Alstom and Hitachi now announced as winners of HS2 rolling stock supplier contract

[LOL The Irony]

The Times are reporting Alstom and hitachi are going to be announced as the winners of the HS2 contract.

Alstom and Hitachi win HS2 train bid

The government and HS2 are on the verge of announcing that a £2.8 billion contract for the most prestigious train manufacturing project in the history of Britain’s railways is to be awarded to Derby’s historic Litchurch Lane works and Hitachi’s much newer factory at Newton Aycliffe in Co Durham.The

www.thetimes.co.uk

The government and HS2 are on the verge of announcing that a £2.8 billion contract for the most prestigious train manufacturing project in the history of Britain’s railways is to be awarded to Derby’s historic Litchurch Lane works and Hitachi’s much newer factory at Newton Aycliffe in Co Durham.

The long-awaited contract to produce at least 54 trains that can run at 225mph, are up to 400 metres long and able to carry more than 1,000 people, is to be awarded to a joint venture between Alstom of France and Hitachi of Japan.

Unfortunate really. Poor decision if it is to be the case.

 

[sonic2009]

The Times are reporting Alstom and hitachi are going to be announced as the winners of the HS2 contract.

Alstom and Hitachi win HS2 train bid

The government and HS2 are on the verge of announcing that a £2.8 billion contract for the most prestigious train manufacturing project in the history of Britain’s railways is to be awarded to Derby’s historic Litchurch Lane works and Hitachi’s much newer factory at Newton Aycliffe in Co Durham.The

www.thetimes.co.uk

Unfortunate really. Poor decision if it is to be the case.

Poor decision why?

Personally I prefer that the order book for Litchurch lane is filled again.

 

[Grumbler]

Thank goodness for the reduced journey times, if the seats are going to be as uncomfortable as those on the GWR trains.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Poor decision why?

Being made by Hitachi (cracks) and formerly Bombardier (poor quality) with assistance from the former Ansaldo (don't even need to say why they're bad).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thank goodness for the reduced journey times, if the seats are going to be as uncomfortable as those on the GWR trains.

If you read the spec, unless they get to deviate from it it looks like the units will be very comfortable. Things like seat quality, very generous spacing and window alignment in Standard are all specified.

 

[ainsworth74]

If you read the spec

Linky? Not sure I've stumbled on that in my many wanderings as yet!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Linky? Not sure I've stumbled on that in my many wanderings as yet!

Train Technical Specification (hs2.org.uk)
It might have changed on the way through the procurement process, of course, and like IEP will likely change again before contract.

 

[ainsworth74]

Train Technical Specification (hs2.org.uk)
It might have changed on the way through the procurement process, of course, and like IEP will likely change again before contract.

Thanks

 

[DanNCL]

Does this award mean that the legal action brought against HS2 Ltd by Siemens has been resolved? Or could there still be a load more drama over this contract?

The timing of this announcement along with last night’s move to plan B, can’t tell the government don’t want our attention on last years Downing Street parties...

 

[43096]

Poor decision why?

Personally I prefer that the order book for Litchurch lane is filled again.

The combination of Derby (serial late deliverers and software issues a speciality) and Hitachi (where do you start?) is just asking for trouble. If you want Lit Lane’s order book full it should be because they offer the best product, not tub-thumping nationalistic rhetoric.

To borrow the phrase used in the past about IBM, “Nobody ever gets fired for buying from Siemens.”

 

[09ndodge]

Does this award mean that the legal action brought against HS2 Ltd by Siemens has been resolved? Or could there still be a load more drama over this contract?

The timing of this announcement along with last night’s move to plan B, can’t tell the government don’t want our attention on last years Downing Street parties...

It may not be fully resolved but the court would have given permission for the contract to be awarded.

 

[tornado]

Train Technical Specification (hs2.org.uk)
It might have changed on the way through the procurement process, of course, and like IEP will likely change again before contract.

Does the 3hr45 Euston to Glasgow include any >125mph North of Preston?

 

[Minstral25]

Shame Shapps has had to cancel








Rt Hon Grant Shapps MP

@grantshapps

Sorry not to be travelling to @HitachiRailENG in County Durham today to welcome huge new @HS2ltd rolling stock contract. Have taken precaution of cancelling visit & have taken PCR test after being in contact with Australian Deputy PM this week - who's tested positive for Covid.

 

[fgwrich]

The combination of Derby (serial late deliverers and software issues a speciality) and Hitachi (where do you start?) is just asking for trouble. If you want Lit Lane’s order book full it should be because they offer the best product, not tub-thumping nationalistic rhetoric.

To borrow the phrase used in the past about IBM, “Nobody ever gets fired for buying from Siemens.”

Exactly so. Whilst the 380s had a more troublesome introduction than most other Siemens fleets, how often have we since heard of issues with their stock?

It seems the DfT, who claim they are keen not to repeat the mistakes of the past, are keen to repeat the mistakes of the past. Like most in this area, I think we’ve given up waiting for the 701s to arrive. The prospect of a joint Hitachi / Alstom nee Derby product doe not fill me with confidence.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Wil anything even be built in Derby, or will Alstom build in their factories in the EU?

 

[Mikey C]

I'm sure as a sop to Siemens, the government (once the silly games with Sadiq Khan have finished) will give TfL the finances to order more Tube trains

 

[stuu]

To borrow the phrase used in the past about IBM, “Nobody ever gets fired for buying from Siemens.”

No manufacturer has a perfect record. Siemens were responsible for the design of the ICE 1 train which failed catastrophically at Eschede, something of a blemish

 

[Goldfish62]

Wil anything even be built in Derby, or will Alstom build in their factories in the EU?

I would be aghast if the contract was not awarded on the basis of guaranteed manufacture in the UK.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No manufacturer has a perfect record. Siemens were responsible for the design of the ICE 1 train which failed catastrophically at Eschede, something of a blemish

Interestingly the composite (rubber-damped) wheel design, not totally dissimilar in concept to a dual mass flywheel in a car (which also have a reputation for failure), was considered for the APT but rejected. "Two Miles a Minute" by OS Nock refers. So it could as easily have been BR if they had proceeded. Having to convert them to solid wheels is why the ICE1's ride is a bit harsh, if I recall.

 

[DanNCL]

Reported elsewhere that the bodyshells are planned to be made using the new welding facilities at Newton Aycliffe, and final fit out and testing to be done at Litchurch Lane. Bogies also to be supplied by Alstom, but not from Litchurch Lane.

How this’ll work in reality with Alstom selling their share of the Zefiro family to Hitachi is unclear.

 

[Nym]

So how many HGV movements between Newton Aycliffe and Derby to satisfy the political need to keep both plants busy, when both plants are equally capable of both interior fitout and structural welding?

Not to mention that I doubt there will be a gauge cleared rail route from HS2 to Litchurch Lane so it will mean yet more HGV moves to get them onto the HS2 network. But that's fine, because the government isn't trying to reduce HGV traffic at all. Honest.

Unless of course they're all classic compatible, then you just need a 60 year old diesel loco to haul them from Litchurch Lane to Birmingham, via whatever insane location the link into the classic network will be.

 

[43096]

No manufacturer has a perfect record. Siemens were responsible for the design of the ICE 1 train which failed catastrophically at Eschede, something of a blemish

Siemens provided electrical equipment for them: they weren’t a vehicle builder until they bought Duewag and Krause-Maffei. Further, hadn’t DB changed the wheelset design (which was what failed) to a different design to what they were built with?

Bit of a cheap shot by you to bring an accident into it and blame it on Siemens, which is factually inaccurate.

 

[DanNCL]

Not to mention that I doubt there will be a gauge cleared rail route from HS2 to Litchurch Lane so it will mean yet more HGV moves to get them onto the HS2 network. But that's fine, because the government isn't trying to reduce HGV traffic at all. Honest.

Unless of course they're all classic compatible, then you just need a 60 year old diesel loco to haul them from Litchurch Lane to Birmingham, via whatever insane location the link into the classic network will be.

They're all to be classic compatible and there'll be a HS2 connection at Washwood Heath so direct access off the Derby - Birmingham route, not far to have to drag them by rail to HS2 at all.

I agree about how ridiculous it is that these'll all be moved by road between Newton Aycliffe and Derby, although it's not as bad as the IEP contract where they were all moved by sea from Japan to Newton Aycliffe!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Hitachi/Alstom Press Release here (with photo projections) :
Press | Hitachi Rail

The UK’s two leading train manufacturers will deliver Europe’s fastest operational train, capable of operating at maximum speeds of 225mph (360 km/h), significantly reducing journey times for passengers. The fleet will be 100% electric, and be one of the world’s most energy efficient very high speed trains due to the lower train mass per passenger, aerodynamic design, regenerative power and latest energy efficient traction technology.

In a major boost to grow and rebalance the economy, the HAH-S joint venture will manufacture the 54 trains at newly enhanced facilities in County Durham, Derby and Crewe. The award to the British-based firms will protect and create thousands of green jobs and add £157 million GVA to the UK economy for every year of the train building phase.

It's a surprise that Crewe is also involved in the manufacturing work.

Once in Alstom’s factory in Derby, the largest in the UK with 2,000 staff, the trains will be fitted with all remaining components including interiors, electrics, and bogies. The bogies will be made by Alstom at their Crewe facility, first time in 17 years that these high value items have been manufactured in the UK, as part of a new investment by the firm. The welding facility in the North East and bogie production in Crewe represent important upskilling and lasting legacies for the UK.

Crewe will also be the heavy maintenance centre for the fleet.

There's no hint of the design origin of the train beyond being "predominantly UK designed", but one might suppose the bodyshells and electrics will come from Hitachi, and the rest from Alstom.
No mention of "V300 Zefiro" anywhere.

 

[stratford]

Missing the most important thing in this discussion. What seats will they use...

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's no hint of the design origin of the train beyond being "predominantly UK designed", but one might suppose the bodyshells and electrics will come from Hitachi, and the rest from Alstom.
No mention of "V300 Zefiro" anywhere.

So are we effectively talking about an 8-car 80x with the bodyshells shortened to 25m (to give exactly 200m for an 8 car train), something the platform already supports, a pointier nose and a faster top speed? I figure we could well be, assuming the 80x bodyshell (cracks aside) is considered strong enough for the higher speed or can easily be reinforced.

 

[dereksingh291]

What will happen with the 390s when the trains for high speed two are built?

 

[Darandio]

What will happen with the 390s when the trains for high speed two are built?

Nothing, services will still be running on the WCML.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Nothing, services will still be running on the WCML.

But ICWC can't use 57 Pendolinos and 54 HS2 sets.
390s will be getting on for 27+ years old when HS2 starts up with its new trains.

 

[XAM2175]

Having to convert them to solid wheels is why the ICE1's ride is a bit harsh, if I recall.

Further, hadn’t DB changed the wheelset design (which was what failed) to a different design to what they were built with?

Yes, they had originally been built with solid 'Monobloc' wheels but these were changed to the two-piece design because of complaints of rough riding. All were changed back to single-piece wheels in the immediate aftermath of the disaster.

Bit of a cheap shot by you to bring an accident into it and blame it on Siemens, which is factually inaccurate.

Indeed.