I do not drive them but they are included in my job. The simple reason is most of them have faults of some kind or another. Maybe they will work out the reaon for the engine shutdowns or issues with transfering power source but its a work in progress currently
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern
- Thread starter northwichcat
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
175001
On Moderation
Realtime Trains - 2L70 0637 Manchester Victoria to Southport
Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Now this is going to be intresting, must have done some fast work with the wires overnight
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
But obviously an error
It looks like the two units in the reversing siding were confused - 769434 was first in last night, then 319370. So 319370 has presumably gone on the 0559 MCV - LIV, and 769434 on the Southport.Realtime Trains - 2L70 0637 Manchester Victoria to Southport
Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.www.realtimetrains.co.uk
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Now this is going to be intresting, must have done some fast work with the wires overnight
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
But obviously an error
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Correction - 769434 hasn't left the reversing siding.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Edit: The Southport is now showing as cancelled due to a problem with the doors.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Edit: 769434 eventually left Victoria at 0724 and ran ECS to Southport, from where it ran the 0815 to Alderley Edge, 5L at 0820. At 1200, it's still running! (So are 769431 & 769442).
Earlier 769434 was showing on RTT as having worked 0559 Victoria - Liverpool and 0700 Liverpool - Wigan, but everything's been corrected now.
Last edited:
Out of interest, have any of the 769s run part or all of a 319 diagram and if so, did they keep to the 319 timing?
It is a 319 but with extra weight however according to Real Time Trains they do get pathed as a 319 between Alderley Edge and Bolton
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L10134/2021-12-01/detailed
So they are running under the wires to the same times that were set up for 319s? Have 769s ever stood in for 319s on the Chat Moss or St Helens Central lines?
769s can't do MU speeds whereas 319s can, so 769s are restricted to 75mph for the most part between Bolton and Salford Crescent and vice versa, not that 319s (being faster than 769s) can really make use of the MU maximum line speeds anyway as they're still pretty much just too gutless.
Jamesrob637
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Aug 2016
- Messages
- 5,674
Think at least two have failed today amd it's only 1pm.
I assume by "can't", you mean aren't permitted to. Apart from on adverse gradients, a 769 on electric power will eventually reach the same sort of speed as a 319, which is into the '90s. Allso, not all EMUs are permitted to go that fast, e.g. 323s, 317s and even 345s are limited to 90mph.
Also, on diesel I've been at speeds up to 74mph in a 769 on diesel more than once.
Ok I stsnd corrected, I might have mixed that up with theScotrail 3-car equivalent the 318s. The other two are still very much 'performance units' and they are definitely 90mph.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Is it just me or is 434 the most frequently used of the eight ? Seems to pop up in allocations more than the others, although 424, 431 and 458 also.
Killingworth
Established Member
I have a soft spot for 434. We travelled to and from Southport on it on the first day of public service. It performed well on that day and it's good to see it's still getting out.
Bimodes have to be part of the next 30 years of the passenger's railway. Converting 30 year old EMUs has not proved to be as successful as intended but hopefully these units can finally be made to work for 10 years until new builds can be introduced.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Well I cannot believe there are brand new DMUs being built in 2021 and 2022. They should have been designed for conversion to Bi or even battery electric traction. Each 195, 196 and 197 unit should have at least one bodyshell with a pantograph well on the roof.
py_megapixel
Established Member
No point in putting the space on the bodyshell considering they have mechanical transmissions not electric, so as I understand it would basically need a complete re-build (below the solebar at least) for electric operation.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
The irony is that I believe they are currently working on a 168 to fit a traction motor in place of the diesel engine apart of the hydraflex project. If they asre trying to convert a 25 year old DMU into something with electric motors, then a new CAD design would have been a doddle. An that is the issue here in the UK - too much bloody short term thinking in five year chunks.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the 195s, 196s and 197s do end up being retractioned as EMUs full rebuild or not just because of the age of the bodyshells when Diesel is completely phased out. They will most likely be the last DMUs running as well.
The 769s are only building up this appetite for (unsuccessful) conversions which will culminate with electric 195s. Wait aren’t those a thing already…?
edwin_m
Veteran Member
The motor is probably the easy bit, considering that several EMU classes had variants of the same bogie including traction motors, and modern AC motors are smaller and lighter than the DC ones used in those classes.
Making room for the pantograph and transformer is likely to be the bigger challenge.
175001
On Moderation
Diagrams are out for next week. They are back on the Stalybridge's, and they will be going ECS via Denton too!
Is it back to the 6
I think the change to the roof and body to accommodate a pantograph well would require almost a complete body rebuild to meet the standards for stress loading.
When will they be doing this? Will they do a power changeover at Guide Bridge?
175001
On Moderation
No pan down all the way
childwallblues
Established Member
The 195s currently run under the wires from Manchester Airport to Carnforth and Oxenholme on Barrow and Windermere services and could do with bi modes.
py_megapixel
Established Member
Frankly it could do with just cutting back the services to Lancaster and Oxenholme respectively and retiming them to connect with TPE trains to Manchester, but that's for another thread.
A'full rebuild' would be pointless as it would involve re,lacing the power bogies, and rebuilding the vehicle that carries the transformer and pantograph plus considerable rewiring throughout. Even if this was done as part of a live production line it wouldn't be cost effective, - to assume that it would be done even 5 years after series production ceases would be bonkers.
The ordering of units locked into diesel-only operation was a serious error in a knee-jerk reaction to fix an embarassing lack of planning. We will all be paying the price of that for the next 30 years! The 196 & 197 orders will be just as diasterous.