Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[computerSaysNo]

I seriously doubt the back roads around Drummond St/the Adam Sts are suitable for this - I definitely agree with the other posters suggesting a slightly longer, but simpler route via W Richmond St.

I would actually agree with you now; when I was looking at the possible routes before I posted that, I had looked on Street View and those roads looks alright, but I passed them this morning in person and they are much narrower than they appear online.

 

[90019]

I think there was only 2 of these ever at Lothian Buses and if memory serves me right, this was sold and converted into a open-top bus then subsequently sold to another company where it re-recieved a roof.

999 was the only one, IIRC it was a long term loan.

 

[Acfb]

A good summary!

I've struggled to keep up with more recent developments, but I remember the 1980s Leith - Stockbridge - Dean Bridge - City Centre service being part of the 34/35, the "kind of a circular, kind of an out-and-back" service from Sighthill to Sighthill (back when Sighthill was one of the most common termini you'd see on destination screens, along with Newhaven - I'm showing my age!)

From memory it was Sighthill - Fountainbridge - Tolcross - Royal Mile - North Bridge - Leith Street - Lochend - Foot of the Walk - Stockbridge - Dean Bridge - Tolcross - Fountainbridge - Sighthill (the city centre routing showing why the Eastern Scottish City Sprinters did well, since they gave places like Lochend and Dalry Road direct services to all of Princes Street)

As far as I can remember, the services were diverted via Longstone/ Slateford to replace the 28/29 - this may have been during the big changes of around April 2000 (?) which saw the 34/35 revised into two separate services, the 34 being a fairly straightforward Sighthill - Fountainbridge - Tolcross - Princes Street - Leith Street - Lochend - Foot of the Walk - Ocean Terminal (i.e. similar to much of the old route but via Princes Street) whereas the 35 became more like Sighthill - Fountainbridge - Tolcross - Royal Mile - Holyrood - Easter Road - Foot of the Walk - Stockbridge - Dean Bridge - Tolcross, with the 35a the other way (?), a bit like a large number nine. The Stockbridge bit was spun off into a stand alone service with the 35 extended to Ocean Terminal.

I'm surprised that the 36 has survived and seems a busy enough commercial route - I thought that it'd go the way of the 13 (i.e. tendered by the council) since it's not a particularly direct way between any major places (Leith and Stockbridge both having much more direct services into the heart of the city centre) - it's good to see that there are enough people for a service that skirts the edge of the city centre without either serving the heart or being a kind of "orbital" route

In fact, I'm a bit surprised that the 34 and 35 have both lasted as fairly frequent services, given that they don't quite go in straight lines - the changing travel demands of Edinburgh has contributed a lot to that (in my day, the service beyond Sighthill to Herriot Watt was just half hourly - 61, 22, 65 at different periods - but now there are so many University students and also college students wanting services along the A71 - the need for various places to have an Ocean Terminal service has helped too, keeping the northern end of the 34 and 35 busy

This is something I prefer about Edinburgh to Glasgow - Glasgow seems to be much more of a radial network, with fairly simple direct routes into the city centre, whereas Edinburgh has more variety in terms of the types of services

The 36 in a previous incarnation after the millennium used to be called the 58 and ran from Church Hill to the Gyle along a pretty similar route. It was later changed to be the 18 before it was scrapped and what was old 32/52 circle became the new 18 (now the 400).

It's quite a useful route to Edinburgh Park and the Gyle in addition to the 400 so I hope it sticks around.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I seriously doubt the back roads around Drummond St/the Adam Sts are suitable for this - I definitely agree with the other posters suggesting a slightly longer, but simpler route via W Richmond St.

To clarify the route I posted is the route the 35 will be using.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I would actually agree with you now; when I was looking at the possible routes before I posted that, I had looked on Street View and those roads looks alright, but I passed them this morning in person and they are much narrower than they appear online.

Lothian have now officially confirmed the 35 diversion is via the Pleasance and Dumbiedykes

Hi *****, service 35 will be diverted in both directions between Chambers Street and Easter Road, via Nicolson Street, West Richmond Street, Pleasance, Holyrood Road, Queen’s Drive, Horse Wynd and Abbeymount for the time being.

 

[DunsBus]

I seriously doubt the back roads around Drummond St/the Adam Sts are suitable for this - I definitely agree with the other posters suggesting a slightly longer, but simpler route via W Richmond St.

Drummond Street is also one way eastbound at the South Bridge end.

 

[Avenger20]

Why can't service 35 run via St. Mary's Street and turn onto Canongate from there? AIUI the closure is on the west side of the St. Mary's Street/Jeffrey Street junction?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Why can't service 35 run via St. Mary's Street and turn onto Canongate from there? AIUI the closure is on the west side of the St. Mary's Street/Jeffrey Street junction?

There’s a lane restriction over the junction that makes the turn quite tight. Temporary traffic lights are up as well.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Here is my map showing bus stops in Edinburgh city centre. It has been updated and is valid from the service change on the 14th of November 2021.
GitHub - 40414148/Lothian_Published <https://github.com/40414148/Lothian_Published>
To see the map, click the link above, click the file "Edinburgh City Centre from 2021-11-14_1.pdf", click Download, click Open, then zoom in.
Note that the background map has been rotated such that Princes Street is perfectly horizontal, for easier reading.
All the stops should be accurate, subject to the following notes:

• Stops on the new part of the 35 route have been guessed based on pre-existing stops on those roads.
• Stops for Borders Buses and Stagecoach on the North Bridge diversion route have been guessed.
• Southbound stops on North Bridge have been guessed based on the number and positioning of stops before North Bridge closed for renovation.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Here is my map showing bus stops in Edinburgh city centre. It has been updated and is valid from the service change on the 14th of November 2021.
GitHub - 40414148/Lothian_Published <https://github.com/40414148/Lothian_Published>
To see the map, click the link above, click the file "Edinburgh City Centre from 2021-11-14_1.pdf", click Download, click Open, then zoom in.
Note that the background map has been rotated such that Princes Street is perfectly horizontal, for easier reading.
All the stops should be accurate, subject to the following notes:

• Stops on the new part of the 35 route have been guessed based on pre-existing stops on those roads.
• Stops for Borders Buses and Stagecoach on the North Bridge diversion route have been guessed.
• Southbound stops on North Bridge have been guessed based on the number and positioning of stops before North Bridge closed for renovation.

As I suggested previously, I’d expect NC to remain where it is (outside Hilton/opposite Pizza Hut) and ND, NE staying closed as I believe it’s a single lane heading south up North Bridge, nothing else. So only 1 of the 4 lanes open if that makes sense. Time will tell come the 14th what exactly is happening though. I’d be very surprised if all buses started stopping on North Bridge again, but this is the City of Edinburgh Council we are talking about after all.

35 diversion’s stops looks bang on to me, the old terminus for the 6 on Horse Wynd isn’t included which would be correct as it was taken out.

 

[computerSaysNo]

As I suggested previously, I’d expect NC to remain where it is (outside Hilton/opposite Pizza Hut) and ND, NE staying closed as I believe it’s a single lane heading south up North Bridge, nothing else. So only 1 of the 4 lanes open if that makes sense. Time will tell come the 14th what exactly is happening though. I’d be very surprised if all buses started stopping on North Bridge again, but this is the City of Edinburgh Council we are talking about after all.

35 diversion’s stops looks bang on to me, the old terminus for the 6 on Horse Wynd isn’t included which would be correct as it was taken out.

So would I, but I checked the new timetables and all of the selection I checked listed North Bridge as a stop, which to me implies that they will stop there.
I agree that it's a bad idea though if there's only one lane staying open.
What was the rationale behind removing ND and NE on North Bridge but leaving NC open?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

So would I, but I checked the new timetables and all of the selection I checked listed North Bridge as a stop, which to me implies that they will stop there.
I agree that it's a bad idea though if there's only one lane staying open.
What was the rationale behind removing ND and NE on North Bridge but leaving NC open?

Yea, hopefully it is two lanes if it’s all back to normal stopping wise. Failing that they might do what northbound buses do at the minute and all stop at one stop (and unavoidably holding everything up in the process as well).

 

[BobScott]

There’s a lane restriction over the junction that makes the turn quite tight. Temporary traffic lights are up as well.

Edinburgh Tour, City Sightseeing, and Bright Bus Tour all make that turn.

 

[90019]

Yea, hopefully it is two lanes if it’s all back to normal stopping wise. Failing that they might do what northbound buses do at the minute and all stop at one stop (and unavoidably holding everything up in the process as well).

There's only going to be one lane, heading southbound, if there was two it wouldn't need to be shut northbound.

 

[Porty]

Yea, hopefully it is two lanes if it’s all back to normal stopping wise. Failing that they might do what northbound buses do at the minute and all stop at one stop (and unavoidably holding everything up in the process as well).

I disagree with the view that the current northbound stop holds everything up. Certainly at busier times, effectively most of the day, the "pinch point" is the light controlled Princes Street junction. Only a relatively small platoon of traffic gets through on every light change and it never reaches back to a stationary bus at the stop. Therefore, in my opinion, the stop's existence has had no material effect on traffic flow.

 

[GusB]

This is drifting too much towards being a discussion about roadworks and traffic lights. Please stay on topic.

 

[CN04NRJ]

676 onwards are starting to arrive at Central. I imagine this will see more of 401-425 move to Marine and B9TLs withdrawn.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

View attachment trim.82A32B5C-A82D-4872-8284-C0C9217BFA8E.MOV

For those who are unaware of the 35’s official revised diversion after the 14th November!

 

[Bus9120UK]

676 onwards are starting to arrive at Central. I imagine this will see more of 401-425 move to Marine and B9TLs withdrawn.

That's 667/8 and 673/4/5 at Longstone too. I'd imagine all Central drivers including you are very happy to see them arrive there!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

676 onwards are starting to arrive at Central. I imagine this will see more of 401-425 move to Marine and B9TLs withdrawn.

Can see these being a common sight on the 10 alongside 291-294. Failing that I’d imagine these will just be allocated to any applicable rota in common with most of Central’s routes.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Failing that I’d imagine these will just be allocated to any applicable rota in common with most of Central’s routes.

I see this happening tbh. At Central on decker routes anyway it seems basically anything appears on everything these days the only real consistencies are really the 7, 11, 16, 37 being allocated mostly XLBs and the 8 mostly being allocated 1051-1062 with a couple SN11s appearing some more days than others

 

[TRAX]

A little question - when Lothian converts a bus to Euro 6, does it mean the existing pre-Euro 6 engine is kept and modified, or that a new Euro 6 engine is fitted ?

 

[Graham Alexand]

A little question - when Lothian converts a bus to Euro 6, does it mean the existing pre-Euro 6 engine is kept and modified, or that a new Euro 6 engine is fitted ?

Pretty sure it's just a modification as on the ex London B9TL's.

 

[GusB]

A little question - when Lothian converts a bus to Euro 6, does it mean the existing pre-Euro 6 engine is kept and modified, or that a new Euro 6 engine is fitted ?

Pretty sure it's just a modification as on the ex London B9TL's.

I'm not an expert on such matters, but I'm fairly sure the original engine is kept; the process of making them Euro 6 compliant is in modifying the exhaust system, although there may be some engine tweaks.

 

[Graham Alexand]

I'm not an expert on such matters, but I'm fairly sure the original engine is kept; the process of making them Euro 6 compliant is in modifying the exhaust system, although there may be some engine tweaks.

Yeah, I had thought that but I didn't want to assume, thank you for that

 

[90019]

A little question - when Lothian converts a bus to Euro 6, does it mean the existing pre-Euro 6 engine is kept and modified, or that a new Euro 6 engine is fitted ?

The original engine is kept, but fitted with an SCR exhaust system that takes them to Euro 6.

 

[TRAX]

Thanks for the replies !

 

[Lothian_Bus]

I see this happening tbh. At Central on decker routes anyway it seems basically anything appears on everything these days the only real consistencies are really the 7, 11, 16, 37 being allocated mostly XLBs and the 8 mostly being allocated 1051-1062 with a couple SN11s appearing some more days than others

Yes the 31 is usually more than 50% XLB's during the week (more at weekends) but the rest is always a mix. Presumably 5 more buses from (1001-1050) will now move from Longstone to Marine as well.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Presumably 5 more buses from (1001-1050) will now move from Longstone to Marine as well.

I’m thinking 1016-1017 to Central and then 1022-1024 to Marine. Marine also getting the rest of 401-425 in the process as a result of 676-690 to Central.

 

[stantheman]

307 seems to have gone at last
951 to 960 seem to have spent their life on the 5 and wonder if they will survive the new Marine influx ?