Collision and derailment near Salisbury (Fisherton Tunnel) 31/10/21

[30907]

Apart from the relative lack of injuries, the other cause for thankfulness (reading RTT so public info) is that an eastbound GW passed the junction just before the SW.

 

[Iskra]

If the signals were not lit then the driver should have treated them as being their most restrictive aspect.

Maybe they did, and they just couldn't stop in time- possibly accentuated by the rail and weather conditions.

 

[physics34]

These photos have clearly been photographed off a screen. Whoever is leaking these images and other information from internal sources should be ashamed.

Im not overly fussed with the pics being leaked...(nothing to hide and all that) but im concerned about internal communica and reports being leaked.

 

[357]

Eyewitness told the BBC the following:

I'd say that around 100-150 passengers were taken off 2 trains at the station with vague descriptions of "an incident in the tunnel" that was initially blocking eastbound trains, after about 30 minutes it was advised that all trains will be cancelled and we started seeing people heading down the line with protective gear and head torches on. The platform was blocked off and remaining passengers were asked to congregate outside the front of the station, at times we were asked to move to allow various police and ambulance crews to enter the station

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Is the junction layout a diamond or a pair of single lead turnouts and up-down facing crossover? I wonder if the southbound GWR passing the junction has any bearing on the route the SWR service has taken to come into collision with the preceding GWR.

 

[shakey1961]

From the Telegraph Website:

"It is understood that the 1708 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads train, a Great Western service, hit an object as it came out of a tunnel near Salisbury station and the rear carriage derailed."

Salisbury train crash: Driver left with 'life-changing' injuries

Both trains were travelling in the same direction when one train struck the side of the other, causing it to derail whilst in the tunnel

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[alxndr]

Maybe they did, and they just couldn't stop in time- possibly accentuated by the rail and weather conditions.

I was only trying to answer the question as to what a driver should do if the signal was not lit correctly. I have no idea what did/didn't take place here and have no wish to speculate, hence the heavy emphasis in my original post on the "if".

 

[MadMac]

Do we know this to be true?

The reports say the signalling was knocked out. We don't know how that happened. It's quite possible that the signal protecting the tunnel was no longer operating correctly. The cabling could easily have been damaged during the train derailment.

I'm also glad that everyone seems to be (relatively) unscathed.

Entirely possible for the cables to have been damaged by the derailment, but (if, and it’s a BIG ‘if’, that’s what happened) damaged in such a way as to give a proceed aspect to a following train, especially when there’s two ways to approach from? That’s sheer bad luck. I can’t think of another instance of something like that happening. The full circumstances will come out in time.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Forgive me for asking but would the engines have automatically cut out - the last thing you want when 2 diesel trains end up like this in a tunnel is for the tunnel to fill with carbon monoxide.

I'm well relieved that there were no fatalities on both trains!

 

[bramling]

If power to this area is fed through the tunnel and the cable has been severed that would lead to dark signals so plausible but not sure what drivers responsibilities are in this situation.

No aspect is a danger signal.

If the signals were not lit then the driver should have treated them as being their most restrictive aspect.

Something which unfortunately isn’t that easy to do in practice in darkness.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Entirely possible for the cables to have been damaged by the derailment, but (if, and it’s a BIG ‘if’, that’s what happened) damaged in such a way as to give a proceed aspect to a following train, especially when there’s two ways to approach from? That’s sheer bad luck. I can’t think of another instance of something like that happening. The full circumstances will come out in time.

I suppose an advantage of axle counters is that a unit leaving the rails entirely can't result in a section appearing empty. I assume the signalling isn't clever enough to realise that a train "disappearing", i.e. leaving a block but not having entered the next one, hasn't actually left it?

 

[zwk500]

From the Telegraph Website "It is understood that the 1708 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads train, a Great Western service, hit an object as it came out of a tunnel near Salisbury station and the rear carriage derailed."

This is speculation at this time. Wait for the RAIB.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Politics For All has leaked the incident report on Twitter

WICC: Incident Message Red: 1F30/1L53 derailment and collision

1F30 has struck an object in Fishwrton tunnel on the down line approaching Salisbury.
1F30 has derailed in the tunnel and 1L53 has then struck 1F30.
Both trains are derailed and 1F30 is on its side.
No injuries reported on 1L53. The driver is trapped in the cab and its unknown if they are injured.
No information on the passengers and crew on 1F30.
Multiple staff on en route and emergency services have declared this as a critical incident

 

[507 001]

That, has not gone well.

 

[30907]

Is the junction layout a diamond or a pair of single lead turnouts and up-down facing crossover? I wonder if the southbound GWR passing the junction has any bearing on the route the SWR service has taken to come into collision with the preceding GWR.

Conventional double junction.

 

[thenorthern]

The Politics For All Twitter account has just tweeted what they described as an exclusive picture of the trains in the tunnel. I have attached a link below and the photo.

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1454919569907257344/photo/1

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wow, that looks bad. Lucky escape for all on board. Also very lucky it didn't result in fuel everywhere and the possible effects of that in a tunnel which don't really bear thinking about.

In some ways not dissimilar to the collision in the tunnel north of Watford a few years ago?

 

[paulmch]

Whoever from the industry has leaked the control logs and images of the incident should have the book thrown at them...

 

[bramling]

I suppose an advantage of axle counters is that a unit leaving the rails entirely can't result in a section appearing empty. I assume the signalling isn't clever enough to realise that a train "disappearing", i.e. leaving a block but not having entered the next one, hasn't actually left it?

It’s certainly technically possible to design signalling such that track circuits must be operated in a logical order, and for signals to be turned to danger if an irregularity is detected.

 

[brad465]

The Politics For All Twitter account has just tweeted what they described as an exclusive picture of the trains in the tunnel. I have attached a link below and the photo.

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1454919569907257344/photo/1

Comments on that tweet include jokes about bad parking and GTA. Too soon?

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Whoever from the industry has leaked the control logs and images of the incident should have the book thrown at them...

I agree, I shared the image from politics for all and typed it out for accessibility purposes for our visually impaired readers so I hope no thanks I'm glorifying it just helping out

 

[gavin]

BTP have confirmed no one has died

https://twitter.com/BTP/status/1454918295669420033?s=20

Officers are continuing to respond to the incident at Fisherton Tunnel. A number of people have been injured, but thankfully no one has died. Updates will continue to be shared here.

 

[AzureOtsu]

i was on the train behind this at andover when i was directed back to basingstoke. sitting with a signaller who works at salisbury and he says he had no idea until i told him what happened

 

[_toommm_]

Let's remember aswell that this forum has been quoted before in the media, with the speculation being took as fact. There's currently 850 guests browsing this thread, and we wouldn't want anything that's conjecture on here to be publicised as fact.

 

[43096]

Do we know that 1L53 was definitely involved? Reason I ask is that 159102 (which is the incident unit) shows as having been on the rear of 1L49 and detached at Salisbury.

 

[D6130]

Is the junction layout a diamond or a pair of single lead turnouts and up-down facing crossover? I wonder if the southbound GWR passing the junction has any bearing on the route the SWR service has taken to come into collision with the preceding GWR.

It's a diamond crossing. Not enough room for a ladder junction.

 

[zwk500]

i was on the train behind this at andover when i was directed back to basingstoke. sitting with a signaller who works at salisbury and he says he had no idea until i told him what happened

Of course the bloke next to you on the train, who happens to be a signaller, wouldn't know as he's not on duty!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

BTP have confirmed no one has died

https://twitter.com/BTP/status/1454918295669420033?s=20

Thank god. It looks really nasty.

 

[Bletchleyite]

BTP have confirmed no one has died

https://twitter.com/BTP/status/1454918295669420033?s=20

Thank goodness for that.

 

[357]

Of course the bloke next to you on the train, who happens to be a signaller, wouldn't know as he's not on duty!

You'd be surprised how much staff who are not working know about incidents that happen when they are off.