Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)

[Shauny]

Care to prove where this was happening?


Also, bus times is often correct, it's the users interpretation of the data and often assuming which is incorrect. That and/or the ticket machine data which is incorrect. Bustimes only shows the data that the bus operators send out.

https://bustimes.org/vehicles/274986?date=2022-02-23#journeys/224040206 - The 130 appearing to drive through farmers fields and destroying a housing estate in Wilmslow.
https://bustimes.org/vehicles/288392?date=2022-02-23#journeys/223953276 - The 392 deciding to go all out to demolish houses in Hazel Grove & Poynton.

These are just two examples that I found within 5 minutes on the same day.

Disclaimer: I know that this is obviously not the buses' exact movements, as Pemma stated, that the points are connected by a straight line.

 

[markymark2000]

https://bustimes.org/vehicles/274986?date=2022-02-23#journeys/224040206 - The 130 appearing to drive through farmers fields and destroying a housing estate in Wilmslow.
https://bustimes.org/vehicles/288392?date=2022-02-23#journeys/223953276 - The 392 deciding to go all out to demolish houses in Hazel Grove & Poynton.

These are just two examples that I found within 5 minutes on the same day.

Disclaimer: I know that this is obviously not the buses' exact movements, as Pemma stated, that the points are connected by a straight line.

May I remind you that you said the following.... Which doesn't back up the 'i know that this is obviously not the buses exact movements'

and the 391/392 decided to break road laws and rag it down the Middlewood Way and then make a dramatic left turn at Wood Green.

 

[Shauny]

May I remind you that you said the following.... Which doesn't back up the 'i know that this is obviously not the buses exact movements'

Yes, I was being sarcastic.

 

[GusB]

We are getting off-topic a bit with this discussion of tracking errors. Could we stick to Cheshire Bus News, please?

 

[northwichcat]

1. Macc - Handforth hourly Mon-Sat (2 buses)

A contract for this option has been awarded. No announcement on the winning bidder or timetable yet though.

 

[markymark2000]

A contract for this option has been awarded. No announcement on the winning bidder or timetable yet though.

Seriously? Of all the options, they award that one.

 

[Deerfold]

Seriously? Of all the options, they award that one.

It's better than option 2 and probably substantially cheaper than any of the others.

 

[Shauny]

What was the second option?

 

[markymark2000]

It's better than option 2 and probably substantially cheaper than any of the others.

Defeats the object though of a decent bus service and then enforcing county borders

 

[jfollows]

What was the second option?

Post #2,019 ( #2,019 )

In short, there are 6 options.

1. Macc - Handforth hourly Mon-Sat (2 buses)
2. Macc - Handforth hourly Mon-Fri, 2 hourly Sat (2 buses Mon-Fri, 1 bus Saturday)
3. Macc - Handforth Half hourly Mon-Sat (4 buses)
4. Macc - Wythenshawe Interchange via Handforth and Airport Hourly Mon-Sat (3 buses)
5. As per option 4 but Saturdays every 90 minutes (3 buses Mon-Fri, 2 buses Sat)
6. Macc - Handforth half hourly with hourly extension to Wythenshawe via airport (5 buses)

Options 1, 2, 3 are for Euro 5
Options 4, 5, 6 are for Euro 6.

 

[Contains Nuts]

A contract for this option has been awarded. No announcement on the winning bidder or timetable yet though.

I’d be interested to know your source of this information.

 

[northwichcat]

I’d be interested to know your source of this information.

It's on open source tendering sites. You need an active subscription to see the full details but the summary confirms an award of £750,000 for hourly Macclesfield to Handforth Mon-Sat.

 

[GusB]

It's on open source tendering sites. You need an active subscription to see the full details but the summary confirms an award of £750,000 for hourly Macclesfield to Handforth Mon-Sat.

Could you at least provide a link? I won't insist on a quotation if the site is subscription access, but please do bear in mind that forum rules do require sources to be supplied.

 

[daodao]

Defeats the object though of a decent bus service and then enforcing county borders

I never expected Cheshire East Council to choose one of the more expensive options running into Greater Manchester.

 

[northwichcat]

Local Bus Service N50130 Macclesfield - Handforth or Wythenshawe Contract

60000000:Transport services (excl. Waste transport)
Location: Cheshire East
Single Lot

Finished

Buyer Info: Please Login or Register for unrestricted access

Summary
This service will run Monday to Saturday from Macclesfield - Handforth Hourly.

CFP - Contract Finder Pro

www.contractfinderpro.com

There was also an article on alderleyedge.com saying D&G were offered the optional extension of 1 year on the current 130 and they rejected it due to passenger numbers being lower than they hoped. But it seems to have been deleted for some reason.

 

[Contains Nuts]

CFP - Contract Finder Pro

www.contractfinderpro.com

CFP - Contract Finder Pro

www.contractfinderpro.com

There was also an article on alderleyedge.com saying D&G were offered the optional extension of 1 year on the current 130 and they rejected it due to passenger numbers being lower than they hoped. But it seems to have been deleted for some reason.

I followed that link and it shows ‘award criteria not specified’ so I’m unsure how you can determine what has actually been awarded, unless you work for Cheshire East in which case you are putting your job on the line by discussing this. It states that it’s an hourly service between Macclesfield and Handforth which is correct regardless of which option is awarded, whether it ends up going to Wythenshawe or not.

 

[northwichcat]

I followed that link and it shows ‘award criteria not specified’ so I’m unsure how you can determine what has actually been awarded, unless you work for Cheshire East in which case you are putting your job on the line by discussing this.

That link specifies one specific lot opposed to the previous six lots with only one being awarded.

It states that it’s an hourly service between Macclesfield and Handforth which is correct regardless of which option is awarded, whether it ends up going to Wythenshawe or not.

"This service will run Monday to Saturday from Macclesfield - Handforth Hourly."

Saying 'Saturday' rules out the options with a 90 and 120 minute frequency on Saturdays, even if you want to argue the options that over above that level of provision aren't ruled out.

 

[Shauny]

Any idea on the operator? I personally can see Go Goodwins, as they have lost some work in Altrincham so they’ll have a few buses to play around with, plus they run the Sunday 88’s and a Saturday Evening 88, to and from Wilmslow & Altrincham.

 

[northwichcat]

Any idea on the operator? I personally can see Go Goodwins, as they have lost some work in Altrincham so they’ll have a few buses to play around with, plus they run the Sunday 88’s and a Saturday Evening 88, to and from Wilmslow & Altrincham.

The 88s are interworked with the 288 and Arriva are taking over the 288 in April.

 

[Shauny]

The 88s are interworked with the 288 and Arriva are taking over the 288 in April.

Yes, so when they lose the 288 route. Go Goodwin's could then use one of those buses to run the 130 and use the same bus on Sunday's for the 88's.

 

[northwichcat]

Yes, so when they lose the 288 route. Go Goodwin's could then use one of those buses to run the 130 and use the same bus on Sunday's for the 88's.

The Little Gem 88 journeys are part of the TfGM 288 contract. TfGM decided a 2 hourly Saturday evening and Sunday 288 is sufficient, so the 88 to Wilmslow only was a trial to see if they could generate more passengers using the same level of resource that an hourly 288 required.

A lot of the Go Goodwin vehicles aren't Euro VI, they were only obtained to run 12 month contracts that end before the Clean Air Zone starts.

 

[Shauny]

The Little Gem 88 journeys are part of the TfGM 288 contract. TfGM decided a 2 hourly Saturday evening and Sunday 288 is sufficient, so the 88 to Wilmslow only was a trial to see if they could generate more passengers using the same level of resource that an hourly 288 required.

A lot of the Go Goodwin vehicles aren't Euro VI, they were only obtained to run 12 month contracts that end before the Clean Air Zone starts.

Oh, That makes more sense now. So will Arriva Wythenshawe run the part-working 88 journeys?

 

[northwichcat]

Oh, That makes more sense now. So will Arriva Wythenshawe run the part-working 88 journeys?

I've not seen any mention of the 88 Sunday continuing. The 18 from Manchester Airport to The Trafford Centre is going down to 2 hourly on Sunday and will also be operated by Arriva, so that might be interworked with the 288. It would be strange if that was the case, as the 288 started when Arriva cut back the 18 so it no longer continued to Altrincham.

 

[Shauny]

May you provide a source for this information? As I'd like to read up about it myself.

 

[Man of Kent]

May you provide a source for this information? As I'd like to read up about it myself.

Try here: https://democracy.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/documents/g4501/Public reports pack 21st-Jan-2022 10.30 Greater Manchester Transport Committee.pdf?T=10

18 Eccles – Trafford Centre – Urmston – Stretford – Sale – Wythenshawe – Manchester Airport Arriva

This service currently operates every 60 minutes daily all day between Trafford Centre and Manchester Airport, with the section to Eccles operating every 60 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime only, all under tender. Service 18 has been rerouted between Urmston and Sale to operate via Church Road Urmston, Flixton, Ashton on Mersey and Glebelands Road at Sale. This partially replaces existing services 84A and 260 along this section of route with an improved span of operation. Service 18 will no longer run via Stretford between Urmston and Sale, with alternative journeys available on services 15, 23, 245, 255 and 263 along this section of route. Due to a high cost per passenger, it is recommended that the daily evening service and the whole Sunday service is reduced from hourly to 2 hourly. Whilst the cost per passenger is still higher than the £4 threshold, officers do feel that a reduction in service is more appropriate than a full withdrawal of the evening and Sunday services. Whilst journeys will be retimed, the following approximate journeys will be withdrawn:  Trafford Centre to Manchester Airport:  Mon-Sat: 1936, 2136; Sunday: 0936 then 2 hourly to 2136.  Manchester Airport to Trafford Centre:  Mon-Sat: 1930, 2130, 2340; Sunday: 1118 then 2 hourly to 1718, 1930, 2130. Service 18 route replacing the 84A: Page 25 Service 18 route replacing the 260: Page 26 In Ashton the current 260 will be replaced by 18 (green), 260 (blue) and 280 (red). The full route map for revised service 18 is on this link Members are asked to approve this recommendation which would be effective from 24th April 2022. The impact on the subsidised services budget is given in Part B of this report

 

[GusB]

I'd like to remind everyone that links to sources of information should be provided where available, ideally with a relevant quote from the source; this is especially helpful if you are referring to a large document. If you are unable to provide a quote for whatever reason, please supply as much information as you can (eg a page number) to help locate the relevant part.

Thanks

 

[northwichcat]

May you provide a source for this information? As I'd like to read up about it myself.

Worth remembering there is a Greater Manchester thread as well: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ws-concerning-tfgm-bus-stations.80316/page-33

Like I've said I've not seen any specific information about the future of the 88 Sunday service but the Arriva 288 registration is now confirmed:

• Registration number PC0002598/428
• Licence Number PC0002598

• Status Registered
• Service number.288, 288
• Service type Normal Stopping
• Start point Manchester Airport
• Finish point Altrincham
• Date received 23 Feb 2022
• Effective date 24 Apr 2022

Vehicle Operator Licensing - GOV.UK

www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk

And there doesn't appear to be a new Arriva 88 registration. That may mean the Sunday 288 will be interworked with another service.

Interesting 'medium term' proposal on P49 of the Knutsford Transport Delivery Plan, in suggesting the 82 bus service is extended to Knutsford
https://moderngov.cheshireeast.gov....s/s92497/Appendix B - Knutsford LTDP 2022.pdf

I would question their short term proposal for bike storage at the bus station, when there's already bike storage spaces in Booth's car park.

 

[markymark2000]

And there doesn't appear to be a new Arriva 88 registration. That may mean the Sunday 288 will be interworked with another service.

Interesting 'medium term' proposal on P49 of the Knutsford Transport Delivery Plan, in suggesting the 82 bus service is extended to Knutsford
https://moderngov.cheshireeast.gov.uk/ecminutes/documents/s92497/Appendix B - Knutsford LTDP 2022.pdf

I would question their short term proposal for bike storage at the bus station, when there's already bike storage spaces in Booth's car park.

Give it time, it does happen sometimes when the registrations get approved at different times. It could just be a waiting game.

Having looked back at all Greater Manchester Combined Authority Transport Committee documents and there is no mention of the 88 anywhere which normally implies that it is staying as it is. Though the 288 does have some changes to it on the timetable so I am unsure how that translates into the 88. Perhaps they have just forgotten about it.


As for the 88 to Knutsford, I told D&G it should happen a while ago. Knutsford to Northwich has demand but the buses aren't regular enough. That said, a very regular service I am not sure if it would do amazing. It's more the school trade which needs picking up on as there is a good amount of pupils and students travelling between the two towns.

 

[northwichcat]

As for the 88 to Knutsford, I told D&G it should happen a while ago. Knutsford to Northwich has demand but the buses aren't regular enough. That said, a very regular service I am not sure if it would do amazing. It's more the school trade which needs picking up on as there is a good amount of pupils and students travelling between the two towns.

Maybe 2 hourly direct to Knutsford via the A556 and 2 hourly via the current 89 route?

If the operator undercuts the rail fares for Knutsford to Northwich & Greenbank, there's a significant number of scholars and commuters they could gain. They could also win some Lostock to Northwich passengers off Warrington's Own Buses, as well as attracting new ones.

Pre-COVID Cheshire East secured funding to run some additional 89 journeys to allow for Knutsford Academy pupils getting to and from Tabley and Pickmere by bus. However, the funding got diverted to keep existing services running through COVID.

Having looked back at all Greater Manchester Combined Authority Transport Committee documents and there is no mention of the 88 anywhere which normally implies that it is staying as it is. Though the 288 does have some changes to it on the timetable so I am unsure how that translates into the 88. Perhaps they have just forgotten about it.

They do normally mention a change of operator for a contracted service.

 

[markymark2000]

They do normally mention a change of operator for a contracted service.

Not if there is no timetable or route changes, that doesn't need to go through the committee. Only if there are changes.

Maybe 2 hourly direct to Knutsford via the A556 and 2 hourly via the current 89 route?

If the operator undercuts the rail fares for Knutsford to Northwich & Greenbank, there's a significant number of scholars and commuters they could gain. They could also win some Lostock to Northwich passengers off Warrington's Own Buses, as well as attracting new ones.

Pre-COVID Cheshire East secured funding to run some additional 89 journeys to allow for Knutsford Academy pupils getting to and from Tabley and Pickmere by bus. However, the funding got diverted to keep existing services running through COVID.

I don't know. Possibly. Even then, I don't think the demand would be there for normal passengers interpeak. Certainly not short or medium term as people have gotten comfortable in their cars.

Scholars and commuters, depends on how many people travel the short distance. I know the Radbroke Hall staff may but is that at full capacity or are they home working?

The 89 morning school buses are needed both ways, not just one way. At least John Denes College and Grange School buses from Knutsford to Northwich. Hartford School used to have a bus, not sure if it still does. There's a good few students/schoolars. Before you even think about commuters or normal passengers.