National Express Coaches Discussion

[JonathanH]

The 511 would be a perfect draw if ran at the correct times for the morning stonehenge Market out of London

The Stonehenge market is handled by excursion coaches, some of which go on to other locations as part of a complete day itinerary. The idea that people would take a 'normal' coach isn't really realistic.

why not spend time advertising what you have to offer prior

I suspect National Express do have a marketing effort but it is not in the traditional places. I get Megabus adverts on the Facebook feed and National Express adverts in the 'advertising bar' on websites. Does that not count as marketing? It isn't just about billboards or local newspapers.

 

[Simon75]

National Express did gave a TV advert a few years back with David Soul driving a National Express coach singing 'Silver Lady'

 

[markymark2000]

I suspect National Express do have a marketing effort but it is not in the traditional places. I get Megabus adverts on the Facebook feed and National Express adverts in the 'advertising bar' on websites. Does that not count as marketing? It isn't just about billboards or local newspapers.

They have internet advertising but that is often targetted advertising based off resent searches.

There is not really any static, passing trade kind of advertising which promotes NatEx, the journeys or timetables, nothing.
If it wasn't for the council doing their own thing, the only NatEx promotion in Chester would be when the bus is on stand for 5 mins. Any other time, zilch.

NatEx need a bit more static advertising to promote where people can go to/from. You won't get all stops but '2 buses per day from Chester to Birmingham and London' gets people's attention.

 

[Swanny200]

I used to be a taxi driver in Wiltshire, believe me, the part of the A303 from Winterbourne Stoke to just before Amesbury was a nightmare and doubt it has changed, it isn't the first time a vehicle going along past the stones, has all of a sudden slammed on its brakes after realising it is Stonehenge, with it being single carriageway of course an accident can screw everything up. After the first time of it happening to me and being stuck for an hour and a half, I went the back roads through Shrewton and Larkhill to circumvent any hold ups as not many people know about those roads. Foreign coaches were the worst for just pulling up on the grass verge so that people could take pictures causing an obstruction. I don't know how Berrys get past it so easily

 

[M803UYA]

Foreign coaches were the worst for just pulling up on the grass verge so that people could take pictures causing an obstruction. I don't know how Berrys get past it so easily

Berrys don't - they just play roulette with the delays. It's usual for the Sunday evening superfast services to be planned with two drivers - then if there's a screw up on the A303, drivers can just change over in London. Normal services are scheduled with one driver, and sometimes there is a feeder driver in place, but the driver is expected to get on with it.... I'll leave you to work out how that plays in reality.
Longest I ever managed late was 1h20 mins on a Sunday afternoon Superfast 2. Essentially our entire layover time had been eaten up and we had to turn it around in Hammersmith. We had to swap drivers at Fleet services inbound on that journey and we then did the same at Wincanton on our way back to Taunton so I drove it into London and back out.

 

[Titfield]

They have internet advertising but that is often targetted advertising based off resent searches.

There is not really any static, passing trade kind of advertising which promotes NatEx, the journeys or timetables, nothing.
If it wasn't for the council doing their own thing, the only NatEx promotion in Chester would be when the bus is on stand for 5 mins. Any other time, zilch.

NatEx need a bit more static advertising to promote where people can go to/from. You won't get all stops but '2 buses per day from Chester to Birmingham and London' gets people's attention.

One of the core markets is seniors. Whilst there are many silver surfers, having a static advert must surely be worthwhile.

 

[JonathanH]

One of the core markets is seniors. Whilst there are many silver surfers, having a static advert must surely be worthwhile.

I doubt that it is a market they are that keen on retaining given the sort of once a day services to varied destinations that would appeal most to this group are the ones National Express don't seem to feel able to run any more.

The trunk routes that still run don't have a bias towards older passengers.

 

[Titfield]

I doubt that it is a market they are that keen on retaining given the sort of once a day services to varied destinations that would appeal most to this group are the ones National Express don't seem to feel able to run any more.

The trunk routes that still run don't have a bias towards older passengers.

Possibly not but then the question has to be who are they appealing to?

I remember their short lived go at trying to tap into the London - Birmingham business traveller market offering an hourly frequency shuttle type service but I don think that lasted long.

 

[Deerfold]

I doubt that it is a market they are that keen on retaining given the sort of once a day services to varied destinations that would appeal most to this group are the ones National Express don't seem to feel able to run any more.

The trunk routes that still run don't have a bias towards older passengers.

Yes. My parents in law were happy to plan around the daily direct service between Halifax and Leicester to avoid the 2 changes needed by train. However they'd now have to get the train to Leeds and then get across Leeds to the coach station whilst they can request help transferring between trains.

 

[dan5324]

Seniors don’t really make up a significant proportion of custom like they did. It seems to be mainly students and young professionals, the type least likely to be able/want to drive, let alone own a car. Things have changed massively. And are still changing. One of the reasons all the main uni towns have a service.

Routes like Bristol, Leeds, Birmingham, Cambridge, and Even Bournemouth have seen a huge spike in 18-35 year old users whilst the senior passenger has dropped tenfold. I believe this is influencing what routes are deemed viable and what isn’t.

 

[Titfield]

Seniors don’t really make up a significant proportion of custom like they did. It seems to be mainly students and young professionals, the type least likely to be able/want to drive, let alone own a car. Things have changed massively. And are still changing. One of the reasons all the main uni towns have a service.

Routes like Bristol, Leeds, Birmingham, Cambridge, and Even Bournemouth have seen a huge spike in 18-35 year old users whilst the senior passenger has dropped tenfold. I believe this is influencing what routes are deemed viable and what isn’t.

I thought the reason why students now use public transport so much twixt home and uni was because many unis have an absolute ban on students having cars on campus?

It would be very interesting to see some data from NExp.

 

[dan5324]

I thought the reason why students now use public transport so much twixt home and uni was because many unis have an absolute ban on students having cars on campus?

It would be very interesting to see some data from NExp.

Unfortunately the full data can’t be released as it is due to many reasons. Even I don’t have the full data just the basics. And that doesn’t include third party tickets/vendors.

 

[matt_splat]

Seniors don’t really make up a significant proportion of custom like they did. It seems to be mainly students and young professionals, the type least likely to be able/want to drive, let alone own a car. Things have changed massively. And are still changing. One of the reasons all the main uni towns have a service.

Routes like Bristol, Leeds, Birmingham, Cambridge, and Even Bournemouth have seen a huge spike in 18-35 year old users whilst the senior passenger has dropped tenfold. I believe this is influencing what routes are deemed viable and what isn’t.

But routes that seniors used have not returned the same way. Popular routes that seniors use to take from to get to Blackpool became so difficult after covid people just don't see the coach as a option anymore

I still find the frome 401 a weird one that's survived but the 403 from street has never returned..... Just the same way that some sevcies that just start in Bristol and go direct to Birmingham could provide a better link to Gloucester or Cheltenham or have a start point prior to Bristol and run further than Birmingham for example the busy looking flixbus Bristol to Leeds.... Places like Yeovil to Birmingham use to be quite popular as did Weymouth and Dorchester to Bristol and Birmingham which have never returned while the 103 which did appear misses those vital areas out and never caters for the stonehenge market..... Bristol bath Oxford is another knowing regular drivers who use to have a full coach to Bath of all ages

 

[Merle Haggard]

I remember their short lived go at trying to tap into the London - Birmingham business traveller market offering an hourly frequency shuttle type service but I don think that lasted long.

I think that was a 'spite' service when Nat Exp didn't get, or lost, a T.O.C. franchise

 

[Titfield]

Unfortunately the full data can’t be released as it is due to many reasons. Even I don’t have the full data just the basics. And that doesn’t include third party tickets/vendors.

I appreciate that but some market segment data would be useful. The full year results for 2021 which were released two weeks ago dont really say much.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well, I made my first National express long-distance journey for some years on Friday night and can't say I'll be in hurry to do another one. That said, with the costs of everything skyrocketing, if they dangle another £15 advance in front of me I might buy it on the Trainline app. The journey was Edinburgh to London but when I overheard a gentleman behind me checking in to go to Heathrow I asked the driver very nicely if I could get off there as well, despite my ticket and its plethora of restrictions. The driver had absolutely no trouble with this and I was able to complete my journey without going anywhere near the fettered hellhole that is Victoria Coach Station.


Pleasantly surprised to get one of the new generation of coaches but this pleasantness wore off when the underfloor heating kicked in and my feet got too warm. I also didn't find the seat all that comfortable for a long journey and there were assorted rattles and other things. USB points directly in front of you on the seat backs were a handy feature though and the toilet was spotlessly clean in fact I don't recall anyone else using it all night and I think I was awake for all of it.


Not entirely sure why we did a comfort stop at a service stop where virtually nothing was open but I guess someone knows what they're doing.

 

[Titfield]

Not entirely sure why we did a comfort stop at a service stop where virtually nothing was open but I guess someone knows what they're doing.

If the vehicle was single manned and given the route, the driver would be taking a mandatory legal break.

 

[cambsy]

Blind traveler and Titfield, When i did the 594 21.50 Edinburgh-Victoria a couple months ago we had 2 drivers as far a Charnock Richard, where one went back to Edinburgh, and the other one took us non stop to Victoria. They put our Heathrow passengers on the 595, which had stopped Charnock Richard too, and had plenty of space and we went onto arrive 55 mins early at Victoria. The Nat Ex services seem to stop at whichever services they need to whether properly open or not, and there have been 2 drivers, so not a legal break, but a comfort stop. I will admit, it seems a bit of a waste of time, but other passengers need leg stretch, and fag etc.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I've just looked up where we stopped the courtesy of Google maps timeline, and it was sandbach. We carried two drivers until that point and then the other went back North while the other took the service on

 

[GusB]

I've just looked up where we stopped the courtesy of Google maps timeline, and it was sandbach. We carried two drivers until that point and then the other went back North while the other took the service on

I recall a similar situation on an Aberdeen to London journey many years ago when we stopped at Southwaite (I think).

Am I remembering correctly that the driver doing the short stint was referred to as a "jump driver"?

 

[Statto]

I was on the Liverpool to London coach one year which stopped for a driver change at Knutsford Services, even though it was just under an hour into the route.

I get that driver breaks are at service stations, but i find it weird National Express have driver changes at service stations rather than interchanges, unless it's a non stop route

 

[markymark2000]

I was on the Liverpool to London coach one year which stopped for a driver change at Knutsford Services, even though it was just under an hour into the route.

I get that driver breaks are at service stations, but i find it weird National Express have driver changes at service stations rather than interchanges, unless it's a non stop route

I had that on a 550 as well when they had Liverpool-Chester-(Norton Cannes)-Milton Keynes-London. The route was about 6.5 hours end to end scheduled so the solution to save double manning was to use shunt or shuttle drivers (Can't think of the proper name) to get the coach to Knutsford then have another driver take over as they could then do the full rest of the route within driving hours. It would be impossible for the driver to do depot-Liverpool-London-Liverpool-Depot within driving hours. The drivers doing Knutsford to London had plenty of driving hours including for holdups.

As for using stops, that would involve a lot more shunt vehicles and wouldn't work for driving hours in many cases. Especially when the stops can be so far apart. Knutsford Services is not too far from both of Selwyns depots and it is a good point which means that the drivers aren't travelling too far to/from the depot but also being in a good place so that drivers heading from the services to London can do so maximising driving hours. Very good system really.

 

[dan5324]

Companies in general don’t like double manning. Heaven forbid they pay for a driver to travel as passenger. They much prefer to use shuttle vehicles to carry drivers to services and swap drivers there. Even though double manning is more flexible, it’s more expensive.

Shuttle vans that don’t container tachometers make it much easier to “fiddle” tachos too. But we not talk about that…

 

[Simon75]

About 2018/19) got a coach from London to Stoke-on-Trent (can't remember the number)
It was late arriving to Victoria, and was late departing north. Although 'double manned' , it was late due drivers hours regulations, as both 'drivers' needed their break

I was on the Liverpool to London coach one year which stopped for a driver change at Knutsford Services, even though it was just under an hour into the route.

I get that driver breaks are at service stations, but i find it weird National Express have driver changes at service stations rather than interchanges, unless it's a non stop route

Travel de Courcey did driver change over at Corley services

 

[cambsy]

@dan5324, when I used overnight 404 and 406 services from Exeter to London, run by Parks of Hamilton, they have in recent journeys been double manned and I think even the day services are too, though they have not done many day services from Exeter etc. I believe from what the drivers said, the double manning is required by National Express for safety reasons, especially on overnight runs, because risk of falling asleep at the wheel and they are both there to help make sure the other one is awake and ok.

 

[185]

As for using stops, that would involve a lot more shunt vehicles and wouldn't work for driving hours in many cases. Especially when the stops can be so far apart. Knutsford Services is not too far from both of Selwyns depots and it is a good point which means that the drivers aren't travelling too far to/from the depot but also being in a good place so that drivers heading from the services to London can do so maximising driving hours. Very good system really.

Sellys use a few places, including on Cavendish Farm road, right outside the depot where the feeder driver gets on / off (eg the old Wrexham - Edinburgh used to pick up a 2nd driver outside, 1st would get off at Ripon). Also a regular one was the layby just north of Stretton roundabout M56-J10 (drive out in the van)... all depends on the duty a driver is on.

 

[route101]

I used the 032 last night and both the last 032s were delayed by around 20 minutes by drivers needing a tacho break. Victoria Bus station was pretty busy too. Lots of services heading to Bristol/Bath.

 

[Smethwickian]

This page on the NX website https://www.nationalexpress.com/en/help/live-service-updates now gives a vague idea which services are being considered for reintroduction at some vague and unspecified date in either 2022 or 2023. Trust me, nothing is confirmed and when it says no firm dates have been decided, no dates have been decided.
Contains many conundrums.
Grimsby and Louth possibly back but no Skegness this year, even though summer services ran from Brum, Leicester and Coventry last year.
Crowden and Hollingworth in 2022 suggest direct Sheffield-Manchester (via Woodhead Pass) but bypassing Stocksbridge in future.
Stevenage is on the 2022 list, having only just been dumped because of the diversion of the 737.
All very mysterious, doesn't help passengers plan much and doesn't inspire confidence in potential customers.

 

[cambsy]

I'm looking for when the 106 from Penzance to Birmingham runs again, as it gave good extra journey in the early hours from Exeter to London, with a change. The 501- 03.00 approx Plymouth-London, and 501-21.00 London-Plymouth were both useful services with some of the stops coming back in 2022-2023. It hints at some good services returning, so thats a positive. I'm just hoping that services improve from the south west for the summer season and beyond.

 

[route101]

This page on the NX website https://www.nationalexpress.com/en/help/live-service-updates now gives a vague idea which services are being considered for reintroduction at some vague and unspecified date in either 2022 or 2023. Trust me, nothing is confirmed and when it says no firm dates have been decided, no dates have been decided.
Contains many conundrums.
Grimsby and Louth possibly back but no Skegness this year, even though summer services ran from Brum, Leicester and Coventry last year.
Crowden and Hollingworth in 2022 suggest direct Sheffield-Manchester (via Woodhead Pass) but bypassing Stocksbridge in future.
Stevenage is on the 2022 list, having only just been dumped because of the diversion of the 737.
All very mysterious, doesn't help passengers plan much and doesn't inspire confidence in potential customers.

The route map is showing routes that aren't running or not yet. From Southampton its showing a route along the south coast to Brighton.