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Electric vehicle has ruined my day

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miklcct

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I normally travel by public transport. However as the railway was blown out, I got no choice but to hire a car. I hired an electric car at Eastleigh, which is a Renault Zoe which has a range of 100+ miles (70 miles for older models) as claimed by the car club. My day plan is to get to Guildford Lido first, then near Wembley Park for orienteering, finally Central London. I planned to find a paid parking outside the congestion zone to charge it during my day in London, and use public transport inside London.

When I entered the car, it showed only less than 60 miles remaining even on a full battery! So I had no choice but to charge it in Guildford.

However, when I arrived Guildford, The car only had less than 10 miles left. I head to the closest charging point to the lido, it was out of service. Then I try another one on the map, but it didn't exist on the ground. I try the third one, but found the card in the vehicle was not working, and only by then I realised that it was not on the same network. So I found one on the network, but all parking space was occupied by non-EVs. I eventually plugged in the vehicle far away from the lido, next to the mainline train station, and walked 15 minutes back to the lido.

I had wasted more than an hour finding charging, combined with the time in familiarisation of the car controls (as I had never drove this model before), and the time needed to walk from the station to the Lido, I only got there by 10:15 compared to 08:15 if I could take a train to Woking than a bus direct to Guildford College.

As a result, I had to write off my orienteering race near Wembley Park, at I could no longer get there by 12:00.

After my swim, I returned to the car, and I was shocked that the car wasn't charging at all! I tried plugging out and in again but the charge post didn't work. I called the customer service, mentioned the symptom, and they suggested me that the charge post was broken. I drove to another one in town and exhausted all the on-network posts in Guildford, found none working at all, which left me no options but to pay for an off network post.

I opened the map and found one in town centre, which is at a Waitrose. I paid the parking fee and successfully started the charge, but I am only allowed to stay in the car park for 1 1/2 hours. However, my car needs 6 hours to be fully charged.

By now I'm running out of time to go to Central London, but I can't leave my car unattended for a long time for it to charge and grab public transport to London. As my car still doesn't have electricity, it's no longer possible for me to go to London now.

I'm still at the supermarket and I'll need to find another place for me to get my car back to full charge for me to drive it back to the returning location.

My day has been ruined because of the lack of EV charging infrastructure even in the city. I'll never use an EV again anymore!
 
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yorksrob

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Sounds like the tribulations I've had over the years with phone batteries and charging !

Can the chemical reactions in batteries ever be good enough to replicate the traditional motoring experience I wonder.
 

Bletchleyite

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Can the chemical reactions in batteries ever be good enough to replicate the traditional motoring experience I wonder.

No, but in time the charging infrastructure will be improved to the point that issues like this don't occur, and there is less chance of a mechanical breakdown than an ICE car.

But most importantly, the experience for those living, walking and cycling around the cars will be drastically improved. And that benefit (including potentially reduced asthma rates etc) must surely be worth a bit of inconvenience in the long run.
 

yorksrob

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No, but in time the charging infrastructure will be improved to the point that issues like this don't occur, and there is less chance of a mechanical breakdown than an ICE car.

But most importantly, the experience for those living, walking and cycling around the cars will be drastically improved. And that benefit (including potentially reduced asthma rates etc) must surely be worth a bit of inconvenience in the long run.

Indeed, but I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of a motorist !
 

miklcct

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As the Waitrose car park is limited to 1.5 hours, I could only get to about 40% / 25 miles before time ran out. I then the app to find fast charging nearby and head to the Lidl, paid and got the car to 80% / 50 miles, and tried to head back. My navigation showed about 46 miles back to Eastleigh through the A31 but as I progress the road, it became clear that I would not make Eastleigh before the battery ran out, which forced me to find charging in Winchester. I entered a multi storey car park and paid for the fast charging again (it is now out of parking charge hours), and hopefully I can get enough back to Eastleigh soon.

I find it absurd that for a journey which only takes 1 hour by train consumes the whole battery on a 2015 car. I can't get even 100 km out of a full battery when the manufacturer claimed 210 km for the car.
 

Bletchleyite

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As the Waitrose car park is limited to 1.5 hours, I could only get to about 40% / 25 miles before time ran out. I then the app to find fast charging nearby and head to the Lidl, paid and got the car to 80% / 50 miles, and tried to head back. My navigation showed about 46 miles back to Eastleigh through the A31 but as I progress the road, it became clear that I would not make Eastleigh before the battery ran out, which forced me to find charging in Winchester. I entered a multi storey car park and paid for the fast charging again (it is now out of parking charge hours), and hopefully I can get enough back to Eastleigh soon.

I find it absurd that for a journey which only takes 1 hour by train consumes the whole battery on a 2015 car. I can't get even 100 km out of a full battery when the manufacturer claimed 210 km for the car.

That sounds faulty to me, to be honest, unless the car is a particularly small-batteried version not intended for taking out of the city you got it in.
 

Dai Corner

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Internal combustion engined cars are clearly the only viable option in many cases, as a relative of mine has found out after being faced with a long commute to work after leasing a rechargeable car.
 

skyhigh

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I find it absurd that for a journey which only takes 1 hour by train consumes the whole battery on a 2015 car. I can't get even 100 km out of a full battery when the manufacturer claimed 210 km for the car.
Just as quoted fuel efficiency is never as good as actual performance, the same applies to EV range. As a point of note the performance measures (NEDC) were unreliable enough that for newer cars WLTP is now used to measure range - which ends up with a more realistic figure (which is why the quoted range for the new Zoe 50kWh model is roughly the same as the 40kWh model, despite the newer model having a battery that is 20% larger). Also don't forget that range will be reduced in winter and better in summer - same as a petrol car, but you just don't notice it as much.

In addition the car is very good at calculating range based on driving style - i.e. fast acceleration and heavy braking decreases the range. I wouldn't be surprised if as a hire car people are making full use of the acceleration and that saved data is telling the car that range will be reduced. If you reset the trip counter it deletes that history and the range normally jumps up a bit.

There is a bug with the software on older cars too (see below).

That sounds faulty to me, to be honest, unless the car is a particularly small-batteried version not intended for taking out of the city you got it in.
Early Zoes had a well known bug with the battery calculation software which result in a much lower range showing in the car. I suspect the car club either doesn't know about it or doesn't really care and so hasn't asked for the update to be done (it can be done for free at a Renault dealer and was done during routine servicing, however I suspect the car club does the servicing itself to save money). For reference my old 2015 Zoe was showing around 75 miles on a full charge - after the update it was showing and achieving 120 miles in the summer. Given the battery is only 22kWh the bug gets quite noticeable after a while.
 

transportphoto

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I
opened the map and found one in town centre, which is at a Waitrose. I paid the parking fee and successfully started the charge, but I am only allowed to stay in the car park for 1 1/2 hours. However, my car needs 6 hours to be fully charged.
Sadly free to use charging points at supermarkets and the like are essentially trickle chargers, very slow to a full charge - helpful for a top up over an hour in store, but not for a zero to hero charge.

Sadly a combination of factors are at play here:
  • The car isn’t yours, you had no control over its charge level before you set off.
  • You had no prior familiarity with the car, nor what’s involved in owning/using a electric car (and as such get caught out with the various chargers/charging networks).
  • Potentially an issue with the car itself regarding range etc.

Over time, I’ve become a lot more comfortable using an electric car (company fleet vehicle) and have done so for longer distance journeys - but I make sure I’ve got control of as many variables as possible, and would certainly consider an EV for my next car. It’s not all bad, just takes some adjusting and planning.
 

Ediswan

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I normally travel by public transport. However as the railway was blown out, I got no choice but to hire a car. I hired an electric car at Eastleigh, which is a Renault Zoe which has a range of 100+ miles (70 miles for older models) as claimed by the car club. My day plan is to get to Guildford Lido first, then near Wembley Park for orienteering, finally Central London. I planned to find a paid parking outside the congestion zone to charge it during my day in London, and use public transport inside London.

When I entered the car, it showed only less than 60 miles remaining even on a full battery! So I had no choice but to charge it in Guildford.

my car needs 6 hours to be fully charged.
Eastleigh -> Guildford -> Wembley Park -> Eastleigh is about 150 miles, add a bit for getting closer to Central London. Was that ever practical with 60 miles range and a 6 hour charge time ?
 

miklcct

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Eastleigh -> Guildford -> Wembley Park -> Eastleigh is about 150 miles, add a bit for getting closer to Central London. Was that ever practical with 60 miles range and a 6 hour charge time ?
The official number is 100+ miles, or 70 miles for older model, so I expect a single charge somewhere in a car park in outer London, outside the congestion zone.

When it was apparently not enough, I expect I could easily got some in Guildford before continuing my journey but I couldn't, as most chargers I could find was not working at all.
 

Non Multi

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The Zap Map phone app seems to be recommend by EV users. It's useful if you require a specific type of roadside charge point.
 

Harpers Tate

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As a 4+ year exclusively EV driver, I'd describe the OPs experience as being as much to do with lack of experience/knowledge about being an EV user as it is about the state of the infrastructure. For example - "...after my swim....car not charging....". If that had happened to me, then I'd have known about it much sooner. If I had to guess, that might have been a PodPoint outlet where I already know, you get 15 minutrs' grace period after which the charge ends unless you confirm the session via an app. The extent to which this sad tale is as a result of the user's lack of experience is not in itself damning of EVs as a whole.
 

Snow1964

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I am also baffled why the Op chose an old low range electric car for his first electric car experience to do a complicated time critical itinerary where each leg was close to limit of range.

Everyone I know that has an EV works on basis of real range being about 75-80% of quoted max, or nearer 70-75% in winter.
 

miklcct

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I am also baffled why the Op chose an old low range electric car for his first electric car experience to do a complicated time critical itinerary where each leg was close to limit of range.

Everyone I know that has an EV works on basis of real range being about 75-80% of quoted max, or nearer 70-75% in winter.
There isn't an EV which can do a round trip between Eastleigh to London without charging, but if it is 100 miles as claimed, it should be more then enough to get from Eastleigh to London where I can charge it.

And I didn't expect it was so hard to find a charging station in a CITY. I expected I could find a few in most car parks with a card to be used on all of them.
 

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Why would you choose to hire an electric car to take yourself to a time critical event when you’ve never used one before? Hire a petrol car that you’re used to.

The time for me to experiment with EVs is on a day I’m doing nothing at all where I can sink all my time into whatever mishaps may occur.
 

43096

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As a 4+ year exclusively EV driver, I'd describe the OPs experience as being as much to do with lack of experience/knowledge about being an EV user as it is about the state of the infrastructure. For example - "...after my swim....car not charging....". If that had happened to me, then I'd have known about it much sooner. If I had to guess, that might have been a PodPoint outlet where I already know, you get 15 minutrs' grace period after which the charge ends unless you confirm the session via an app. The extent to which this sad tale is as a result of the user's lack of experience is not in itself damning of EVs as a whole.
It's all very well sneering at a user's inexperience, but the infrastructure to support electric vehicles isn't good enough.

Good to know you would know about it not charging sooner, but having a load of hoops to jump through, specific apps, etc etc. really isn't acceptable. If I drive a petrol or diesel car, I go to the filling station, put the nozzle in for the fuel I want, fill up, pay and drive off. It is totally reasonable to expect the same with electric - in fact it should easier as there's only one type of electrons to fill the car up. Maybe a choice of fast charge or trickle charge - but I shouldn't have to download a specific app and I should know the charger will do what I want it to do. In other words it needs to match the simplicity and reliability of petrol/diesel: indeed it needs to be much easier given the low range of these things. But it doesn't. And that's just plain ****.
 

edwin_m

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It's all very well sneering at a user's inexperience, but the infrastructure to support electric vehicles isn't good enough.

Good to know you would know about it not charging sooner, but having a load of hoops to jump through, specific apps, etc etc. really isn't acceptable. If I drive a petrol or diesel car, I go to the filling station, put the nozzle in for the fuel I want, fill up, pay and drive off. It is totally reasonable to expect the same with electric - in fact it should easier as there's only one type of electrons to fill the car up. Maybe a choice of fast charge or trickle charge - but I shouldn't have to download a specific app and I should know the charger will do what I want it to do. In other words it needs to match the simplicity and reliability of petrol/diesel: indeed it needs to be much easier given the low range of these things. But it doesn't. And that's just plain ****.
The app-ification of so many things seems to be about suppliers trying to lock in customers at the expense of flexibility for users. We already have a method for anyone with an account with any bank to pay just about any supplier, so why don't electric charging points just use contactless or chip and PIN?
 

miklcct

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Why would you choose to hire an electric car to take yourself to a time critical event when you’ve never used one before? Hire a petrol car that you’re used to.

The time for me to experiment with EVs is on a day I’m doing nothing at all where I can sink all my time into whatever mishaps may occur.
Mainly because an EV is much cheaper to hire, with no mileage fee. Also, there is no EV for hire near where I live so there was no chance for me to try it out beforehand, so the last 2 times when I hired a car for a local journey was on a petrol.
 

miklcct

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use contactless or chip and PIN?
This is also what I expected as well but I actually had to download an app / load a website which takes minutes as mobile reception is bad in lot of places, and check out as guest. It was so damn inconvenient. Some posts had an RFID reader it couldn't be activated by my bank card.

I think we will need government intervention if we really need to have a move to an EV country, by setting charging point standards (density of fast charge in a city, number of slow charge / parking spaces, requirement to be operated without a mobile phone / vendor specific card, etc.)
 

Harpers Tate

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....the infrastructure to support electric vehicles isn't good enough....
I don't disagree. But as with all things (in any walk of life; not just electric motoring) that are in some way inadequate, the only thing left for us to do is to be fully informed, prepared, and to work around the shortcomings.

This is pricipally a Railway forum. And, in my view, there is much (very much) wrong with the Railway - with onus placed on the passenger to ensure they are fully informed as to what they need to do before they embark. Make sure yours is running; make sure you get on the right one; make sure you have invested in (in some cases) exactly the right ticket. And so on.
 
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Bletchleyite

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This is also what I expected as well but I actually had to download an app / load a website which takes minutes as mobile reception is bad in lot of places, and check out as guest. It was so damn inconvenient. Some posts had an RFID reader it couldn't be activated by my bank card.

I still get the feeling that you are expecting to get too much into each day and as such are creating yourself a heck of a lot of stress.

Things that "take minutes" should not end up ruining one's day.
 

miklcct

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I still get the feeling that you are expecting to get too much into each day and as such are creating yourself a heck of a lot of stress.

Things that "take minutes" should not end up ruining one's day.
Finding a parking with usable charging took me hours, rather than minutes!
 

the sniper

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I'd describe the OPs experience as being as much to do with lack of experience/knowledge [...]

This often seems to be the case with this poster. They don't let it hold them back from jumping in feet first, but always have an interesting tale to tell afterwards, usually about how things somehow didn't fall into line with their very specific requirements.
 

Bletchleyite

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This often seems to be the case with this poster. They don't let it hold them back from jumping in feet first, but always have an interesting tale to tell afterwards, usually about how things somehow didn't fall into line with their very specific requirements.

And at the same time leaving zero slack in their day for things to go wrong. Which might be fine in Asian megacities where everyone is super-disciplined, but 9 times out of 10 only having "minutes" of slack in your day in the UK invariably will result in tears.

Not even all of Asia - I think the OP would find a visit to, say, Thailand incredibly frustrating when the term "mai pen rai"* comes up once again.

* Basically "s*** happens, not my problem", as a rough translation. Essentially the "Gallic shrug" in words.
 

Dai Corner

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I don't disagree. But as with all things (in any walk of life; not just electric motoring) that are in some way inadequate, the only thing left for us to do is to be fully informed, prepared, and to work around the shortcomings.
Rechargeable cars remind me a bit of home computers in the 1980s. They were new, cool and expensive with many shortcomings but plenty of enthusiasts were prepared to buy them and working round the problems was all part of the fun.
 

Bletchleyite

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Rechargeable cars remind me a bit of home computers in the 1980s. They were new, cool and expensive with many shortcomings but plenty of enthusiasts were prepared to buy them and working round the problems was all part of the fun.

Of course in 2022 most of those flaws are fading away and using computers (in the form of phones and tablets) is now the norm everywhere with little working-around needed.

The same will, in due course, happen with EVs.
 

AM9

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Rechargeable cars remind me a bit of home computers in the 1980s. They were new, cool and expensive with many shortcomings but plenty of enthusiasts were prepared to buy them and working round the problems was all part of the fun.
Actually as many of those computers were acquired for children in connection with their schooling, - the "enthusiasts" in the house were often just inquisitive children. Maybe as with smartphones, adults havimng problems often consulted their children, (their own or neighbours), to getm help. Are we in that sort of area for a while where the nuances of charging EVs on public chargers will become part of the younger generations knowledge through their greater mental agility and willingness to learn.
Before anybody points out that children don't have access to play with EVs like they do smartphones, they are frequent passengers and do engage with modern technology more that matures, - sometimes obsessively.
 

Bletchleyite

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Actually as many of those computers were acquired for children in connection with their schooling

Had a giggle about that. That may have been the reason husbands justified buying one to their wives (usually that way round back then), but as a child of the 80s I can confirm that a rubber keyed Speccy plugged into a cassette recorder and black and white portable telly had no homework or schooling-related purpose whatsoever (other than enabling playing games instead of doing it), and an expensive BBC Micro (about £500 then, which probably means about £5000 now) wasn't much better.

What they did do is enable an entire generation of the IT industry, which 1980s and 1990s schooling did very little for at all.

MJ Hibbett and the Validators (they of the Birmingham New St song and the one about Midland Mainline's lost property service) refer:

 
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