Seriously considering moving to Sligo (or somewhere)

[najaB]

Ireland is a very racist country to people who have a different skin colour.

I suspect that depends on where in the country you are. I have friends who found Dublin quite welcoming and never experienced any significant racism. It may well be different elsewhere.

 

[RT4038]

I guess people did emigrate before the EU existed, so it must be possible - just more difficult.

It is a little difficult to compare - the world was different then - but plenty of people went to Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Rhodesia, South Africa amongst others. Emigration to what are now EU countries was possible and certainly did happen; there were various schemes - au pair girls who then stayed etc.
It was more bureaucratic, but there were various agencies to help you on your way.

 

[D6130]

P+O has been mentioned elsewhere, do they employ staff with languages at their terminals on the European 'mainland'?

In fairness, now is probably not a good time to be seeking employment with P&O Ferries....even if the company does survive in the long term.

 

[permarquis]

I rarely tread the waters of the General Discussion sector, but today (possibly like yourself) I felt compelled to read this thread. Initially, I was of the view of 'Well if you don't like it, go and move then', I must confess.

However that view has changed during the thread, and reading your post tapped on the sympathy part of my brain. It reminded me I've wanted to do similar before now, maybe not as drastic a move but the same sort of goal.

This made me smile. A little empathy always goes a long way. I can see why the wording of the original post might upset some people, but people say emotional things when they're going through a tough time. At the end of the day, all anyone wants is to live a good life and be happy.

It's not that uncommon to hear people say things like "well, if you don't like it, leave", and I do understand that initial reaction, but the irony of course is that it's now much, much more difficult to do just that. So one way or another we all need to figure out how to get along!

'But ever since my European citizenship was wrested from me to placate a bunch of racists from Sunderland, I've been wondering where can I go to?'

It was sneering and condescending views like that that created the leave vote, and created the Tories majority in the last election. Do you have a problem with a majority decision?

Their word choice may not have been the most tactful, but why on earth can't they disagree with a majority decision? You'll notice that nowhere in their post do they suggest the vote should be ignored, just that they themselves feel very alienated as a result of it, much in the same way that many Brexit voters felt alienated before the vote.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

Other countries seem to have lower costs of living and similar wages, I'm thinking Germany in particular, or higher wages and similar standards of living (Netherlands) but immigration rules are very strict and I'm not sure I could get in to one of these nations any more.

It's not especially strict. If you can find a job that there were no suitable EU-applicants for(not all that difficult these days), you're in. However, realistically your chances are greatly helped by having one of

• recognised trade qualifications
• a degree and relevant work experience
• knowledge of the local language

The question is where can I move to (relatively) freely? I mean other than Ireland? I'm getting a feeling of how people in the German Democratic Republic felt.

It guess it depends on what you define as "freely". I think you are focusing on the visa requirements, but the key question is where you can find a job. No country wants people emigrating there without them having a reliable source of income. Even for immigration within the EU, it is not possible to receive unemployment benefit in a country you have never worked in.

Citizens of the GDR were denied by their own government to possibility to work abroad, and if they tried to leave they would be murdered. It's quite offensive to compare your situation to them, and if were you to come to Germany I would strongly advise you to avoid any such statements.

 

[permarquis]

If you currently live in England and want to leave, but can't find a route to settle in Europe, my suggestion would be Scotland. It's a massive oversimplification, but on balance I'd say it's a better place to live if you're on a low to middle income. England is probably a better place to live if you're on a high income, because the highs are higher (in London, for example).

I've lived in both countries for many years, and in my experience the quality of life is much higher in Scotland, generally speaking. Prescriptions, dental care (for under 26s), university tuition, water, and bus travel (for under 22s) are all free at the point of use. Dental care is also to be extended to all ages in the medium term. All of those are usually chargeable in England. This being a rail forum, I'd also say that the railway is better supported there, and infrastructure spending more consistent (the total decarbonisation of the entire railway by 2035 being a key example). There is less of the decay you find in neglected parts of England.

On the cultural point, I think Scotland is a better match for you too. Every single area in Scotland voted remain and its politics are broadly progressive, and will be for the foreseeable future. You'll find that the Conservatives up there are also much more moderate than down south. It's very far from perfect, but I suspect you'll find more to align with there than down here.

If you're set on leaving the UK, I think it's worth remembering that for all its faults, there aren't actually very many countries out there that will provide both a) a similar or better standard of living; and b) the kind of tolerant, liberal society you're looking for. On almost all measures, places like Norway and Sweden tend to come out on top, but unfortunately you'll find them amongst the harder places to move to.

 

[D6130]

On almost all measures, places like Norway and Sweden tend to come out on top, but unfortunately you'll find them amongst the harder places to move to.

....and amongst the most expensive to live in if you don't have the prospect of an immediate well-paid job!

 

[permarquis]

....and amongst the most expensive to live in if you don't have the prospect of an immediate well-paid job!

Well quite, although that's almost redundant because I don't think they'll even let you in the country to work without one (or significant savings). That said, university tuition is free there, even for international students, so if you can find a course to take you, that's one way to get your foot in the door.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

If you currently live in England and want to leave, but can't find a route to settle in Europe, my suggestion would be Scotland. It's a massive oversimplification, but on balance I'd say it's a better place to live if you're on a low to middle income. England is probably a better place to live if you're on a high income, because the highs are higher (in London, for example).

I've lived in both countries for many years, and in my experience the quality of life is much higher in Scotland, generally speaking. Prescriptions, dental care (for under 26s), university tuition, water, and bus travel (for under 22s) are all free at the point of use. Dental care is also to be extended to all ages in the medium term. All of those are usually chargeable in England. This being a rail forum, I'd also say that the railway is better supported there, and infrastructure spending more consistent (the total decarbonisation of the entire railway by 2035 being a key example). There is less of the decay you find in neglected parts of England.

On the cultural point, I think Scotland is a better match for you too. Every single area in Scotland voted remain and its politics are broadly progressive, and will be for the foreseeable future. You'll find that the Conservatives up there are also much more moderate than down south. It's very far from perfect, but I suspect you'll find more to align with there than down here.

If you're set on leaving the UK, I think it's worth remembering that for all its faults, there aren't actually very many countries out there that will provide both a) a similar or better standard of living; and b) the kind of tolerant, liberal society you're looking for. On almost all measures, places like Norway and Sweden tend to come out on top, but unfortunately you'll find them amongst the harder places to move to.

Wales has much in common with Scotland plus the chance to learn and use a 'new' (old) language in everyday life.

Settling in an unfamiliar part of the UK, say moving from Sunderland to Totnes or Thurso could be quite different and interesting enough.

 

[Falcon1200]

Prescriptions, dental care (for under 26s), university tuition, water, and bus travel (for under 22s) are all free at the point of use.

Some, but not all, of which I benefit from, plus the bus pass for over 60s. However all this has to be paid for somehow, so I pay more tax (on my pension) than I would if living in England. And of course there is the question for which the Nationalists simply will not take No for an answer, which dominates Scottish politics and is the overriding concern of the governing party, before such things as education, health, transport etc.

 

[102 fan]

This made me smile. A little empathy always goes a long way. I can see why the wording of the original post might upset some people, but people say emotional things when they're going through a tough time. At the end of the day, all anyone wants is to live a good life and be happy.

It's not that uncommon to hear people say things like "well, if you don't like it, leave", and I do understand that initial reaction, but the irony of course is that it's now much, much more difficult to do just that. So one way or another we all need to figure out how to get along!


Their word choice may not have been the most tactful, but why on earth can't they disagree with a majority decision? You'll notice that nowhere in their post do they suggest the vote should be ignored, just that they themselves feel very alienated as a result of it, much in the same way that many Brexit voters felt alienated before the vote.

They can disagree but it's when the racist term is introduced that I have a problem it.

 

[Gareth]

Bit sad that Ireland is being used as a gateway to "yurup" and not, you know, Ireland.

And when one can't be arsed learning whatever language they happen to speak in "yurup", they'll be right back here whining about how terrible it is.