The dreaded British Summer Time (BST) change coming again - what happens to trains and connections running at that time?

[miklcct]

The dreaded BST change will happen this spring on 27 March at 01:00 GMT - 02:00 BST. There are trains scheduled to run on some lines, including South West Main Line at that time, and connections happening at that time.

An example itinerary is Winchester - Totton, where the journey starts, and a change from train to replacement bus at Eastleigh happens in the forbidden hour. Journey planners all show nonsense because the time itself is nonsense.



Looking at the timetable it seems that from London, only SWR and Thameslink networks have trains running so late at night, and only the SWR ones have connections during / after the forbidden hour. (00:10 Waterloo to Eastleigh with replacement buses afterwards to Bournemouth; 01:05 from Waterloo to Basingstoke with a replacement bus afterwards to Southampton)

For the Waterloo - Basingstoke service, the same nonsense can be triggered by searching Woking - Winchester as well, where the whole journey is suggested to be done in 9 minutes:


Another journey to test is Gatwick Airport - Three Bridges, where Thameslink website shows -55m as the journey time.



What will happen on that day for these services which start at / run across the forbidden hour? It should be simple to use a computer to list out all services which is scheduled across the forbidden hour in the permanent timetable and STP (short term planning) them on the day to get rid of these nonsense.

 

[Watershed]

I suspect the trains and buses will all run to the "original" timings as if no clock change had happened. It is very unlikely that they would wait around for an hour at the first call after the clock change!

Fortunately it appears there are few if any services which start in the 1-2am time period (apart fro replacement buses which obviously would connect with the trains they're replacing).

It is one of many vagaries in the system and if you are unlucky, you could easily miss your last train of the day as a result of this!

 

[dk1]

I've never heard it referred to as 'dreaded' before.

 

[miklcct]

I've never heard it referred to as 'dreaded' before.

It causes problems that now most people want to abolish it and stay at one timezone - the EU voted to abolish it before Brexit but couldn't make progress unfortunately.

As a software developer it causes massive problems when developing software, e.g. journey planners which works across the change.

 

[Wolfie]

I've never heard it referred to as 'dreaded' before.

Exactly. It's been done for years and works perfectly well. Yet again our friend seems to be comparing UK to Hong Kong which stopped making the change in the late 70s.

 

[swt_passenger]

It causes problems that now most people want to abolish it and stay at one timezone - the EU voted to abolish it before Brexit but couldn't make progress unfortunately.

As a software developer it causes massive problems when developing software, e.g. journey planners which works across the change.

It happens twice a year and nearly every time someone starts yet another thread asking about it.

Forbidden? Dreaded? Get over it…

 

[Wolfie]

It causes problems that now most people want to abolish it and stay at one timezone - the EU voted to abolish it before Brexit but couldn't make progress unfortunately.

As a software developer it causes massive problems when developing software, e.g. journey planners which works across the change.

Evidence for the assertion over people's attitude in your first sentence? There are good reasons, involving geographic placement, why we make the change.

 

[dk1]

It causes problems that now most people want to abolish it and stay at one timezone - the EU voted to abolish it before Brexit but couldn't make progress unfortunately.

As a software developer it causes massive problems when developing software, e.g. journey planners which works across the change.

I quite like the way we are different so personally happy for it to stay. Ironically my roster clerk overlooked it when changing todays shift meaning I haven’t got the statutory 12hrs rest before my Sunday turn. Currently being looked into at as I type.

 

[Wolfie]

It happens twice a year and nearly every time someone starts yet another thread asking about it.

Forbidden? Dreaded? Get over it…

Agreed. There are much bigger issues to worry about.

 

[RT4038]

I suspect the trains and buses will all run to the "original" timings as if no clock change had happened. It is very unlikely that they would wait around for an hour at the first call after the clock change!

Fortunately it appears there are few if any services which start in the 1-2am time period (apart fro replacement buses which obviously would connect with the trains they're replacing).

It is one of many vagaries in the system and if you are unlucky, you could easily miss your last train of the day as a result of this!

Why would any train or bus 'wait around for an hour'? Surely that would make them two hours late this Sunday instead of one?

 

[dk1]

Exactly. It's been done for years and works perfectly well. Yet again our friend seems to be comparing UK to Hong Kong which stopped making the change in the late 70s.

We don’t need to change or follow anyone else.

 

[swt_passenger]

Here’s last autumn’s thread. The subject of software did come up:

Daylight saving and railways discussion

Feel free to discuss anything to do with the twice yearly clocks change. But I have 2 questions to start things off 1. What happens to timetables with the extra hour next week? Do trains just wait for an hour somewhere or arrive early. I know not much runs on sat night/sun mornings. Do the...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[duncanp]

Why would any train or bus 'wait around for an hour'? Surely that would make them two hours late this Sunday instead of one?

This is what Amtrak trains running overnight do when the clocks move forward.

They arrive at the first station that they are scheduled to call at after the timezone change, wait there for an hour, and then continue on their journey.

In a country such as the US, trains have to cope with multiple time zones throughout the year, and anomalies such as Arizona, which doesn't obeserve daylight saving time, and Indiana, where different parts of the state are in different time zones.

 

[miklcct]

Evidence for the assertion over people's attitude in your first sentence? There are good reasons, involving geographic placement, why we make the change.

80% of the respondents supported abolishing it in an EU-wide survey

And it has been proven that traffic accidents increase immediately after the spring time change.

I quite like the way we are different so personally happy for it to stay. Ironically my roster clerk overlooked it when changing todays shift meaning I haven’t got the statutory 12hrs rest before my Sunday turn. Currently being looked into at as I type.

That's exactly the problem of such time changes. It causes unnecessary work on planners, needing to make special timetables twice a year.

 

[Western Sunset]

It's all really quite simple. From "Oh Mr Porter!":

"Wait a minute. What day is it?
It's our last if we don't get this shifted.
It's the 19th.
''On April 19th, summertime will start.
Adjust your clocks.''
See, we've got lots of time.
Correct... That's addressed to me.
Why are you opening my letters?
To tell you who it's from.
In future, you leave my letters alone!
''To adjust the service, the 11 o'clock
express will run at 12 o'clock.''
What's the hurry? We've got two hours.
How come?
The clocks go back an hour
and the train's an hour late.
No, the clocks go forward and the train
back. The express is due any minute.
How can it be if it's an hour late?
It's summertime.
He's potty. Summer or winter,
if a train's late, it's late.
But the clocks go forward.
Then the train's gone!
No, no, the clocks go back.
You take an hour off the end of the day.
No, off the beginning.
That's wintertime!
Wintertime you put 'em back.
I said that!
You said you put it back in summer.
If the clocks go forward, the train's early.
You put the clocks back, not forward,
and you put the train back.
I see. You put everything back.
Yes.
Sorry. You're right."

 

[yorksrob]

I've never heard it referred to as 'dreaded' before.

I dread it as it means I have to get up an hour earlier.

 

[dk1]

I dread it as it means I have to get up an hour earlier.

Haha but once you’re up it’s all good & summer sunshine is drawing ever closer.

 

[Watershed]

Why would any train or bus 'wait around for an hour'? Surely that would make them two hours late this Sunday instead of one?

Because the clocks go back an hour. So if they arrive at a station at 01:29 and are due to depart at 01:30, arriving at their destination at 02:10, there is an argument to say that theoretically they should wait 61 minutes for the 'second' 01:30 before departing.

In practice, trains accidentally leave before their booked departure time all the time, and there is no chance that traincrew will sit around for an hour on a Saturday night twiddling their thumbs.

 

[yorksrob]

Haha but once you’re up it’s all good & summer sunshine is drawing ever closer.

No, it just means I have to be at work earlier.

I wish they'd stop faffing around with the time to be honest.

 

[DelayRepay]

Because the clocks go back an hour. So if they arrive at a station at 01:29 and are due to depart at 01:30, arriving at their destination at 02:10, there is an argument to say that theoretically they should wait 61 minutes for the 'second' 01:30 before departing.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news if you were looking forward to an extra hour's lie in, but they go forwards so we lose an hour. So the replacement bus would have to set off an hour early to arrive on time.

Hm - wonder what potential there is for delay repay

 

[dk1]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news if you were looking forward to an extra hour's lie in, but they go forwards so we lose an hour. So the replacement bus would have to set off an hour early to arrive on time.

Hm - wonder what potential there is for delay repay

Thankfully fewer late night trains operate on Saturday night/Sunday mornings in many areas.

 

[High Dyke]

This is the information I've read about it. As advised to rail staff in the Weekly Operating Notice (WON)

Trains due to commence their journey before 0100 hours GMT on Sunday 27 March 2022 will continue throughout to their destination behind time. All trains due to commence their journey between 0100 hours and 0200 hours on Sunday 27 March
2022 will start 60 minutes late and run late unless otherwise shown in Special Traffic Notices. Trains booked to commence their journey at or after 0200 British Summer Time on Sunday 27 March 2022 must start as booked unless altered in the Special Traffic Notices. Depots are to adjust train crew booking on times accordingly.

 

[AlterEgo]

No, it just means I have to be at work earlier.

I wish they'd stop faffing around with the time to be honest.

I agree - keep BST all year! Longer and lighter evenings please!

 

[yorksrob]

I agree - keep BST all year! Longer and lighter evenings please!

Works for me !

 

[DelW]

I agree - keep BST all year! Longer and lighter evenings please!

Works for me !

As almost everyone under 60 doesn't know, this change was made in the late 1960s. Permanent summer time was introduced, renamed British Standard Time.

It was very unpopular. In the Midlands, it was dark until nearly nine o'clock, northern England half past nine, in Scotland nearly ten o'clock. Children had to go to school through dark still-frozen streets and accidents increased. I think that this was what prompted the introduction of flashing amber lights at school crossings, which hadn't existed before.

After a few years it was abandoned and twice-yearly changes reinstated.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

As almost everyone under 60 doesn't know, this change was made in the late 1960s. Permanent summer time was introduced, renamed British Standard Time.

It was very unpopular. In the Midlands, it was dark until nearly nine o'clock, northern England half past nine, in Scotland nearly ten o'clock. Children had to go to school through dark still-frozen streets and accidents increased. I think that this was what prompted the introduction of flashing amber lights at school crossings, which hadn't existed before.

After a few years it was abandoned and twice-yearly changes reinstated.

The issue of school hours is quite significant. Children typically take a little while to reach maximum concentration levels each day. Ensuring they can travel to school in daylight reduces the risk of them being involved in accidents. This risk is generally lower in the afternoons when concentration levels tend to remain high. At higher latitudes the restricted hours of daylight in the winter makes this a genuine issue. Conversely during the summer the much longer days lead to the early morning daylight being largely "wasted", hence summer time shifts the "excess" daylight to the evenings when people can make better use of it. These issues become gradually less significant as you get closer to the equator. However the whole situation can be distorted if the time being observed is out of alignment with longitude, eg Poland uses CET to be aligned with Germany meaning rather early winter sunsets in the east of the country. Of course the whole situation is totally the fault of the railways who created the concept of standard time and time zones in the first place!

 

[Peter0124]

I can't wait for this to happen as we will finally get bright 7/8pms.

A 3.30am sunrise in Scotland (if staying on GMT) seems rather wasted.

 

[Western Sunset]

This risk is generally lower in the afternoons when concentration levels tend to remain high.

Not with the children I taught at primary school...
We always tried to timetable the "core" subjects in the mornings.

 

[northwichcat]

On most routes trains stop running before 1am so it doesn't make any difference.

 

[Snow1964]

I suspect the trains and buses will all run to the "original" timings as if no clock change had happened. It is very unlikely that they would wait around for an hour at the first call after the clock change!

Fortunately it appears there are few if any services which start in the 1-2am time period (apart fro replacement buses which obviously would connect with the trains they're replacing).

It is one of many vagaries in the system and if you are unlucky, you could easily miss your last train of the day as a result of this!

You have the autumn change in mind for hanging about for an hour

This is the one where they need to engage warp drive at 00:59:59 to do an hours worth of journey in 1 second


And don’t forget that for a few years the UK also had double summer time. Sensibly that was kept to time of National crisis.