Liverpool St James - reopening - new name will be Liverpool Baltic

[Bletchleyite]

Is it really any different to 'Botanic' in Belfast?

That sounds weird too. "Botanic Gardens" would be the right name, assuming that's the context.

Or even University (Birmingham)?

Last time I checked, "University" was a noun. It sounds odd as there's no noun, though I suppose it could be seen as Liverpool (Baltic) which reads a bit less odd. It's also out of kilter with not all central Liverpool stations being prefixed.

 

[py_megapixel]

University (Birmingham) is a terrible name anyway. It should be "University of Birmingham", which is not only the actual name of the institution, but also makes it less likely that things such as ticket machines drop the Birmingham bit. I bet tickets are sold from Manchester Airport to University by mistake to people who actually want Manchester Oxford Road, for example.

 

[Bletchleyite]

University (Birmingham) is a terrible name anyway. It should be "University of Birmingham", which is not only the actual name of the institution, but also makes it less likely that things such as ticket machines drop the Birmingham bit. I bet tickets are sold from Manchester Airport to University by mistake to people who actually want Manchester Oxford Road, for example.

I'd call it "Birmingham University" because that's likely what people will ask for if travelling long distance to there. The name of that sort of institution seems to flip flop between "X University" and "University of X" depending on trend.

 

[childwallblues]

The people of Liverpool if asked where the Baltic was if they knew would direct you to the Baltic Fleet public house on the Dock Road not far from the Albert Dock. The new station is some distance from there but somebody has used "artistic licence" to call a large area which probably has no bounaries Baltic!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The people of Liverpool if asked where the Baltic was if they knew would direct you to the Baltic Fleet public house on the Dock Road not far from the Albert Dock. The new station is some distance from there but somebody has used "artistic licence" to call a large area which probably has no bounaries Baltic!

Even "The Baltic" sounds less clumsy than what is proposed.

While I'm a bit "out of date" in my Liverpool knowledge, I have the impression it's sort of the equivalent of Manchester's Northern Quarter.

 

[Djgr]

Even "The Baltic" sounds less clumsy than what is proposed.

While I'm a bit "out of date" in my Liverpool knowledge, I have the impression it's sort of the equivalent of Manchester's Northern Quarter.

Yes it is. I think that they didn't propose to include the word "Triangle" in the station name because the long term plan for this area is that it will not be (approximately) triangular in shape.

 

[urbophile]

I'm still irritated by the inclusion of 'Liverpool' in the name. Nobody would be travelling directly there from outside the city region; they will have had to change onto the local network. Italy and some other continental systems have the convention of including the city name in even minor stations within the boundaries, but we don't, and to be consistent we'd have to rename many others. The city name should be reserved for major termini. James Street and Moorfields are much more central than Baltic and they don't (generally) get the prefix. Even Liverpool Central is an accident of history because it happens to be the basement of a former major terminus.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm still irritated by the inclusion of 'Liverpool' in the name. Nobody would be travelling directly there from outside the city region; they will have had to change onto the local network. Italy and some other continental systems have the convention of including the city name in even minor stations within the boundaries, but we don't, and to be consistent we'd have to rename many others. The city name should be reserved for major termini. James Street and Moorfields are much more central than Baltic and they don't (generally) get the prefix. Even Liverpool Central is an accident of history because it happens to be the basement of a former major terminus.

It's notable that in Newcastle the name "Central Station" is used for the Metro at Newcastle Central mainline station. And on Merseyrail Lime St is just Lime St.

As I said, Baltic Triangle. It might not now be a triangle, but it's common parlance.

 

[pdeaves]

The name 'Liverpool Baltic' sounds to me like an Indian takeaway (Balti)! I expect by the time the station actually opens we will have got used to the name and it will just get on with serving the local populace without fuss or issue.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Baltic Triangle would have been very apt:

 

[Bletchleyite]

The name 'Liverpool Baltic' sounds to me like an Indian takeaway (Balti)! I expect by the time the station actually opens we will have got used to the name and it will just get on with serving the local populace without fuss or issue.

It'll just join the occasional thread about badly named stations, I guess. A bit like "Headbolt Lane" if they don't prefix it - no problem on Merseyrail itself, but it will be confusing to see that on displays at say Manchester Victoria.

 

[Clansman]

Liverpool Baltic? How cold is it!?

 

[Llandudno]

It'll just join the occasional thread about badly named stations, I guess. A bit like "Headbolt Lane" if they don't prefix it - no problem on Merseyrail itself, but it will be confusing to see that on displays at say Manchester Victoria.

Or even more so from stations between Blackburn and Manchester Victoria seeing as though most Kirkby trains originate from Blackburn via Accrington, Burnley and Todmorden!

 

[Mikey C]

The name 'Liverpool Baltic' sounds to me like an Indian takeaway (Balti)!

I thought that too, Birmingham should have a "Balti Triangle" station

 

[plugwash]

It'll just join the occasional thread about badly named stations, I guess. A bit like "Headbolt Lane" if they don't prefix it - no problem on Merseyrail itself, but it will be confusing to see that on displays at say Manchester Victoria.

While a station named after a road is an extreme case, there seem to be a number of places where the terminus of a long distance "regional" train is a local station whose names is far less well known than the names of places along the route. Hazel Grove (services from Blackpool), Redcar (services from Manchester), Barrow-in-Furness and Alderly Edge (services from southport) spring to mind.

 

[Bletchleyite]

While a station named after a road is an extreme case, there seem to be a number of places where the terminus of a long distance "regional" train is a local station whose names is far less well known than the names of places along the route. Hazel Grove (services from Blackpool), Redcar (services from Manchester), Barrow-in-Furness and Alderly Edge (services from southport) spring to mind.

I'll give you most of those, but I doubt there is anyone along the route of the Manchester Airport-Barrow service who doesn't at least have an inkling of where Barrow is. If only because "Chewits are even chewier than Barrow-in-Furness bus depot" (I think there were regional variants of this).

I suppose people will get used to it, but I would be surprised if it doesn't end up with a prefix/suffix on the PIS even if it doesn't get one on the signage or in the fares database (as indeed Kirkby itself does in the fares DB only). I'd expect it'll be something like "Kirkby Headbolt Lane", "Headbolt Lane (Kirkby)" or somesuch.

 

[plugwash]

I can't ever recall hearing "Chewits are even chewier than Barrow-in-Furness bus depot", googling it it seems it was before my time.

I do have a clue where barrow-in-furness is, but only because it's a railway turminus, not for any other reason.

 

[Geeves]

Will the Baltic Station fall into the generic "Liverpool stations" anyway? Potentially it will never appear on a ticket.

As for people turning up at Oxford Road with tickets for "University" the times it has happened is zero.

 

[D821]

What currently counts as "All Liverpool stations" on a ticket? I'd assumed it was just Central, Lime Street, James Street and Moorfields.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What currently counts as "All Liverpool stations" on a ticket? I'd assumed it was just Central, Lime Street, James Street and Moorfields.

Those four, yes. As it is in the city centre and has Liverpool in the name it probably would make sense for Baltic to be a fifth.

 

[BeijingDave]

Is it really any different to 'Botanic' in Belfast?

Or even University (Birmingham)?

University has to be the most ludicrously named station on the whole network.

Especially since there are now three just in Birmingham.

 

[Bletchleyite]

University has to be the most ludicrously named station on the whole network.

If you consider the Cross-City to be an S-Bahn it's probably not that silly - certainly no more silly than stations just named after streets without a prefix. It's only really silly because it's in the national fares system, though in that context it has a suffix.

Especially since there are now three just in Birmingham.

The red-brick one is the default, where present, unless stated otherwise. If it served one of the ex-Polys it'd be prefixed, e.g. "City University".

 

[BeijingDave]

The red-brick one is the default, where present, unless stated otherwise. If it served one of the ex-Polys it'd be prefixed, e.g. "City University".

I appreciate that, but I attended the nearby Warwick University.

A Malaysian student I know actually managed to accidentally deliver himself to University station having arrived at Birmingham International.

 

[WAO]

When it came to naming things, even the Almighty deferred to public opinion. See Genesis 2:19.

That's not quite the same as a poll, where a large minority may suggest something mischievous like Boaty McBoatface.

We'll have to wait on Scouse innovation, creativity and humour for a final verdict on what to call this station.

WAO

 

[Llandudno]

Those four, yes. As it is in the city centre and has Liverpool in the name it probably would make sense for Baltic to be a fifth.

Liverpool South Parkway has a Liverpool prefix as well, but I doubt an ‘All Liverpool Stations’ ticket would be valid unless a train stops there en-route to Lime Street?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I appreciate that, but I attended the nearby Warwick University.fo

There is a massive clue in the name that it isn't in Birmingham (I know it's in Coventry and not actually Warwick, which is a stupid* piece of naming! )

I would expect there are lots of "University" stations on lots of U- and S-Bahnen and the likes the world over, because if you're in the city looking at the departure board it's obvious which one it's referring to. The only real confusion it causes is in national journey planners and fares databases, in which locations it is called "University (Birmingham)".

* Yes, yes, I know, Edge Hill isn't in Ormskirk. But that was because it moved, not because they wilfully gave it that name knowing it was in the wrong place! I bet it does confuse people, though.

A Malaysian student I know actually managed to accidentally deliver himself to University station having arrived at Birmingham International.

Probably by having asked someone where "the university" was without specifying which one, so they defaulted to the red brick one named after the city he was in. I bet the station had little to do with it.

Liverpool South Parkway has a Liverpool prefix as well, but I doubt an ‘All Liverpool Stations’ ticket would be valid unless a train stops there en-route to Lime Street?

Yes, forgot about that one. No, it isn't. But it isn't in the city centre, whereas Baltic is.

It's in many ways moot because the majority of tickets sold on Merseyrail are zonal day tickets, Saveaways and zonal seasons. Anytime Day Singles/Returns and tickets from outside being used on Merseyrail for travel to the city centre will be in a tiny minority except a few changing at South Parkway/Ormskirk/Kirkby which are almost all locals who will just know, and because Liverpool Stns is further on than South Parkway that they won't be questioned. Zone C1, the city zone or sort of equivalent to TfL zone 1, actually does include South Parkway, let alone the new station which is well inside.

Given all this, putting Baltic in Liverpool Stns would not realistically cost any revenue, and so I think it's likely it will go there.

 

[vic-rijrode]

It's notable that in Newcastle the name "Central Station" is used for the Metro at Newcastle Central mainline station.

The Metro also has stations named Airport, Monument & University, the first 2 in Newcastle & the last in Sunderland. In fact there is no station with Newcastle in its name on the Metro, and only a single station called Sunderland.

 

[Mikey C]

The Metro also has stations named Airport, Monument & University, the first 2 in Newcastle & the last in Sunderland. In fact there is no station with Newcastle in its name on the Metro, and only a single station called Sunderland.

And even then only because the Metro uses the same NR station, platforms and tracks!

 

[Djgr]

There is a massive clue in the name that it isn't in Birmingham (I know it's in Coventry and not actually Warwick, which is a stupid* piece of naming! )

I would expect there are lots of "University" stations on lots of U- and S-Bahnen and the likes the world over, because if you're in the city looking at the departure board it's obvious which one it's referring to. The only real confusion it causes is in national journey planners and fares databases, in which locations it is called "University (Birmingham)".

* Yes, yes, I know, Edge Hill isn't in Ormskirk. But that was because it moved, not because they wilfully gave it that name knowing it was in the wrong place! I bet it does confuse people, though.



Probably by having asked someone where "the university" was without specifying which one, so they defaulted to the red brick one named after the city he was in. I bet the station had little to do with it.



Yes, forgot about that one. No, it isn't. But it isn't in the city centre, whereas Baltic is.

It's in many ways moot because the majority of tickets sold on Merseyrail are zonal day tickets, Saveaways and zonal seasons. Anytime Day Singles/Returns and tickets from outside being used on Merseyrail for travel to the city centre will be in a tiny minority except a few changing at South Parkway/Ormskirk/Kirkby which are almost all locals who will just know, and because Liverpool Stns is further on than South Parkway that they won't be questioned. Zone C1, the city zone or sort of equivalent to TfL zone 1, actually does include South Parkway, let alone the new station which is well inside.

Given all this, putting Baltic in Liverpool Stns would not realistically cost any revenue, and so I think it's likely it will go there.

I think the thinking is that the city centre will expand towards Liverpool Baltic and hence will be regarded as a city centre rather than a suburban station.

 

[Mordac]

There is also a University station at Coleraine on the Northern Ireland Railways network.