May 2022 Timetable Changes

[Nicholas Lewis]

2 units are also going to be used on the MIA-Edinburgh services from the may timetable

If TPE can't use all it 800's they should be given to another operator to use them like LNER or perhaps GWR who could use them vice Castles.

 

[dk1]

If TPE can't use all it 800's they should be given to another operator to use them like LNER or perhaps GWR who could use them vice Castles.

Given?? This would all have to be written into the concession agreements as have huge financial implications.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Given?? This would all have to be written into the concession agreements as have huge financial implications.

How DofT pays the bills so they can decide.

Real issue is there is no holistic national approach and until GBR is fully establish we will get this piecemeal approach.

 

[dk1]

How DofT pays the bills so they can decide.

Real issue is there is no holistic national approach and until GBR is fully establish we will get this piecemeal approach.

If only it was as easy as that.

 

[800001]

If TPE can't use all it 800's they should be given to another operator to use them like LNER or perhaps GWR who could use them vice Castles.

How? Don’t First Group own them?

 

[Bald Rick]

How? Don’t First Group own them?

No, they are owned by Angel Trains (the TPE units).

 

[Failed Unit]

It’s not less reliable than in 2018 though, quite the opposite!

Not this week. WGC - London inners have just had 1 train per hour in the peak. when you only plan for 2 a set failure / driver absence is a big problem. (Which is the case this week)

 

[Watershed]

If TPE can't use all it 800's they should be given to another operator to use them like LNER or perhaps GWR who could use them vice Castles.

That wouldn't be a permanent solution though, so you couldn't scrap the Castle sets off the back of that. There are certainly plans for the whole 802 fleet to be utilised in due course.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

How DofT pays the bills so they can decide.
Real issue is there is no holistic national approach and until GBR is fully establish we will get this piecemeal approach.

There are still long-term leasing and maintenance contracts on many fleets, which constrain their deployment (such as on the IEP fleet).
GBR will not own all its resources in the way BR once did.
There's obviously more scope when those contracts expire and are renegotiated by GBR.

 

[Kite159]

Looks like the random Northern service which went Nottingham - Derby - Sheffield (and a reverse working) is no more from the May timetable change. Unless those services haven't been added to RTT yet.

 

[Chapeltownveg]

Looks like the random Northern service which went Nottingham - Derby - Sheffield (and a reverse working) is no more from the May timetable change. Unless those services haven't been added to RTT yet.

It appears to only run as a ecs on Sunday's only as the 0807 from Sheffield to Nottingham to form the Nottingham to Carlisle service.

 

[CHAPS2034]

I personally think that's because Blackpool is one of the regular destinations for Party Conferences. So all the ministers in DfT etc. are likely to have travelled to Blackpool from London several times over the years. And can therefore visualise traffic demand on that route, including a need for first class travel.

The last party conference in Blackpool was in 2007 although the Tory Spring Conference will be held there in a couple of weeks time.

 

[Chiltern006]

very glad to see the Sevenoaks-Welwyn service finally starting, disappointing to see no Orpy service from Thameslink off peak though.

 

[Fokx]

I’m not sure if this has already been mentioned, but the York to Liverpool services seem to have been taken out for the entire timetable period, meaning that the frequency on the York to Manchester Victoria corridor will not return to a pre-Covid frequency.

Won’t be happening until atleast December at the earliest. There simply isn’t the traincrew to operate a full service.

I’m still waiting for 802 traction training that was due May 2020

 

[Llandudno]

Looks like the random Northern service which went Nottingham - Derby - Sheffield (and a reverse working) is no more from the May timetable change. Unless those services haven't been added to RTT yet.

Looks like the via Derby evening train is not running as the 2004 Leeds - Nottingham service, which presumably forms the return Nottingham-Derby-Sheffield working is only showing as running between Leeds and Sheffield

 

[Greybeard33]

No different to today really. The 802 changes cost a unit in their own right (~15 min dwells at Manchester Victoria each way to join up the paths, plus a longer turnaround at Liverpool) and only 'save' 5 units in return. So in essence 4 extra 802s sitting around.

Don't get me wrong, it's disappointing, but the ambition is clearly still there.

But in the May timetable the Newcastle trains (802 worked) turn back at Victoria (40 minute layover), with the hourly Liverpool services linked through to Scarborough again (185s or Mk5As). This will 'save' 2 802s relative to today's timetable, where they spend 2 more hours going to Liverpool and back.

 

[Gareth4949]

Looks like the GTR timetable is now on real time trains . If it’s showing correct it looks more like the pre Covid timetable with services like the peak Eastbourne to London Bridge reinstated

 

[JonathanH]

Looks like the GTR timetable is now on real time trains . If it’s showing correct it looks more like the pre Covid timetable with services like the peak Eastbourne to London Bridge reinstated

Anything with a Q next to it (or Runs as required) should be assumed not to be running.

There are lots of these services, including the Eastbourne peak services. They are there simply to reserve the path in the timetable. They may be removed properly at some point.

 

[miklcct]

Looks like Weymouth - Waterloo service will return to 2 tph, but the stopper still terminates at Bournemouth, leaving Branksome and Parkstone still only having 1 tph Mon - Fri off-peak.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Looks like Weymouth - Waterloo service will return to 2 tph, but the stopper still terminates at Bournemouth, leaving Branksome and Parkstone still only having 1 tph Mon - Fri off-peak.

Sounds a very sensible compromise.

 

[Watershed]

But in the May timetable the Newcastle trains (802 worked) turn back at Victoria (40 minute layover), with the hourly Liverpool services linked through to Scarborough again (185s or Mk5As). This will 'save' 2 802s relative to today's timetable, where they spend 2 more hours going to Liverpool and back.

It's a little more complex than that.

Pre-Covid there was (in theory) both an hourly LIV-EDB and a MIA-NCL service. These ran ~15 mins apart from MCV-NCL.

In the current Covid timetable, those two are joined up into a LIV-NCL service, with a dwell at MCV to match up the paths.

In the May timetable, that was due to change to a LIV-YRK and a MCV-NCL service. In other words just keeping parts of the former services, but resulting in an additional 1tph between MCV-YRK compared to today.

However that has now reverted to the current position (LIV-NCL with a dwell at MCV).

Neither of these two positions are ideal - for obvious reasons - but the long term outcome, as part of the ECML recast and the MRTF consultation, is likely to be the split LIV-YRK/MCV-NCL pattern as was due to start in May.

 

[Greybeard33]

It's a little more complex than that.

Pre-Covid there was (in theory) both an hourly LIV-EDB and a MIA-NCL service. These ran ~15 mins apart from MCV-NCL.

In the current Covid timetable, those two are joined up into a LIV-NCL service, with a dwell at MCV to match up the paths.

In the May timetable, that was due to change to a LIV-YRK and a MCV-NCL service. In other words just keeping parts of the former services, but resulting in an additional 1tph between MCV-YRK compared to today.

However that has now reverted to the current position (LIV-NCL with a dwell at MCV).

Neither of these two positions are ideal - for obvious reasons - but the long term outcome, as part of the ECML recast and the MRTF consultation, is likely to be the split LIV-YRK/MCV-NCL pattern as was due to start in May.

What is actually loaded in RTT for 16 May onwards is neither of those two positions. 3tph between York and Victoria, consisting of 1tph Saltburn/Redcar - Manchester Airport, 1tph Scarborough - Liverpool and 1tph Newcastle - Victoria. Only the 1tph to Liverpool, although with half-hour gaps in the timetable at Victoria for a potential future Liverpool - York service.

Unless this changes, TPE will be using two less 802s than in the current 2tph York - Victoria pattern.

 

[Watershed]

What is actually loaded in RTT for 16 May onwards is neither of those two positions. 3tph between York and Victoria, consisting of 1tph Saltburn/Redcar - Manchester Airport, 1tph Scarborough - Liverpool and 1tph Newcastle - Victoria. Only the 1tph to Liverpool, although with half-hour gaps in the timetable at Victoria for a potential future Liverpool - York service.

Unless this changes, TPE will be using two less 802s than in the current 2tph York - Victoria pattern.

Well I can assure you that's not what will run. Though it will be different on weekends.

 

[miklcct]

Sounds a very sensible compromise.

Do you seriously think that having only 1 tph at Branksome is sensible?!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Do you seriously think that having only 1 tph at Branksome is sensible?!

There’s many stations which used to have 2tph that are currently having to make do with 1tph.

Extending the stopper back to Poole is very resource hungry for a train which was always very lightly loaded beyond Bournemouth.

 

[xotGD]

Well I can assure you that's not what will run. Though it will be different on weekends.

RTT is currently showing Scarborough - York shuttles on Saturdays. Hopefully that is not the final plan.

 

[Watershed]

RTT is currently showing Scarborough - York shuttles on Saturdays. Hopefully that is not the final plan.

Unfortunately, it is. Have another look at RTT, I think you'll find it's updated overnight.

 

[Greybeard33]

Unfortunately, it is. Have another look at RTT, I think you'll find it's updated overnight.

Indeed, RTT now shows the current service pattern through the TPE core continuing until (at least) 10th September.

With only 3tph between Manchester and Leeds (including the Piccadilly - Hull), I fear severe overcrowding in the summer.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Indeed, RTT now shows the current service pattern through the TPE core continuing until (at least) 10th September.

With only 3tph between Manchester and Leeds (including the Piccadilly - Hull), I fear severe overcrowding in the summer.

Severe overcrowding is probably needed in order to convince the powers that be that the service needs increasing

 

[Glenn1969]

Severe overcrowding is probably needed in order to convince the powers that be that the service needs increasing

There has always been severe overcrowding even with 4/5tph pre Covid. Are longer trains an option with the reduced timetable continuing which it appears to do all week