I’m not at ScotRail, and you will clearly know the strength of feeling in the grade better than I do - I completely respect that.

But, and I can’t stress this enough, these are very tough times for the industry, and that means all of us have a part to play. It will be a smaller railway in future - at least in terms of passenger numbers and numbers of services (see the ScotRail or SWR consultations; these won’t be the last). There is a limit to how much money Government(s) will be willing to fund a railway with fewer passengers. A lot of people will be leaving the industry - some have already left. The more expensive we make ourselves, the more people will need to leave. It’s that simple.

 

[Starmill]

They’ve taken the decision not to sack people, for one reason or another.

This could still be done, in order to fund a pay rise. But you're unhappy with that too?

I don’t accept that because of that I’m somehow ‘lucky’ just to have my job and should be grateful for it, as Grant Schapps said recently.

I don't agree with that, and I don't agree with Grant Shapps on just about everything.