Southern Class 455 Withdrawal

[Islineclear3_1]

The unit on the Parsonage Road end was 806 last time I passed it.

Ah.... that may scupper my plans then. I come a long(ish) way...

 

[Southern Dvr]

Would appear the heavily graffitied unit has returned to Selhurst and is just about visible from the London Bridge lines.

 

[XCTurbostar]

One tidbit from the recently published Eversholt 'available stock' list - https://eversholtrail.co.uk/app/upl...able-for-lease-and-or-disposal-8-Apr-2022.pdf

The scheduled lease expiry date for the 455s now shown as 15 August 2022 rather than May in the last edition.

GTR keeping some around for a couple of months as standby? Or (more likely) the just need a period after the TT change to deactivate them and get them into storage?

I would be surprised if the lease has been extended just to move and de-activate them (the dft won’t want to pay for leased stock not being used!) I think it is more likely there are intentions to retain some (or all) given the increase in passenger numbers.

 

[Southern Dvr]

I would be surprised if the lease has been extended just to move and de-activate them (the dft won’t want to pay for leased stock not being used!) I think it is more likely there are intentions to retain some (or all) given the increase in passenger numbers.

Well that’s highly unlikely from what I’ve been hearing. Especially considering the farewell tour as well!! Wonder how many people would want refunds?!

Also, 73202, goes off the books in September.

 

[Class455]

Well that’s highly unlikely from what I’ve been hearing. Especially considering the farewell tour as well!! Wonder how many people would want refunds?!

Also, 73202, goes off the books in September.

I think the tour will happen regardless considering it’s now sold out! The Thameslink 319 farewell tour happened in early June only for them to carry on until the end of August.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Another reason it seems unlikely that the 455s will continue into the new timetable is that the crew diagrams have been agreed with the various parties, this includes the timings to set up and shut down the cabs. For example, a 377 timing allowance for cab set up is 2 mins but a 455 is 4 mins. So, if the crew diagrams have minimum breaks in them then the continued use of 455s will mean they don’t work which would throw out entire rosters etc.

 

[PGAT]

Another reason it seems unlikely that the 455s will continue into the new timetable is that the crew diagrams have been agreed with the various parties, this includes the timings to set up and shut down the cabs. For example, a 377 timing allowance for cab set up is 2 mins but a 455 is 4 mins. So, if the crew diagrams have minimum breaks in them then the continued use of 455s will mean they don’t work which would throw out entire rosters etc.

Well we never know until it happens. GTR haven’t published a new timetable yet so anything from RTT is probably subject to change.

 

[StephenHunter]

What is operating on Sanderstead to London Bridge at the moment?

 

[Intro298]

What is operating on Sanderstead to London Bridge at the moment?

The East Grinstead trains are always class 377’s.

 

[StephenHunter]

Thanks. Are the Anerley ones still 455s? I'm there for an event on 14 May and I intend to go to Victoria to see the farewell tour stock.

 

[Class455]

Another reason it seems unlikely that the 455s will continue into the new timetable is that the crew diagrams have been agreed with the various parties, this includes the timings to set up and shut down the cabs. For example, a 377 timing allowance for cab set up is 2 mins but a 455 is 4 mins. So, if the crew diagrams have minimum breaks in them then the continued use of 455s will mean they don’t work which would throw out entire rosters etc.

Whilst I agree with you that it’s unlikely the 455’s will be kept on past May, and I’ve certainly not heard any suggestion of this at work, there is still plenty of time for traincrew diagrams to be reissued (on an STP basis anyway) should 455’s be needed for a few more weeks.

 

[Snow1964]

One tidbit from the recently published Eversholt 'available stock' list - https://eversholtrail.co.uk/app/upl...able-for-lease-and-or-disposal-8-Apr-2022.pdf

The scheduled lease expiry date for the 455s now shown as 15 August 2022 rather than May in the last edition.

GTR keeping some around for a couple of months as standby? Or (more likely) the just need a period after the TT change to deactivate them and get them into storage?

There could be some phase out allowance.

In theory if lease ends on say 15th May, then the units should be ready to collect, cleaned up and in lease return condition with all the Operators equipment removed on that date. But in practice having bit of flexibility to use the stock for few extra weeks if needed is sensible

 

[StephenHunter]

Why are 455s still be offered for lease in any event after then? Who would take them?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Why are 455s still be offered for lease in any event after then? Who would take them?

Southern on an ad hoc basis as needed?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Why are 455s still be offered for lease in any event after then? Who would take them?

Well that’s why the leasing company has put them available to lease to see if anyone is interested in them!

 

[Dhansak]

Also, 73202, goes off the books in September.

O.T. I know, but have Southern decided they no longer need it? To be honest, I don't think it gets that much use. I suspect there will be no shortage of takers for it.

 

[PGAT]

Thanks. Are the Anerley ones still 455s? I'm there for an event on 14 May and I intend to go to Victoria to see the farewell tour stock.

London Bridge-East Croydon services calling at Anerley are sometimes class 377s and sometimes class 455s. Depends on your luck and timing.

 

[Dhansak]

I was able to catch four of them on the LBG - ECR service a couple of days ago; 5842 being one of the units on the service, operating with 5830. 5837 and 5823 were the other two

 

[Southern Dvr]

Well we never know until it happens. GTR haven’t published a new timetable yet so anything from RTT is probably subject to change.

Not used RTT, I scrutinised the driver diagrams for the new timetable!

 

[physics34]

O.T. I know, but have Southern decided they no longer need it? To be honest, I don't think it gets that much use. I suspect there will be no shortage of takers for it.

171s can relatively easily rescue 377s

 

[Jturner98]

Perhaps there’s a potential that SWR might take some to use if their 455s are running out of mileage. The SN 455s should be god on mileage as they have just had an overhaul. If they did take some they would very likely end up working on their own as I doubt they are compatible with the SWR 455s

 

[Southern Dvr]

Perhaps there’s a potential that SWR might take some to use if their 455s are running out of mileage. The SN 455s should be god on mileage as they have just had an overhaul. If they did take some they would very likely end up working on their own as I doubt they are compatible with the SWR 455s

They are not compatible and are highly unlikely to got you SWR or elsewhere. The running costs are too high. Hence why the 456 got ditched so quickly. DC traction equipment costs more to operate and right now the railways are in major cost cutting mode. Hence the 379 debacle that units are just sitting wasting because the leaseco wants too much for them. When the SN 455s go, regrettably, they’ll be going in the Newport shredder. Best we can hope is that one of them goes into preservation.

 

[Goldfish62]

They are not compatible and are highly unlikely to got you SWR or elsewhere. The running costs are too high. Hence why the 456 got ditched so quickly. DC traction equipment costs more to operate and right now the railways are in major cost cutting mode. Hence the 379 debacle that units are just sitting wasting because the leaseco wants too much for them. When the SN 455s go, regrettably, they’ll be going in the Newport shredder. Best we can hope is that one of them goes into preservation.

Why are they incompatible? The 456s ran with both DC and AC tractioned 455s at SWT/SWR.

Surely better to draft some in temporarily than instigate service cuts should SWR be short of stock once the 707s go and the 701s don't enter service.

ScotRail managed temporary arrangements very well with the 365s so I'm sure SWR can do likewise if needs be.

 

[Southern Dvr]

They are incompatible because of the modifications made to the Passcom systems. 456s had to have numerous alterations made to the PA and Passcoms.

Scotrail used the 365s in a very different climate, before covid and not after when the only priority is to save money.

 

[Railcar]

For the local elections in the London Borough of Sutton, the Conservatives in the Wallington South ward are "Campaigning to bring back our trains.". A recent leaflet through the door said Sutton Conservatives have been campaigning to encourage Southern and Thameslink to put more of the trains they used to run before the pandemic into the timetable. Before the Pandemic there were four trains per hour to Victoria during the day. At present there are two tph (377s rather than 455s). If the paths through Gloucester Road Junction and the Victoria Up Slows are still there, increaing the service would need extra trains. Unless there are spare 377s, if Southern decide to obey, maybe those 455s will be needed.

 

[Goldfish62]

They are incompatible because of the modifications made to the Passcom systems. 456s had to have numerous alterations made to the PA and Passcoms.

Scotrail used the 365s in a very different climate, before covid and not after when the only priority is to save money.

Oh well, we'll see I guess.

 

[JonathanH]

For the local elections in the London Borough of Sutton, the Conservatives in the Wallington South ward are "Campaigning to bring back our trains.". A recent leaflet through the door said Sutton Conservatives have been campaigning to encourage Southern and Thameslink to put more of the trains they used to run before the pandemic into the timetable. Before the Pandemic there were four trains per hour to Victoria during the day. At present there are two tph (377s rather than 455s). If the paths through Gloucester Road Junction and the Victoria Up Slows are still there, increaing the service would need extra trains. Unless there are spare 377s, if Southern decide to obey, maybe those 455s will be needed.

It is no good campaigning on the level of service on offer, because it is no longer about what timetable looks good on paper. The only way extra rolling stock is going to be allocated will be if there is overcrowding and the revenue picks up. Even then, as we know, it won't be 455s.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Has anyone else experienced a very jolty ride on a 455? I’ve been on a few where they leave the station at about 5mph until the driving carriage is off the platform they they jerk and start to accelerate. Not sure why the ride quality isn’t great

That’s the camshaft controller on the traction side doing that.

 

[357317]

I’d just like to confirm that, beyond the tour, there will be Class 455s in regular, passenger service on the 14th of May?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I’d just like to confirm that, beyond the tour, there will be Class 455s in regular, passenger service on the 14th of May?

Who knows? Except internal sources of course...