Heaton Derailment 22/03/22

[HSP 2]

If it was the front there wouldn’t be all that damage infront of it.

I keep looking at the track that is to the side of the derailed train in the photo!

 

[skyhigh]

could this be enough to write 802 207 off?

I would be absolutely stunned if it gets written off over this.

 

[800001]

I would be absolutely stunned if it gets written off over this.

Agreed, to my knowledge 4 coaches escaped unscathed, worst case scenario rear car written off, new carriage built.

 

[bengley]

Latest I've heard is due to the expense of a re-railing job, one of the options being considered is to cut up and scrap the derailed coach on site.

 

[ScouserGirl]

Latest I've heard is due to the expense of a re-railing job, one of the options being considered is to cut up and scrap the derailed coach on site.

Asif that's going to happen to a brand new train.

 

[bengley]

Asif that's going to happen to a brand new train.

More likely than you'd think. Two road cranes are required to lift the derailed coach (which is also under wires). No road access near the coach and rail cranes aren't suitable for the job. So it'll be an extremely expensive job, possibly costing more than the coach is worth. Insurance will pay for a new coach to be built.

 

[Driver068]

Latest I've heard is due to the expense of a re-railing job, one of the options being considered is to cut up and scrap the derailed coach on site.

Highly unlikely considering that road is consistently used for shunts, arrivals and departures so my guess would be for it to be cleared asap and points repaired.

 

[GB]

Asif that's going to happen to a brand new train.

There is a loss adjuster heading to site (if not there already) for exactly that. It won't be the whole train that would be potentially written off, just the derailed vehicle.

 

[High Dyke]

Very strange , interesting to know what actually happened. From the pictures it looks like it attempted to use the hand rail and not the track rail?

I would suggest at that time of the morning it was tired and wanted a lie down...

 

[GB]

Highly unlikely considering that road is consistently used for shunts, arrivals and departures so my guess would be for it to be cleared asap and points repaired.

If the recovery of unit and repairs to infrastructure are going to take several days or more, depending on the cost of damage to the unit it might be cheaper and quicker to cut up on site.

 

[DanNCL]

Getting a road vehicle to the site will be near impossible. Overhead wires and the close vicinity of the metro track (the derailment happening on the track in the depot closest to the Metro alignment) will make recovery incredibly difficult.

It will be possible to recover the vehicle from the site, just very difficult. Whether it’s economic to do so is another matter.

 

[bengley]

From what I can tell, not knowing the depot, there is no access to the train on the depot site and the only option I can see being potentially feasible, would be to use cranes from the adjacent wasteland which is on the other side of the metro lines. Quite a major job to be truthful.

 

[DanNCL]

From what I can tell, not knowing the depot, there is no access to the train on the depot site and the only option I can see being potentially feasible, would be to use cranes from the adjacent wasteland which is on the other side of the metro lines. Quite a major job to be truthful.

Any recovery that isn’t cut up on site will almost certainly require the metro line to be shut.

 

[class 9]

Negative - according to reports at some point that vehicle would of been the front as the signal passed is further back - so the unit was coming onto the depot not leaving.

This is what i mean about speculation as the detailed vehicle would of been forward facing. The extent of the damage to the parapit would of been caused by the metal fence running along side bringing the wall down on initial impact.

If you look at the first photo in post #8, it shows damage to wall and metal fencing behind the derailed vehicle, so presumably this vehicle was the rear vehicle.

 

[bengley]

Any recovery that isn’t cut up on site will almost certainly require the metro line to be shut.

Yep so another cost to consider would be compensation to Metro, which would no doubt be 6 figures.

 

[DanNCL]

Yep so another cost to consider would be compensation to Metro, which would no doubt be 6 figures.

Not if they can keep the closure down to between 01:00 and 05:00.

 

[bengley]

Not if they can keep the closure down to between 01:00 and 05:00.

True. I'm sure all these things are under consideration. That is all assuming that the wasteland is even suitable for vehicles. It doesn't look great.

 

[DanNCL]

True. I'm sure all these things are under consideration. That is all assuming that the wasteland is even suitable for vehicles. It doesn't look great.

Road access can be achieved via the metro lines without use of the waste land. There’s a nearby road access point often used by Nexus as a works compound.

 

[800001]

Let’s just say the discussion around cutting up the damaged carriage is very true, and actively been discussed in internal discussions, it is not the typical railway rumour.

However, that is just one aspect of discussion, with cranes etc still being discussed.

With the Production line at Hitachi’s Merchant Park facility still building the 80x Series if unit, it would be a possibility that they could build 1 carriage for this unit.

 

[millemille]

Getting a road vehicle to the site will be near impossible. Overhead wires and the close vicinity of the metro track (the derailment happening on the track in the depot closest to the Metro alignment) will make recovery incredibly difficult.

It will be possible to recover the vehicle from the site, just very difficult. Whether it’s economic to do so is another matter.

Temporary removal of the overhead wires in the yard, couple of Kirow's to lift the vehicle back upright, stick it on wheel skates and Robert's your brother's uncle.

Dangerous Dave would have that out before you knew it...

 

[dgl]

Latest I've heard is due to the expense of a re-railing job, one of the options being considered is to cut up and scrap the derailed coach on site.

Given the issues with the 80x maybe that will factor in the cost of making another vehicle vs. rescuing and repairing whats derailed, might be cheaper in the long term to have a vehicle without cracking issues.

 

[millemille]

Let’s just say the discussion around cutting up the damaged carriage is very true, and actively been discussed in internal discussions, it is not the typical railway rumour.

However, that is just one aspect of discussion, with cranes etc still being discussed.

With the Production line at Hitachi’s Merchant Park facility still building the 80x Series if unit, it would be a possibility that they could build 1 carriage for this unit.

Pfffft! What's the modern railway come to? That vehicle looks like one of Dangerous Dave's training course scenarios. He'd have expected a novice Fleet Recovery Engineer to get that back and out...

 

[DanNCL]

With the Production line at Hitachi’s Merchant Park facility still building the 80x Series if unit, it would be a possibility that they could build 1 carriage for this unit.

One could be delivered quite quickly too if it were be diverted from the Avanti order, and a new one built later to replace it in the Avanti unit.

 

[800001]

One could be delivered quite quickly too if it were be diverted from the Avanti order, and a new one built later to replace it in the Avanti unit.

Exactly!! 30 days to build one carriage, 30 days to test!

But, seriously, there is a load of there shells still in storage on Humberside, worst case scenario Aycliffe now has the welding section so may also be capable of building a new carriage.

 

[aleggatta]

Whilst I appreciate the dramatics of the potential for a cut up on site, is there any reason why they couldn't block the unit, cut the track out from under it and try pulling it back and attempt to guide it back to the road to a more upright position for a standard re-rail job? Even with the potential additional inspections required for a violent manoeuvre that may be required, surely it would be a little more cost effective to try to rescue the stricken unit than simply getting the torches out on site (plus the additional need to make the train safe to work on in its current state)

Another thought, does anyone know the lifting capacities of a military helicopter?

 

[DanNCL]

Whilst I appreciate the dramatics of the potential for a cut up on site, is there any reason why they couldn't block the unit, cut the track out from under it and try pulling it back and attempt to guide it back to the road to a more upright position for a standard re-rail job? Even with the potential additional inspections required for a violent manoeuvre that may be required, surely it would be a little more cost effective to try to rescue the stricken unit than simply getting the torches out on site (plus the additional need to make the train safe to work on in its current state)

Another thought, does anyone know the lifting capacities of a military helicopter?

The issue is time. They need that track reopened quickly so will need to remove the damaged carriage as quickly as possible. If the quickest way to remove it with the constraints of the site is to cut it up in situ then that’ll likely be what happens.

Some military helicopters probably would be capable of lifting it but I really can’t see that happening!

 

[MadMarsupial]

Depending which published figure you believe ( they vary ) a Chinook can lift between 10-12 tonnes.

 

[AndyPJG]

True. I'm sure all these things are under consideration. That is all assuming that the wasteland is even suitable for vehicles. It doesn't look great.

looks like hardstanding, albeit a bit overgrown. Maybe an overnight job for Ainscough?

 

[800001]

Update.

Unit to be shored up tomorrow.
Thurs overhead line work to take place to allow positioning of cranes.
Friday unit recovery to commence.

 

[ainsworth74]

Should we expect continuing disruption to services or will they be able to work around it?