British heritage lines which are returning to normal, post Covid-19 restrictions.

[ChrisC]

Like so many others, I won't be making an effort to visit lines who insist on pre-booking only. In an era where we have to be selective over where we shop due to tightened food budgets, money just doesn't go too far right now so I am more than happy to be very selective over where I go on the (admittedly) rare occasion I want a heritage railway experience.

I remember recently looking at the Thursday of the upcoming SVR gala, which is tempting as I haven't been for a very long time, and the cost of a day rover was quite high. Yes it's always been expensive, but like I say when there's a need to carefully monitor non-essential trips then it's unfortunate for those lines who insist on pre-booking. I do almost everything on impulse, if the mood is on for doing something that day then that's what I do. I often do a trip with less than an hour's notice, that's how strong the impulse can be. A pain in the derriere when it comes to securing a good price on a decent accommodation, but that's just how it goes sometimes when you enjoy the liberating freedom of impulse!

Talking of, I may need to head out somewhere this afternoon, I'm feeling the desire to jump on a train and go exploring! 5 minutes ago, I had no such desire!

I’m exactly the same. Days out and holidays are often very much last minute decisions and where I go is often on impulse. That’s why I love exploring areas of the country using regional rail and bus rover tickets. I go to the railway station or bus station, often with an idea where I might be going and then end up somewhere completely different. When I was down in Gloucester last year using a Stagecoach 7 Day ticket, you had in another thread suggested a few places I may go and they were all good ideas, some of which I did take up. I remember one day going to the bus station in Gloucester intending to go get a bus to Cheltenham and then on to Cirencester and Cricklade only to end up at Symonds Yat, walking from English Bicknor on the 35 bus route. I just have to keep an eye on timetables to make sure that I don’t get stranded somewhere isolated and not be able to get back to my hotel.

That’s how I am with visiting preserved railways. I just want to turn up on an unplanned visit without pre booking and explore the line getting on and off where I want to on impulse.

 

[102 fan]

Pre booking on preserved railways and museums will disappear if takings drop. Both locations need as many visitors as they can get to remain viable, and putting obstacles in the way won't help.

 

[Dai Corner]

Those who like the more impulsive experience may wish to note that the Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway are offering 'walk-up' rover tickets on Sunday and Monday 1st and 2nd May. Discounts for Gwent residents.

COAL TRAIN WEEKEND | BLAENAVON'S HERITAGE RAILWAY

The South Wales Valleys were built on coal, and its railways (including ours) were no exception. Join us as we relive their heyday, with regular demonstration coal trains running alongside passenger services.

www.bhrailway.co.uk

SUNDAY 1ST AND
MONDAY 2ND MAY 2022​

EVENT INFORMATION

The South Wales Valleys were built on coal, and its railways (including ours) were no exception. Join us as we relive their heyday, with regular demonstration coal trains running alongside passenger services.

LOCOMOTIVES IN OPERATION

Hunslet Works No.1873 "Jessie" 0-6-0ST
Andrew Barclay Works No.1219 "Caledonian Works" 0-4-0ST
Hunslet Works No. 3839 "Wimblebury" 0-6-0ST

SERVICE INFORMATION

On our mainline, our recently refreshed rake of British Railway Mark ones will operate regular services between Furnace Sidings, Big Pit Halt, Whistle Inn Halt and Blaenavon High Level via Coed Avon. Demonstration coal trains will also operate between passenger services throughout the day, allowing a glimpse into our line's past.

For the full timetable, please see the icon below!

TICKET PRICES

Key: ADV (advance) | OTD (on the day)

Family (2 adults and 2 children) Rover: £30 (ADV) | £32.50 (OTD)
Adult Rover: £13 (ADV) | £14.50 (OTD)
Senior Rover: £12.50 (ADV) | £14 (OTD)
Child (4 +) Rover: £6.50 (ADV) | £7.50 (OTD)
Carers and Children (0 - 3): Free

Dogs also travel for free - just please keep them off the seats!

GWENT RESIDENTS DISCOUNT

To encourage our neighbours to connect with their heritage, we are offering all Gwent residents 25% off their tickets for this event when purchased in advance online. To redeem, simply enter the code GWENTCOAL2022 when checking out via our ticketing provider, TicketSource.

DISCOUNT TERMS AND CONDITIONS

• Applies to residents living in the local authorities of Torfaen, Blaenau Gwent, Monmouthshire, Newport and Caerphilly.
• Valid during the 2022 Coal Train Weekend event on Sunday 1st and Monday 2nd May 2022 only.
• Discount applies to tickets purchased in advance via our official ticketing provider TicketSource only and is not valid for on the day sales.
• Proof of address will be requested when checking in.
• All tickets sold subject to the general terms and conditions of the Pontypool and Blaenavon Railway Company (1983) Limited, operators of the Pontypool and Blaenavon Railway (marketed as Blaenavon's Heritage Railway) - find out more here.

 

[Techniquest]

That sounds like a good line to do, I went years ago and I don't remember there being quite as many stations available. It had 37s on the line at the time, although I forget which ones. 37219 I think was one, the other has escaped my memory. If I wasn't busy with a Sunday meeting, I'd be there. I might be able to swing by on the Monday, as I will finish work at 12, but I will see.

Thanks for the gen!

I’m exactly the same. Days out and holidays are often very much last minute decisions and where I go is often on impulse. That’s why I love exploring areas of the country using regional rail and bus rover tickets. I go to the railway station or bus station, often with an idea where I might be going and then end up somewhere completely different. When I was down in Gloucester last year using a Stagecoach 7 Day ticket, you had in another thread suggested a few places I may go and they were all good ideas, some of which I did take up. I remember one day going to the bus station in Gloucester intending to go get a bus to Cheltenham and then on to Cirencester and Cricklade only to end up at Symonds Yat, walking from English Bicknor on the 35 bus route. I just have to keep an eye on timetables to make sure that I don’t get stranded somewhere isolated and not be able to get back to my hotel.

That’s how I am with visiting preserved railways. I just want to turn up on an unplanned visit without pre booking and explore the line getting on and off where I want to on impulse.

Oh yes I remember making some suggestions, that must have been quite some time ago! I haven't been to Symonds Yat for a very long time, I went through the approximate area last year but not a proper visit.

Impulse is an amazing force, it can lead to some truly epic adventures. Not always of course, but I have too many stories to tell on that Many of my cycling adventures have happened as a result of impulse, planned to the maximum and then I'll end up going 'Ah, you know what I fancy going that way instead' and throw away literally hours of planning! I've had some amazing rides as a result, last week I ended up doing Colwall to Cheltenham via all sorts of routes and I had an amazing time as a result!

 

[david1212]

Picking up a few comments above charging more for a day rover than a single round trip with break of journey is reasonable. Similarly less for quietest services e.g. Festiniog offered an ' Early Bird ' for the first Porthmadog - Blaenau train.

Of course it depends on the line and stopping points but by choice I do not want to complete the round trip in the shortest time. Rather stop along the way to look around, buy lunch etc as well as if more than one train running experience at least two. I may well start out with a plan but do not want to be committed to it, unless it includes the last train that day!

 

[ChrisC]

Picking up a few comments above charging more for a day rover than a single round trip with break of journey is reasonable. Similarly less for quietest services e.g. Festiniog offered an ' Early Bird ' for the first Porthmadog - Blaenau train.

Of course it depends on the line and stopping points but by choice I do not want to complete the round trip in the shortest time. Rather stop along the way to look around, buy lunch etc as well as if more than one train running experience at least two. I may well start out with a plan but do not want to be committed to it, unless it includes the last train that day!

Absolutely agree. That’s exactly what I do and for that reason I will only be supporting those lines which sell rover tickets and allow getting on and off at intermediate stations. I suppose the preserved lines will work out for themselves whether they can make more money catering for families on pre booked trains making one full line return trip. Sadly for those of us who prefer a more leisurely day getting on and off and exploring, lines like the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, who can fill their trains to capacity with families travelling to Whitby, will probably go for that market rather than selling rover tickets. It does then rather make the small intermediate country stations somewhat redundant. I’m down in Devon next month and looked at visiting both the South Devon Railway at Totnes and the Paignton and Dartmouth Railway but neither seem to do day rover tickets, so I will probably not be visiting them. Perhaps neither of them would be concerned about losing the money I would be paying and don’t really value my type of visit.

 

[davetheguard]

It does then rather make the small intermediate country stations somewhat redundant.

It makes me wonder, at what point do they stop being heritage railways and start becoming theme park rides.

 

[paul1609]

Absolutely agree. That’s exactly what I do and for that reason I will only be supporting those lines which sell rover tickets and allow getting on and off at intermediate stations. I suppose the preserved lines will work out for themselves whether they can make more money catering for families on pre booked trains making one full line return trip. Sadly for those of us who prefer a more leisurely day getting on and off and exploring, lines like the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, who can fill their trains to capacity with families travelling to Whitby, will probably go for that market rather than selling rover tickets. It does then rather make the small intermediate country stations somewhat redundant. I’m down in Devon next month and looked at visiting both the South Devon Railway at Totnes and the Paignton and Dartmouth Railway but neither seem to do day rover tickets, so I will probably not be visiting them. Perhaps neither of the would be concerned about losing the money I would be contributing.

I think they most likely don't want to turn you away but the reality is that if their costs have skyrocketed by 100% so they are losing money hand over fist on the previous business model, a new model where you retain 90% of your business but reduce your costs by 35% is a better option. I should emphasise that I'm not necessarily an advocate of this but I do understand why it's attractive to railways in high density tourist areas.
My own railway hasn't adopted this model yet but we have had to cut services this year and we are very anxiously watching developments.

 

[LowLevel]

Not remotely interested in booking for a round trip. I am a railway enthusiast not a train enthusiast and I'm not interested in shelling out for a theme park style fixed train ride. I like to get off, look around, have a few pints in nice pubs and maybe even walk between two stations.

The Severn Valley got pilloried for sticking to that approach and swiftly reverted following some very heavy criticism on social media to the old way.

Places like the Great Central which are less reliant on tourists would never survive long term, short journeys and hop on/off are the attraction.

 

[paul1609]

Not sure quite how it would have worked for the Severn Valley when they have invested so heavily in the Engine House anyway

 

[John Luxton]

Absolutely agree. That’s exactly what I do and for that reason I will only be supporting those lines which sell rover tickets and allow getting on and off at intermediate stations. I suppose the preserved lines will work out for themselves whether they can make more money catering for families on pre booked trains making one full line return trip. Sadly for those of us who prefer a more leisurely day getting on and off and exploring, lines like the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, who can fill their trains to capacity with families travelling to Whitby, will probably go for that market rather than selling rover tickets. It does then rather make the small intermediate country stations somewhat redundant. I’m down in Devon next month and looked at visiting both the South Devon Railway at Totnes and the Paignton and Dartmouth Railway but neither seem to do day rover tickets, so I will probably not be visiting them. Perhaps neither of them would be concerned about losing the money I would be paying and don’t really value my type of visit.

South Devon Railway is mainly normal I went Monday but they ask what train you want to return on and it is printed on the ticket. You can travel from either end and Staverton Station is open and trains stop. However, rovers not shown on the fares list in the booking office. However, for what I had planned for the day I wasn't looking for a rover.

It makes me wonder, at what point do they stop being heritage railways and start becoming theme park rides.

This is a very good point particularly in the top left hand corner of Wales.

 

[Techniquest]

Is it just me who hears the Alton Towers theme music when thinking of a heritage railway as a theme park ride? I might be thinking of a specific music they had on a TV ad many years back, admittedly, I would have to search YouTube to find it!

*off goes Tech to YouTube*

EDIT: Yes it is the Alton Towers theme music, this one is a much slower pace than I thought it was. Jump in at 01:39 for the best bit that I was definitely thinking of!

 

[david1212]

Absolutely agree. That’s exactly what I do and for that reason I will only be supporting those lines which sell rover tickets and allow getting on and off at intermediate stations. I suppose the preserved lines will work out for themselves whether they can make more money catering for families on pre booked trains making one full line return trip. Sadly for those of us who prefer a more leisurely day getting on and off and exploring, lines like the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, who can fill their trains to capacity with families travelling to Whitby, will probably go for that market rather than selling rover tickets. It does then rather make the small intermediate country stations somewhat redundant. I’m down in Devon next month and looked at visiting both the South Devon Railway at Totnes and the Paignton and Dartmouth Railway but neither seem to do day rover tickets, so I will probably not be visiting them. Perhaps neither of them would be concerned about losing the money I would be paying and don’t really value my type of visit.

Given the cost though at least on the longer lines do the majority of families just want a return trip in the shortest time or to stop at one end / furthest significant station from joining point for a while so dropping back at least one train ? Children get bored without a change while who ever is paying wants to get best value and ideally fill much of the day not go off then pay again somewhere else to keep the group occupied.

 

[30907]

Given the cost though at least on the longer lines do the majority of families just want a return trip in the shortest time or to stop at one end / furthest significant station from joining point for a while so dropping back at least one train ? Children get bored without a change while who ever is paying wants to get best value and ideally fill much of the day not go off then pay again somewhere else to keep the group occupied.

Depends on the length. The NYMR by cunning timetabling give you several hours in Whitby/Pickering, so a reasonably long day.

OTOH, a good half of KWVR passengers IME want a straight return trip, maybe with a stop off in Haworth, and those who buy day rovers don't always do more than that plus Rail Story at Ingrow....

 

[yorksrob]

The Great Central Railway seems to be just like old times.

Rock up unannounced at the ticket office, by an all day rover and hop on and off at leisure. Same for the East Lancs last year.

Good on them.

 

[xotGD]

Depends on the length. The NYMR by cunning timetabling give you several hours in Whitby/Pickering, so a reasonably long day.

OTOH, a good half of KWVR passengers IME want a straight return trip, maybe with a stop off in Haworth, and those who buy day rovers don't always do more than that plus Rail Story at Ingrow....

No maybe, in my experience just about every visitor to the KWVR wants to visit Haworth. I suspect most starting from the Keighley end only go to Oxenhope and back because it is the same price as a return from Keighley to Haworth.

A lot of those with day rovers seem content to sit in the buffer car all day knocking back the ale!

 

[30907]

No maybe, in my experience just about every visitor to the KWVR wants to visit Haworth.

Less so from Oxenhope or indeed Haworth - some time since I've been at Keighley...

A lot of those with day rovers seem content to sit in the buffer car all day knocking back the ale!

Indeed!

 

[John Luxton]

Today I was travelling back home from Cornwall / Devon to Merseyside. I avoid the M5/6 through the Midlands and always head up the Wye Valley.

However, I made a slight deviation via Lydney to Norchard knowing that the Dean Forest Railway shop keeps keep the full selection of the locally produced Lightmoor Press books in stock. I was after the new Ocean Coal Company book and thought buying my copy there would save some money on P&P plus put some money into the till of the DFR.

DFR are still an "Experiences" railway managed by that Fare Harbour system with all trains starting from Norchard. Now to be fair I did take a trip last summer - but I was just glad of a ride.

However I had said this year I wouldn't travel on railways that continue to offer experiences -- but as I was going for the book I would have taken the ride.

Unfortunately I ended up running late and missed the first afternoon train by a quarter of an hour. I didn't want to wait until the later train as I would get home too quickly.

Now in normal circumstances if I had just missed the train I would have driven on to the next station and picked it up there for a round trip - but obviously that wasn't an option.

Thus they lost a fare which they could have had.

My point is I am sure there are many lines were others who had missed a train from one station might drive to another for a trip. Experiences limit this option.

Anyway I got my book but apart from a family with a toddler looking at toys the shop was empty bar me.

Despite the lack of customers I was served by a firmly masked assistant in a shop still displaying arrows on the floor!

DFR is clearly still not over Covid yet!!!

Come one get your act together and get back to normal!

I hope when I return for a few days holiday in the area in summer all this nonsense has ended by then!

 

[Dai Corner]

Today I was travelling back home from Cornwall / Devon to Merseyside. I avoid the M5/6 through the Midlands and always head up the Wye Valley.

However, I made a slight deviation via Lydney to Norchard knowing that the Dean Forest Railway shop keeps keep the full selection of the locally produced Lightmoor Press books in stock. I was after the new Ocean Coal Company book and thought buying my copy there would save some money on P&P plus put some money into the till of the DFR.

DFR are still an "Experiences" railway managed by that Fare Harbour system with all trains starting from Norchard. Now to be fair I did take a trip last summer - but I was just glad of a ride.

However I had said this year I wouldn't travel on railways that continue to offer experiences -- but as I was going for the book I would have taken the ride.

Unfortunately I ended up running late and missed the first afternoon train by a quarter of an hour. I didn't want to wait until the later train as I would get home too quickly.

Now in normal circumstances if I had just missed the train I would have driven on to the next station and picked it up there for a round trip - but obviously that wasn't an option.

Thus they lost a fare which they could have had.

My point is I am sure there are many lines were others who had missed a train from one station might drive to another for a trip. Experiences limit this option.

Anyway I got my book but apart from a family with a toddler looking at toys the shop was empty bar me.

Despite the lack of customers I was served by a firmly masked assistant in a shop still displaying arrows on the floor!

DFR is clearly still not over Covid yet!!!

Come one get your act together and get back to normal!

I hope when I return for a few days holiday in the area in summer all this nonsense has ended by then!

If you'd travelled last weekend you could have gone to their DMU Gala which I think was rover tickets and jump on and off as you wished. Sadly, I didn't hear about it in time. I know DMUs aren't everybody's cup of tea.

 

[Techniquest]

The arrows on the floor thing, I am surprised that is still a thing. I don't recall seeing a shop with that still going on in recent memory, all the big shops banished them a long time ago. Good grief am I seriously getting nostalgia for that time period?!

Can't say I blame them for the masks though. It's just not worth it right now for a lot of us to not wear them.

Good to hear the shop had what you wanted though!

 

[John Luxton]

If you'd travelled last weekend you could have gone to their DMU Gala which I think was rover tickets and jump on and off as you wished. Sadly, I didn't hear about it in time. I know DMUs aren't everybody's cup of tea.

I will travel on anything that runs on rails motive power not an issue steam / diesel / electric even a horse! Not biased!

The arrows on the floor thing, I am surprised that is still a thing. I don't recall seeing a shop with that still going on in recent memory, all the big shops banished them a long time ago. Good grief am I seriously getting nostalgia for that time period?!

Can't say I blame them for the masks though. It's just not worth it right now for a lot of us to not wear them.

Good to hear the shop had what you wanted though!

Having just returned from the west country and done a fair bit of rail travel with GWR and also at South Devon Railway and Launceston Steam Railway - hardly seen a mask.

DFR does have a good shop compared to some lines, including those odd titles one doesn't often seen promoted. Bought a great book on the making of the Titfield Thunderbolt from them last summer a title I didn't know existed.

 

[Techniquest]

I will be here all night if we start talking about masks! So I won't, except to say you have reminded me some of my train ones are getting old and will soon need to be replaced. I might go and do some online shopping actually...

 

[43096]

I will be here all night if we start talking about masks! So I won't, except to say you have reminded me some of my train ones are getting old and will soon need to be replaced. I might go and do some online shopping actually...

Presuming that these masks are not FFP2/3 standard and are the cloth ones, why are you considering replacing them? They have almost no impact on you either catching or transmitting the virus.

 

[nanstallon]

It makes me wonder, at what point do they stop being heritage railways and start becoming theme park rides.

I agree entirely - the atmosphere is completely different when everyone is on a fixed itinerary. When the pandemic (and consequent lockdown) was at its worst, there was probably no other way to run a heritage line, and I respected the lines that at least did what they could rather than throw the towel in, like so many did. But now, I don't think that is a good model to make permanent.

Further, if I were working for HMRC, I'd be looking at VAT being payable on 'experience' fares - it cannot be argued that these are providing public transport.

 

[John Luxton]

Further, if I were working for HMRC, I'd be looking at VAT being payable on 'experience' fares - it cannot be argued that these are providing public transport.

Perhaps HMRC have not really become aware of the experiences?

One wonders if enough people who object to 'experiences' wrote to the HMRC to complain that some lines are not charging VAT on an offering that requires VAT that HMRC would act?

Those lines concerned might then have to either increase fares by 20% (which will put punters off) or go back to operating a real service which is not subject to VAT.

Perhaps the taxman could ride to our rescue with a little encouragement?

 

[bramling]

I will travel on anything that runs on rails motive power not an issue steam / diesel / electric even a horse! Not biased!


Having just returned from the west country and done a fair bit of rail travel with GWR and also at South Devon Railway and Launceston Steam Railway - hardly seen a mask.

DFR does have a good shop compared to some lines, including those odd titles one doesn't often seen promoted. Bought a great book on the making of the Titfield Thunderbolt from them last summer a title I didn't know existed.

We covered three railways in Nth Lincolnshire over the weekend and barely saw a single mask, indeed not just on railways but anywhere else. Sadly, I expect on return to Hertfordshire tomorrow I will see my fair share in Sainsbury’s…

Perhaps HMRC have not really become aware of the experiences?

One wonders if enough people who object to 'experiences' wrote to the HMRC to complain that some lines are not charging VAT on an offering that requires VAT that HMRC would act?

Those lines concerned might then have to either increase fares by 20% (which will put punters off) or go back to operating a real service which is not subject to VAT.

Perhaps the taxman could ride to our rescue with a little encouragement?

Worth a try. Any attempt to get rid of this dastardly pre-booking of an “experience” is completely fair game IMO.

 

[Falcon1200]

DFR are still an "Experiences" railway managed by that Fare Harbour system with all trains starting from Norchard.

If you'd travelled last weekend you could have gone to their DMU Gala which I think was rover tickets and jump on and off as you wished.

So the DFR operates a Covid-restricted service some days and a normal service on others ? What a strange way of doing things, especially considering that many other lines, as mentioned above, have returned to normal and are benefitting from it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps HMRC have not really become aware of the experiences?

One wonders if enough people who object to 'experiences' wrote to the HMRC to complain that some lines are not charging VAT on an offering that requires VAT that HMRC would act?

Those lines concerned might then have to either increase fares by 20% (which will put punters off) or go back to operating a real service which is not subject to VAT.

Perhaps the taxman could ride to our rescue with a little encouragement?

Is VAT chargeable on railtours? These are the exact same thing.

 

[NorthWestRover]

Ha ha, freedom lovers reporting people to the HMRC. You couldn't make it up.

 

[Dai Corner]

So the DFR operates a Covid-restricted service some days and a normal service on others ? What a strange way of doing things, especially considering that many other lines, as mentioned above, have returned to normal and are benefitting from it.

A DMU gala is very much aimed at the enthusiast rather than the general tourist market so perhaps they felt a normal service rather than a pre-booked, fixed itinerary one was appropriate. I have no idea how well they did, not how well they do on other days.

Ha ha, freedom lovers reporting people to the HMRC. You couldn't make it up.

Cranks price the majority of passengers off, have the railway run the way they like and see their fares soar to meet the costs or the railway go bust and disappear.

Ha ha, freedom lovers reporting people to the HMRC. You couldn't make it up.

Cranks price the majority of passengers off, have the railway run the way they like and see their fares soar to meet the costs or the railway go bust and disappear.