Haymarket to Dalmeny electrification

[roadierway77]

anyone know if the Almond chord is back on the agenda? If so I do hope passive provision is being made for the junction in the electrification scheme. Would be a shame to have to tear bits of it down again.

The latest news on the Almond chord is that an outline business case was planned to be submitted in December 2020, according to Network Rail's Enhancements Delivery Plan Scotland, which was published in September 2020. I would thus imagine provision will be made for the chord.

 

[XAM2175]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Forth Bridge is never wired as it's a short distance between North Queensferry and Dalmeny and battery power can be used, and it would save trying to work around its listed and world heritage status

There's no major impediment to continuous electrification across the bridge.

 

[Falcon1200]

Why you need them ...

Indeed ! I never knew the tripwires at any of the three Scottish airports to be activated by an aircraft; But occasionally they did fail due to high winds or equipment defects.

 

[AM9]

My thoughts exactly. I couldn't be bothered checking late last night, but in fact the runway's Aiming Point Markings are about 950 metres from the railway line.

Here's the view from Lennymuir Bridge looking across the valley on Google Streetview. There are already posts either side of the track of about the same height as the approach lighting masts. Low profile OLE would be a metre or so above those so it doesn't look like much of an issue.

 

[vic-rijrode]

Why you need them ...

Damn those RyanAir cheap flights!

 

[73128]

There's no major impediment to continuous electrification across the bridge.

and if you want to also electrify heavy freight trains then you really need continuous wiring.

 

[edwin_m]

I suspect someone in Transport Scotland is working on getting the bridge done, but there are probably quite a few hoops to jump through to get the heritage people to agree it.

 

[InOban]

Isn't there a weight limit on freight trains?

 

[D6130]

Isn't there a weight limit on freight trains?

Correct....the heavy freight trains are routed via Stirling and Perth. Only the returning empties cross the Tay and Forth Bridges.

 

[swt_passenger]

I suspect someone in Transport Scotland is working on getting the bridge done, but there are probably quite a few hoops to jump through to get the heritage people to agree it.

I thought in a different thread it was found the grade A and world heritage site listings already covered the possibility of wiring?

This is the thread anyway, to avoid duplication, it started out because the press office dropped the ball on the subject:

Incorrect press statement - the Forth Bridge can have overhead electric lines installed

I thought that it was technically possible, but I am quoting the very last sentence from a Network Rail press release which is regarding the Vivarail battery train crossing the Forth Bridge, which they also state is "the first emission-free fully-electric train to cross the iconic Forth Bridge"...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[jopsuk]

the weight limit for freight was the primary justification for the Alloa reopening- to route the coal trains to Longannet that way using larger, heavier, more modern wagons.
(good thing the passenger service was a success, given the status of the power station now!)

 

[edwin_m]

I thought in a different thread it was found the grade A and world heritage site listings already covered the possibility of wiring?

Probably so, but I imagine someone would need to see and approve the details of how it was going to be done, to minimise the visual impact and avoid unnnecessary changes to the historic structure.

 

[D6130]

Probably so, but I imagine someone would need to see and approve the details of how it was going to be done, to minimise the visual impact and avoid unnnecessary changes to the historic structure.

This happened with Durham Viaduct and the Royal Border Bridge at Berwick when the ECML was electrified in the early 1990s....and a satisfactory way was found to minimise the visual impact on these listed structures. I would imagine that the plans for the Forth Bridge would have to be scrutinised by Scottish Heritage.

 

[hwl]

This happened with Durham Viaduct and the Royal Border Bridge at Berwick when the ECML was electrified in the early 1990s....and a satisfactory way was found to minimise the visual impact on these listed structures. I would imagine that the plans for the Forth Bridge would have to be scrutinised by Scottish Heritage.

and UNESCO

 

[Falcon1200]

This happened with Durham Viaduct and the Royal Border Bridge at Berwick when the ECML was electrified in the early 1990s....and a satisfactory way was found to minimise the visual impact on these listed structures.

Given the differing construction of most of the Forth Bridge from those two viaducts, I'm not sure that OLE would have a great visual impact amongst the thousands of tons of red steel which form it ! And the approach viaducts could of course be treated the same way as Durham and Berwick.

 

[swt_passenger]

Given the differing construction of most of the Forth Bridge from those two viaducts, I'm not sure that OLE would have a great visual impact amongst the thousands of tons of red steel which form it ! And the approach viaducts could of course be treated the same way as Durham and Berwick.

That’s exactly what is said in the UNESCO nomination document, the relevant paragraph is within the very last post in the other recent thread that I linked to in post #40..

 

[Put Kettle On]

Why all the fixation on the Forth Bridge ? .

The thread is titled Haymarket to Dalmeny, & as such does not cover the crossing of the bridge .

If the title covered Dalmeny to Inverkeithing, then that would then obviously cover electrification or otherwise of the bridge .

Electrifying from Haymarket & stopping the wires at Dalmeny should be relatively straightforward .

No doubt others will counter that to cover Dalmeny, the wires would need to extend beyond the station onto the bridge, but this would be on the open approaches, & as such should present no difficulty .

 

[najaB]

Why all the fixation on the Forth Bridge ? .

The thread is titled Haymarket to Dalmeny, & as such does not cover the crossing of the bridge .

The latter is the reason for the former - the electrification is only going as far as Dalmeny at present precisely because the Forth Bridge is an impediment to continuing all the way around the circle.

 

[FS-2-11]

Why all the fixation on the Forth Bridge ? .

The thread is titled Haymarket to Dalmeny, & as such does not cover the crossing of the bridge .

If the title covered Dalmeny to Inverkeithing, then that would then obviously cover electrification or otherwise of the bridge .

Electrifying from Haymarket & stopping the wires at Dalmeny should be relatively straightforward .

No doubt others will counter that to cover Dalmeny, the wires would need to extend beyond the station onto the bridge, but this would be on the open approaches, & as such should present no difficulty .

Maybe only to the loops. Electrifying the Dalmeny-Winchburgh Jn line in tandem with that would provide a useful diversion route for EMUs whenever Winchburgh Tunnel floods.

 

[gingertom]

Maybe only to the loops. Electrifying the Dalmeny-Winchburgh Jn line in tandem with that would provide a useful diversion route for EMUs whenever Winchburgh Tunnel floods.

I don't think this useful short diversion with get wired until the Almond chord gets built, if it ever does. I think Haymarket-Dalmeny wiring is to ensure BEMUs have sufficient charge in the batteries to safely get to where they are going.

 

[InOban]

Maybe only to the loops. Electrifying the Dalmeny-Winchburgh Jn line in tandem with that would provide a useful diversion route for EMUs whenever Winchburgh Tunnel floods.

Or the points fail at Newbridge. Again.

 

[najaB]

Or the points fail at Newbridge. Again.

But surely replacing the points at Newbridge would be more cost effective overall?

 

[snowball]

This is already under discussion in another thread, but as this specific thread already exists, it seems worthwhile to bump it. According to this press release, work is about to start on Haymarket to Dalmeny.

Green light for £55m Scottish Government investment in decarbonisation | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

The first phase of a rail decarbonisation scheme to electrify the Fife route has been approved to move to construction phase.


The scheme has been developed by Transport Scotland and Network Rail and will commence with electrification of the section between Haymarket and Dalmeny (south of the Forth Bridge).


Construction work is expected to get underway on the estimated £55 million scheme in June 2022 and is due to be completed by December 2024. It forms part of a rolling programme that is expected to see electrification extended to Dundee and Aberdeen.

...

“The development work also being progressed on Borders electrification and on procuring new rolling stock shows we are fully focussed on rail decarbonisation. Our commitment is securing jobs in the rail design and delivery sector, as well as providing a stream of work for the supply chain.”

“The government has set an ambitious target to decarbonise our railway and projects such as the electrification of the Fife Circle – starting with the line connecting Fife to Edinburgh, will be key to delivering on that commitment.
“We look forward to delivering further investment in Scotland’s Railway and significantly improving the quality of service for the communities it serves. This is one of a number of projects that will create an even greener, cleaner, and more reliable railway for Scotland.’’
The overall Fife electrification scheme has recently been given approval for partial electrification, using battery electric multiple units, and further development work is to be undertaken to support this. The project is part of the plan to decarbonise the railway network by 2035.
The project is being taken forward in the face of the significant financial challenges, and in light of uncertain future demand.
Further development work is being undertaken to progress the business cases for other decarbonisation schemes:
Borders Decarbonisation
The project to decarbonisation the Borders Line has also taken a step forward, with approval given to progress the next design phase of the scheme to deliver partial electrification of the route using battery electric multiple units.
Rolling stock procurement
Approval has also been given hold a procurement competition to identify a preferred manufacturer and financier for new suburban trains to operate decarbonised rail passenger services on the routes covered by East Kilbride, Fife and Borders routes, replacing 42 Class 156 trains and to replace the 55 Class 318 and 320 trains operating in the Strathclyde area.

---

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Yes I saw that. Scotland quietly getting on with it. Great news

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Yes I saw that. Scotland quietly getting on with it. Great news

Good to see given the escalating dispute with rail unions ain't going to do ridership much good. Mind you unlikely to have any stock outside of LNER AZUMAs once its energised unless they are sensible and just but a load of class 755's off the shelf.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Good to see given the escalating dispute with rail unions ain't going to do ridership much good. Mind you unlikely to have any stock outside of LNER AZUMAs once its energised unless they are sensible and just but a load of class 755's off the shelf.

The reduced timetable that ScotRail imposed on the Fife Circle (or Tay Cities as they like to call it) from May 2022 wouldn't do much good either. Hope I'm proved wrong but I can't see this electrification breathing life into Edinburgh Gateway station.

 

[Kryten2340]

And at Manchester.

This conversation has recently taken place in another thread.

There’s also trip wire alongside the Tyne and Wear Metro on the approach to Airport Station in Newcastle.

 

[snowball]

There's now a version of the press release on the Network Rail site (the one linked in #53 is from Transport Scotland).

Piling work to get underway to electrify line to Fife

Work to lay foundations that will pave the way for the electrification of the Fife Circle is about to get underway.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Work to lay foundations that will pave the way for the electrification of the Fife Circle is about to get underway.

The £55million Scottish Government investment in the line between Haymarket and Dalmeny will see the railway transformed to accommodate quieter, more environmentally friendly electric trains.

The first phase of work between Haymarket and Dalmeny will see Network Rail pile the foundations for masts that will carry overhead wires up to the Forth Bridge. In total it will see 25 single track kilometres (STKs) of railway electrified by December 2024.

It includes a video.

In the "Downloads" column on the left of the press release is a map showing the first four stages of Fife electrification:

1, Haymarket to Dalmeny

2, from Thornton North southward to a point between Kirkcaldy and Kinghorn

3, from Thornton North westward to Lochgelly

4, from Thornton North northward to Ladybank

Not shown but already under construction is

5, the reopening of the Levenmouth branch, eastward from Thornton North, which will be wired from the start even though it will be run by DMUs at first (see its own thread).

These routes radiate from Thornton because there will be a feeder station there.


Edit: a bit of checking with railmiles shows that these phases will allow a battery train to get from Edinburgh to Dundee, Perth or Levenmouth, via Kirkcaldy or Dunfermline, without any continuous run of more than 20 miles away from the wires.

Further edit: Though you would also need wired sections at Perth and Dundee so trains could charge up for the return journeys.

 

[Western Gaffer]

The reduced timetable that ScotRail imposed on the Fife Circle (or Tay Cities as they like to call it) from May 2022 wouldn't do much good either. Hope I'm proved wrong but I can't see this electrification breathing life into Edinburgh Gateway station.

Where is the Fife circle referred to as Tay Cities? There doesn't seem to be any overlap between these two distinct locations to me so it would be odd for ScotRail or anyone else to confuse them....

 

[najaB]

Where is the Fife circle referred to as Tay Cities? There doesn't seem to be any overlap between these two distinct locations to me so it would be odd for ScotRail or anyone else to confuse them....

I think it's because they're tying the Fife Circle in with the local services through to Arbroath, as separate from the express services up to Aberdeen. Most of these now run non-stop between Haymarket and Leuchars.