Longest DMU consists ever in regular service

[6Gman]

I think they were limited to 6 power cars in one formation?

Yes, hence my point about them having to be D1 units. Each unit was a motor + a trailer. Lash six together and you've got a 12 car set for a Saturday morning Manchester-Llandudno!

 

[mmh]

You get some fairly long formations on the Uckfields, though I'm not quite sure what the maximum is - 9x23m?

10x23m.

 

[MadMac]

Whats these then?
View attachment 114456

View attachment 114455

Post subsequently edited. I wasn’t expecting them there. In any event, you could only have six power cars in any formation. I believe these did run with a Met-Camm power twin on occasion.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

I believe so, so no longer possible now HS2 has severed that (I think).

Still possible to use this link. The trains ran Euston, Acton Main Line, West Ealing, Greenford branch, South Ruislip and to Birmingham via High Wycombe. They didn’t use the section of line from Greenford to Old Oak Common which has been severed by the HS2 work, hence why Chiltern run a daily Parliamentary service to West Ealing.

 

[Magdalia]

In summer 1987 on Friday evenings the 2035 Birmingham-Cambridge was booked 12 car dmu comprising 3*Tyseley 4 car suburban units. Next morning one of the 4 cars did 0603 Cambridge-Birmingham while the other 2 worked 0804 Cambridge-Yarmouth and 1038 Yarmouth-Birmingham.

 

[Beebman]

Were there ever any 8 car Turbos (3+3+2) or even 7 (3+2+2) out of Paddington?

For a while there was definitely a 7-car formation on a late afternoon service into Paddington, I remember seeing it once at Slough and it did have passengers on, it wasn't ECS. I think it was sometime in the mid 2000s and ISTR it was scheduled to split on arrival to form 2 different early peak services. Also the Henley branch used to have 7-car shuttles at Regatta time, they reversed at Twyford in platform 4 (the Up Relief) rather than in bay platform 5.

 

[david1212]

Did the 6 car class 124 TransPennine units ever work as 12 car? The reason I ask is that a photo on page 94 of the 1975 Ian Allen combined volume appears to show a 6 car set with part of the roof of a 7th car just visible. It's not possible to determine what the extra car is though.

They frequently just multiplied one up with any blue square DMU. Could have even been a 2 car.

A six car set had eight engines as two non-driving vehicles had engines. They were, contrary to my initrial thought, fitted with jumpers, so you could put another two powered “Blue Square“ cars on.

Not that I'm aware of. I don't think there were enough vehicles to do so.

I can not recall where but do recall reading when these sets were nearing the end of their working lives and the 123 Swindon units were in the same pool that there were many odd combinations to form a working set with adequate power including power cars from other than classes 123 and 124 added. A 6 car set with an extra power car each end would only be 8 though.

 

[hexagon789]

I can not recall where but do recall reading when these sets were nearing the end of their working lives and the 123 Swindon units were in the same pool that there were many odd combinations to form a working set with adequate power including power cars from other than classes 123 and 124 added. A 6 car set with an extra power car each end would only be 8 though.

By the time the 123/124 were mixed the TP 124 sets were down to 4-car formations and were usually formed thus when in mixed 123/124 sets.

 

[MadMac]

I can not recall where but do recall reading when these sets were nearing the end of their working lives and the 123 Swindon units were in the same pool that there were many odd combinations to form a working set with adequate power including power cars from other than classes 123 and 124 added. A 6 car set with an extra power car each end would only be 8 though.

In all likelihood, the Railcar site.

 

[Ken H]

By the time the 123/124 were mixed the TP 124 sets were down to 4-car formations and were usually formed thus when in mixed 123/124 sets.

I remember them as 6 car sets. I even used the buffet in one. Think it was half buffet half seating

 

[Magdalia]

By the time the 123/124 were mixed the TP 124 sets were down to 4-car formations and were usually formed thus when in mixed 123/124 sets.

Furthermore, these 4 car units had 3 motor cars and only one trailer. Two units joined together would have reached the maximum 6 motor cars with a total of 8 cars in the formation.

The only way to get a 12 car formation was with units that allowed 6 trailers with 6 motors.

 

[hexagon789]

Furthermore, these 4 car units had 3 motor cars and only one trailer. Two units joined together would have reached the maximum 6 motor cars with a total of 8 cars in the formation.

The only way to get a 12 car formation was with units that allowed 6 trailers with 6 motors.

In 1981 they started removing engines from the MBSK to address the overpowering issue.

 

[GS250]

Not in any sense a regular working, but back in 1986 Hertfordshire Railtours and the SEG took a 14-coach Hastings unit formation from Victoria to Carlisle! Out via the Settle & Carlisle, returning over Shap. The train was formed of units 1032, 1011 (as 6-cars) plus the motor cars of 1001 back-to-back to give some extra power.

That must have created something of a racket. Would have given a total of 3000hp I believe?

 

[furnessvale]

Also includes DEMU's too.

Can think of 2x4 car units that ran on the Marylebone peak hour services. Also...I believe there are 3x3 car formations that run from Waterloo to Exeter on some busier days. 2x5 Hastings units possibly the longest?

Was there ever anything over over 10?

I once witnessed a 3x3 car BRCW (with passengers) banking a stalled steam hauled freight to the north out of the old platform one at Preston.

Other, longer, workings in the area were the return serviced two car sets from Newton Heath to Preston to be split there to work the local services during the day. I suppose every engine and axle light illuminated on the driver's panel would be the limit. Not sure how many units that equates to.

 

[hexagon789]

That must have created something of a racket. Would have given a total of 3000hp I believe?

3,000bhp from the engines, yes. The power-at-rail of a 201 power car is 398hp though - so 2,388 continuously at rail for the whole train to actually move it. A fair chunk more than a 45, 47 or 50...

 

[Taunton]

Post subsequently edited. I wasn’t expecting them there. In any event, you could only have six power cars in any formation. I believe these did run with a Met-Camm power twin on occasion.

Whenever I saw this it was as a substitute for a Trans-Pennine driving car at one end. It seems that unlike the later Derby-built 4-car suburban units the Trans-Pennines had normal mechanical gearboxes, and not the automatic hydraulic ones of the Derby units - which rather seemed to invalidate the trial 6-car formation of the latter used for timing tests, as they had the same 230hp Albion engines, before the Trans-Pennine units were delivered.

 

[hexagon789]

Whenever I saw this it was as a substitute for a Trans-Pennine driving car at one end. It seems that unlike the later Derby-built 4-car suburban units the Trans-Pennines had normal mechanical gearboxes, and not the automatic hydraulic ones of the Derby units - which rather seemed to invalidate the trial 6-car formation of the latter used for timing tests, as they had the same 230hp Albion engines, before the Trans-Pennine units were delivered.

The TPs had standard 4-speed pre-selector epicyclic gearboxes. I presume you mean the Derby 4-car Hydraulic suburban units - TOPS Class 127/"Bed-Pan" units? These had a three-stage hydraulic transmission which complemented their Rolls-Royce 238bhp engines.

 

[Taunton]

The TPs had standard 4-speed pre-selector epicyclic gearboxes. I presume you mean the Derby 4-car Hydraulic suburban units - TOPS Class 127/"Bed-Pan" units? These had a three-stage hydraulic transmission which complemented their Rolls-Royce 238bhp engines.

Actually it was the other Derby build used for the trials, the "Marylebone" Class 115 units, some of which ran Liverpool-Manchester as well, which had the same engines as the Trans-Pennines, and were lashed up for the trial into a similar formation, but had auto hydraulic gearboxes.

 

[hexagon789]

Actually it was the other Derby build used for the trials, the "Marylebone" Class 115 units, some of which ran Liverpool-Manchester as well, which had the same engines as the Trans-Pennines, and were lashed up for the trial into a similar formation, but had auto hydraulic gearboxes.

The 115s had mechanical transmission. Unless you mean they were specially fitted for the trial?

I remember them as 6 car sets. I even used the buffet in one. Think it was half buffet half seating

The buffet car was pretty much the same as on the 79xxx 1956 build Swindon InterCity cars, three first class compartments and the rest of the vehicle was unclassified seats for eating plus the buffet/kitchen. I believe the kitchen was better equipped on the 124s having a griddle for a start. There were also only 8 seats in the buffet against 12 in the 79xxx TFKRB vehicles.

 

[Ken H]

The 115s had mechanical transmission. Unless you mean they were specially fitted for the trial?


The buffet car was pretty much the same as on the 79xxx 1956 build Swindon InterCity cars, three first class compartments and the rest of the vehicle was unclassified seats for eating plus the buffet/kitchen. I believe the kitchen was better equipped on the 124s having a griddle for a start. There were also only 8 seats in the buffet against 12 in the 79xxx TFKRB vehicles.

found this*- But the 6 car set had quite a lot of 1st class. 2 halves of the Motor open brakes, and the buffet (21*2) + 18 = 60

* https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-124/diagrams-and-design-codes

 

[hexagon789]

found this*- But the 6 car set had quite a lot of 1st class. 2 halves of the Motor open brakes, and the buffet (21*2) + 18 = 60

* https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-124/diagrams-and-design-codes
View attachment 114538

A full 6-car had 60 First and 232 Second (plus 8 seats in the buffet). Still compares favourably with the 79xxx where the trailers were all first class only, but such was one - the demand for First Class travel, two the premise of the sets, a lot of the people they were designed to attract were businessmen.

 

[Strathclyder]

Triple Voyagers have happened a few times, I think a 15 car set has run on the WCML in times of disruption or engineering from a vague recollection. I think 180's might have also managed a trio at some point too.

You've probably got the answer there. 15 car Voyager formations (3 x 5) were used on the Birmingham-Euston via the Chiltern Line "blockade busters" a number of years ago. This is probably the longest UK passenger train in recent history other than the Cally, let alone D(E)MU.

Another vid of a triple Voyager formation on such duties, this time at Banbury in May 2012:

@RichJF mentioned the Hastings DMUs operating as 12-car sets, here is visual proof of it - copyright of Martin Loader - taken (March 1986) in the run-up of the line switching over to electric traction.

1012 & 1004 Stonegate 15 March 1986

www.hondawanderer.com

 

[hexagon789]

Another vid of a triple Voyager formation on such duties, this time at Banbury in May 2012:

@RichJF mentioned the Hastings DMUs operating as 12-car sets, here is visual proof of it - copyright of Martin Loader - taken (March 1986) in the run-up of the line switching over to electric traction.

1012 & 1004 Stonegate 15 March 1986

www.hondawanderer.com

12 was usual for the Hastings I thought, as the leading set was split en route to go forward as a semi-fast with the rear set following as an all stations stopper.

 

[Ken H]

A full 6-car had 60 First and 232 Second (plus 8 seats in the buffet). Still compares favourably with the 79xxx where the trailers were all first class only, but such was one - the demand for First Class travel, two the premise of the sets, a lot of the people they were designed to attract were businessmen.

different times maybe.

 

[Strathclyder]

12 was usual for the Hastings I thought, as the leading set was split en route to go forward as a semi-fast with the rear set following as an all stations stopper.

Aye, I think it was standard practice up until the line was electrified. They were still by some margin the longest regularly scheduled D(E)MU workings of their time though.

 

[Rick1984]

Not the longest consist, but would the 9-car class 222 be the longest single DMU?

 

[hexagon789]

Not the longest consist, but would the 9-car class 222 be the longest single DMU?

Yes, I think the next longest were the WR 8-car Pullman Diesel Sets.

 

[Taunton]

A full 6-car had 60 First and 232 Second (plus 8 seats in the buffet). Still compares favourably with the 79xxx where the trailers were all first class only, but such was one - the demand for First Class travel, two the premise of the sets, a lot of the people they were designed to attract were businessmen.

Well there may have been a lot of first class seats in the 79xxx sets, but that doesn't necessarily mean there was a lot of demand. I never knew them on Glasgow-Edinburgh, but their replacements, the 2x27 push-pull sets, by the early 1970s had one full first class coach out of six (5.5 actually), and the normal load in it was - zero. About the only exception was Scotrail management staff travelling to/fro on free passes. In the Scottish business world it was considered ludicrously spendthrift to go first class. I honestly wonder how it escaped Beeching that, on internal Scottish trains at least, the first class provision normally ran back and forth as empty stock with zero revenue. Possibly those who had to present the figures had those passes ...

 

[matchmaker]

The TPs had standard 4-speed pre-selector epicyclic gearboxes. I presume you mean the Derby 4-car Hydraulic suburban units - TOPS Class 127/"Bed-Pan" units? These had a three-stage hydraulic transmission which complemented their Rolls-Royce 238bhp engines.

<pedant alert> Not preselector gearboxes, semi-automatic as in Leyland/AEC buses of the period </pedant alert>

 

[randyrippley]

Given that the WR had an occasional habit of using their cross-country sets to tow one or two non-corridor coaches, I wonder if the summer weekend services ever stretched to 10 or 11 - 3x3 car sets plus one or two towed? I've ridden on them out of Weymouth but can't remember the size of the whole train