Masks again

[farleigh]

Of course. Will you and all the others also admit defeat if I am right?


The UK is selfish for many reasons, I was not talking only about masks, but everyone else was.

Berliner - I take it 4 weeks equates with 'a few'

Lets see if you are right or proved wrong.

I think you will be wrong

 

[Berliner]

Berliner - I take it 4 weeks equates with 'a few'

Lets see if you are right or proved wrong.

I think you will be wrong

I don't have a numerical definition of "a few" but I am going to guess it will be before Christmas.

And I think you will be wrong, but hey, that's what opposing opinions are for!

 

[John Luxton]

We are winning this now.

If you do not want to wear a mask, be bold and stick to your principles.

It is easier than you think

100% agreement there

Do not enter into a discussion either.

 

[farleigh]

I don't have a numerical definition of "a few" but I am going to guess it will be before Christmas.

And I think you will be wrong, but hey, that's what opposing opinions are for!

Absolutely - no hard feelings.

I think you are wrong and misguided but if VP come in before CHristmas you win.

If not, you have been proved wrong.

Let's see.

 

[yorkie]

Of course. Will you and all the others also admit defeat if I am right?

I am predicting we will not get vaccine passports; if it happens then obviously I will at that point be wrong in my prediction. But my view will not change that they won't actually bring case rates down and I am very confident of that.

I may not have got everything right, but I think if you look at what I've said throughout the pandemic, I've got a lot more right than I got wrong...

While you may disagree with me on many of my views, the fact is I have 'done my homework' and done a lot of research. Not all 'experts' agree with each other, but then it comes down to judgement: does one believe Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) or Chise (@sailorrooscout), on matters such as vaccine effectiveness, for example?

There is no concept of 'the Science'; some scientists are clearly going to be proven wrong as they cannot all be right, and as the pandemic increasingly switches to the endemic stage, time is running out for those who advocated 'zero Covid' type policies...

The UK is selfish for many reasons, I was not talking only about masks, but everyone else was.

Yes, so you keep saying, but is Germany, Austria etc on the selfish list too? And of course what about Sweden? They must be number one on your selfish list, surely?

 

[Berliner]

I am predicting we will not get vaccine passports; if it happens then obviously I will at that point be wrong in my prediction. But my view will not change that they won't actually bring case rates down and I am very confident of that.


Yes, so you keep saying, but is Germany, Austria etc on the selfish list too?

I haven't spent enough time in Austria to determine it either way, but Germany is probably slightly selfish too, although not to the extent of the UK as they still have a more collective mindset and generally will do what's best for the masses rather than themselves, again, only based on what I have seen and the many Germans I know, I have nothing scientific to back this up, sorry.

 

[farleigh]

I haven't spent enough time in Austria to determine it either way, but Germany is probably slightly selfish too, although not to the extent of the UK as they still have a more collective mindset and generally will do what's best for the masses rather than themselves, again, only based on what I have seen and the many Germans I know, I have nothing scientific to back this up, sorry.

But you will post 'I was wrong' on here if no VP by Xmas??

I will if there are.

 

[yorksrob]

Of course. Will you and all the others also admit defeat if I am right?


The UK is selfish for many reasons, I was not talking only about masks, but everyone else was.

Ah yes, firstly, what have these other countries done that you've listed that makes them so selfless ?

Most of them have introduced lockdowns and restrictions at various times, so I'm intrigued how virtuous they actually are.

Secondly, let's come to the 'many reasons'.

And of course, were still yet to find out what country you represent.

 

[Berliner]

But you will post 'I was wrong' on here if no VP by Xmas??

I will if there are.

I already said I would.

Ah yes, firstly, what have these other countries done that you've listed that makes them so selfless ?

Most of them have introduced lockdowns and restrictions at various times, so I'm intrigued how virtuous they actually are.

Secondly, let's come to the 'many reasons'.

And of course, were still yet to find out what country you represent.

I'm not doing this, I'm going to bed.

 

[farleigh]

If there are Vaccine Passports in the UK before 25 December, I will post that I am wrong.

Berliner will do the same if there are none in the UK by that date.
Bit nervous but we will see

 

[yorksrob]

I already said I would.



I'm not doing this, I'm going to bed.

So you're not prepared to back up your assertions or let on who you're aligned to then.

 

[yorkie]

So you're not prepared to back up your assertions or let on who you're aligned to then.

It seems not; I reject @Berliner's suggestion that answering your question and going to bed are somehow mutually exclusive; it's hardly as if there is some deadline to reply by.

 

[yorksrob]

It seems not; I reject @Berliner's suggestion that answering your question and going to bed are somehow mutually exclusive; it's hardly as if there is some deadline to reply by.

Indeed. Well, we're always open.

 

[Berliner]

So you're not prepared to back up your assertions or let on who you're aligned to then.

Who I'm aligned to? What is this? The House Un-American Activities Committee? I thought this was a railway forum. Good God.

 

[brad465]

Of course. Will you and all the others also admit defeat if I am right?

The UK is selfish for many reasons, I was not talking only about masks, but everyone else was.

The many reasons can be found in the below point of mine earlier:

Unless you demand the Government deeply reform education to the point people are not selfish, and change the economic system to one which doesn't actually need selfishness to survive, the population will not become less selfish. People are not born with a particular mindset, they're taught it through external influences. Target those influences, not the individuals guilty.

While we're at it, I notice you didn't spot this post of mine in response to your argument about mask wearing not being the end of society, nor a serious restriction:

It will be the end of society if we keep dumping them in the oceans, rivers and other environments where their polluting effects impact the ecosystems we depend on for survival and a good quality of life.

Then look no further than those in Parliament who take their mask off to speak, why are they not keeping it on? Surely speaking is expelling more air and by definition more of whatever pathogens one might be infected with? Maybe it's because people can't understand someone properly when they speak with a mask on. In today's Downing Street briefing none of Johnson, Whitty and Vallance were wearing masks either, talk about not practising what they preach, but maybe again it's because they subconsciously know that wearing a mask impairs communication.

 

[yorksrob]

Who I'm aligned to? What is this? The House Un-American Activities Committee? I thought this was a railway forum. Good God.

If you're going to slur countries populations, you should at least have the decency to let on who you are.

 

[farleigh]

So you're not prepared to back up your assertions or let on who you're aligned to then.

I am a person of honour I hope.

If there are Vaccine Passports before 25 December in the UK I will post ' I WAS WRONG'

Berliner I believe is a person of honour and will do the same if he is wrong

 

[Yew]

I am predicting we will not get vaccine passports; if it happens then obviously I will at that point be wrong in my prediction. But my view will not change that they won't actually bring case rates down and I am very confident of that.

The question "Are vaccine passports a necessary and effective measure with clear evidence and a real requirement to be introduced?" is unfortunately different to "will the papers bully Boris into it?".

 

[david1212]

Thanks, I note one of the governments exemption reasons on their website is

• to avoid harm or injury, or the risk of harm or injury, to yourself or others

As I wear glasses that applies as the damn things steam up.

Interestingly the government website states "Carrying an exemption card or badge is a personal choice and is not required by law."

But they provide a template badge designed to be downloaded and shown on mobile phones

[Withdrawn] Face coverings: when to wear one, exemptions and what makes a good one

This page explains what face coverings are, including what makes a good one, when to wear a face covering and exemptions from wearing one.

www.gov.uk

That covers me then too

Printable badge downloaded to print at work next week, somewhere there must be a holder I can repurpose.

 

[Yew]

The risk of harm or injury? That sounds like a wonderfully low bar, almost to the point ob being basically unenforceable; "I wasn't wearing a mask due to the risk of it slipping over my eyes, falling over, and twisting my ankle" would be a 'risk of harm or injury' - unlikely, but a risk nonetheless.

 

[Darandio]

Just look at the back and forth on both sides here. It's abundantly clear the rule and divide strategy works wonders.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Oh joy, more ****ing restrictions. I thought it funny that a new variant just happens to appear around Christmas and my suspicions are being proven correct. I swear to god I hope the tories and labour get demolished in the next elections. Knew this would happen...

So what the **** was the point of getting vaccinated then? I shouldn't have wasted my ****ing time.

That is the message Boris is portraying, but he is wrong.

Correct but it doesn't make it any less of a slap in the face of the vaccinated. Government should be ashamed (but we all know those authoritarian tw@s won't be).

not waiting until he’s conferred with “Saj”.

I hope Javid tells him to do one.

Apologies if I missed it, but what is the reason that masks are being reimposed in these settings?

To be seen to be doing something, that's the reason. Also is a good test of public acceptance.

I'll be doing the bare minimum, they have squandered every scrap of goodwill I had through their lies and their hypocrisy.

Yep and they had it coming as well.

Yes, the UK is inherently selfish.

Good. About time we start being more selfish.

Living with covid is not letting it run riot, that is a recipe for a new lockdown.

So we should live in constant fear of it? I'm too young to remember SARS but I don't recall ever hearing about this much of a reaction to it.

I’d rather be in the UK with a population who are apparently “inherently selfish” but by definition apparently capable of applying their own thought to a given situation. History contains numerous examples of countries where this hasn’t happened, including in Europe.

^^^THIS^^^

Explain how England voted for Brexit in sufficient majority to drag the whole UK out then?

Answered your own question there. It's something called democracy.

Japan

Suffers from high suicide and covid rates. Also quite xenophobic.

NZ

Run by a crazed megalomaniac.

the Scandinavian countries

Sweden's PM resigned on her first day in office.

Canada

Run by a cucked, hypocritical moron, who's only there thanks to infighting in opposing parties and daddy's coattails.

Who I'm aligned to? What is this? The House Un-American Activities Committee? I thought this was a railway forum. Good God.

I thought you were going to bed... Also, this thread is in the GENERAL, non-railway specific section of the forum.

 

[brad465]

I hope Javid tells him to do one.

And if he doesn't prevent the mandate returning we have to hope he's been having it off with an advisor and video evidence gets leaked to a tabloid newspaper

 

[bramling]

And if he doesn't prevent the mandate returning we have to hope he's been having it off with an advisor and video evidence gets leaked to a tabloid newspaper

I don't think "Saj" is that clumsy. Goodness, I'd forgotten Hancock, and just how irritating he was. At least we've been spared him for the last few months.

 

[Cowley]

OK then (and you probably know what I’m going to say here ).

We’re going to allow a certain amount of spleen venting on this thread for maybe another twenty four hours.
So get it off your chest (in a respectful way please) and we’ll close this thread tomorrow night once everyone’s said what they want to say.

We know that this is going to be an ongoing issue for a while now but dedicated mask threads on here always end up in the same old circular arguments that just cause animosity and that’s why we’d rather not get into it really.

All of that said, we appreciate the fact that everyone on all sides of the debate have generally understood where we’re coming from on this.

So many thanks all, twenty four hours to go. Tick Tock etc...

 

[Ilovetrains43]

I hate masks too! Especially in summer.

 

[dk1]

I’ve sort of got back in the habit again in the last few weeks, so it’s not going to be much of an issue for me. Keeps the face warm on these colder mornings too.

 

[Bantamzen]

People do wear them already in various countries around the world prior to the pandemic. They get on just fine and wear them out of courtesy to others rather than be mandated to do so.

Oh dear me. You are falling back on this tired old argument?

So let's take a country like Japan, well known for mask compliance during the pandemic. However prior to it masks were not routinely worn, they were worn primarily by people displaying symptoms of colds and flu. And they were worn not out of some courtesy as you fantasise, but because in Japanese culture being off sick from work is often considered rude, even unacceptable. So masks became a way around this, as they believed as you do that they stop people infecting others. Of course the problem there is that despite this practice, people still got cold and flu, as they did covid.

Its almost as if masks used in public settings without strict medical protocols simply don't work.....

 

[birchesgreen]

Last week when I had to go out of work for an hour daytime to the shops I got pointed at and heard mutterings from a few of those wearing masks who were predominantly by appearance age 60+. Yet other than those medically advised not to be vaccinated most of this age group should have had their booster. Most of my shopping is after 5pm and then I have not noticed this from the mask wearers.

Did this really happen though or did you imagine it did? I haven't worn masks in supermarkets since the summer and never noticed this kind of thing (and i usually am in Coop or Waitrose where fellow customers tend to be the elderly).

 

[317 forever]

Thats why it is the size of the byelection vote that the Reform Party gets that matters.

A big turn out for them will unsettle tory backbenchers who will fear that come the next election, Reform will split their vote and loae them their seat. It was their predecessor the Brexit Party reducing the tories to 9% in the 2019 Euro elections that made the backbenchers act to defenestrate May.

I thought she announced her departure on the Friday before the votes were announced.