Rail strikes discussion

[Ivor]

Enjoy your career with no T&Cs and rubbish pension, checking tickets on a cold draughty platform. Because guess what, you ain't going to be Signalling trains through the network and you also won't be driving them. Not as some agency worker.

“Not as some agency worker”

Wow!!!

Like any job where staff required someone has to do it & there has been agency staff on the railway for years doing menial tasks like sweeping up, dealing with ASB, but anyway each to their own.

 

[Siggy1980s]

This is where all lever pullers work. Boxes like this.

 

[Gems]

How misinformed you are....... Lever Pullers? Are you for real? At least 40% of my colleagues in my little lever box (major signalling centre) are paying off university debt while bringing up families. Lever Pullers...... . And if we have this idea of grandeur, why have we not been on strike for near as damn it 30 years.

Well, the reason why you haven't been on strike is because you haven't needed to. You have been well paid and still are. You have good terms and conditions. You don't work outside. Nobody has been threatening your job. I would say it has been cushty. Now you demand a pay rise when you have had above inflation pay rises year on year. Perhaps just for a few years it is time to put something back into the system, you know, have a little of the pain that others are feeling in order for us all to get out of this s*** street we are in.

I mean you follow the words of the RMT boss who is earning £160k a year as iff he is some kind of God. And most of you probably voted for the government you are now at war with. I have never put myself in the position of voting for a government that would cause me grief, yet many of you do, and that is because in truth, you are not having to run to foodbanks.

So my friend, I don't want to fall out with you, because you make some good points. But a little humility can go a long way.

 

[Siggy1980s]

“Not as some agency worker”

Wow!!!

Like any job where staff required someone has to do it & there has been agency staff on the railway for years doing menial tasks like sweeping up, dealing with ASB, but anyway each to their own.

Ok then, show me where I can drive trains as an agency worker.

Some agency worker.
Some signaller.
Some train driver.
Some pilot.

Its a generic term and covers all aspects of life.

 

[Gems]

Ok then, show me where I can drive trains as an agency worker.

Worth Valley Railway will let you drive one of their big steaming kettles for just being a volunteer.

 

[Ivor]

Ok then, show me where I can drive trains as an agency worker.

Perhaps I’ve missed something but no agency worker signs up to drive trains, be a signaller, be an OBS, we know this won’t be possible, we do know though from day one we can sometimes ‘up-skill’ for Gateline or Dispatch in addition to CSA work.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Worth Valley Railway will let you drive one of their big steaming kettles for just being a volunteer.

Aye not straight off the street though! Takes years.

 

[Gems]

Aye not straight off the street though! Takes years.

Used to be able to pay a couple of hundred to have a go.

 

[Efini92]

Does anyone know when the strike day timetables are likely to be released?

 

[Gems]

Does anyone know when the strike day timetables are likely to be released?

End of the week I believe. Dont take them at face value though.

 

[Efini92]

End of the week I believe. Dont take them at face value though.

Cheers I’ll keep an eye out

 

[Siggy1980s]

Well, the reason why you haven't been on strike is because you haven't needed to. You have been well paid and still are. You have good terms and conditions. You don't work outside. Nobody has been threatening your job. I would say it has been cushty. Now you demand a pay rise when you have had above inflation pay rises year on year. Perhaps just for a few years it is time to put something back into the system, you know, have a little of the pain that others are feeling in order for us all to get out of this s*** street we are in.

I mean you follow the words of the RMT boss who is earning £160k a year as iff he is some kind of God. And most of you probably voted for the government you are now at war with. I have never put myself in the position of voting for a government that would cause me grief, yet many of you do, and that is because in truth, you are not having to run to foodbanks.

So my friend, I don't want to fall out with you, because you make some good points. But a little humility can go a long way.

Just to round this up, all these clever people I work with, who chose to go to university and are now suffering with having to pay it off, they all voted to strike too. So while I personally didn't go to University, and just wanted a job on the railway, all my clever, educated colleagues believe that tje strike is needed too. Read in to that what you may. But do my clever, educated signalling colleagues think they're better than everyone else, like I, the none educated apparently do?

Tongue in cheek humour though, maybe they're not that clever because any one can be a Signaller, even thickies who are RMT members, like me. The university debt is pointless if just anyone can be a Signaller, pulling levers.

 

[Caaardiff]

Just to round this up, all these clever people I work with, who chose to go to university and are now suffering with having to pay it off, they all voted to strike too. So while I personally didn't go to University, and just wanted a job on tje railway, all my clever, educated colleagues believe that tje strike is needed too. Read in to that what you may.

Tongue in cheek humour though, maybe they're not that clever because any one can be a Signaller, even thickies who are RMT members, like me. The university debt is pointless if just anyone can be a Signaller, pulling levers.

Suffering paying off Uni debt? As you say, you didn't go so didn't have to pay it back. It's not a back breaking amount to pay back, in fact it's a miniscule amount that certainly doesn't lead to suffering.
I don't think you really understand the level of suffering across the country from people that can't afford to put food on the table because they aren't paid the general railway wages of £30k, £40k, even £50k+. That is real suffering, and they won't be getting anywhere near a 10% pay rise.

 

[Siggy1980s]

Suffering paying off Uni debt? As you say, you didn't go so didn't have to pay it back. It's not a back breaking amount to pay back, in fact it's a miniscule amount that certainly doesn't lead to suffering.

Tell that to them, not me.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jun 2022 ==

That is real suffering, and they won't be getting anywhere near a 10% pay rise.

And neither will we.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I'm not suggesting sacking him, or any other director. But its still absolutely sickening being told how their is no money available by people who are on monstrously huge salaries. By people who absolutely are not suffering at all by the cost of living issues.

It is equally sickening to hear people who are on £40K a year saying the same thing. The magnitude of how out of touch is irrelevant. I don't hear any of my colleagues claiming they are skipping meals so their kids can eat.

 

[lineclear]

Suffering paying off Uni debt? As you say, you didn't go so didn't have to pay it back. It's not a back breaking amount to pay back, in fact it's a miniscule amount that certainly doesn't lead to suffering.
I don't think you really understand the level of suffering across the country from people that can't afford to put food on the table because they aren't paid the general railway wages of £30k, £40k, even £50k+. That is real suffering, and they won't be getting anywhere near a 10% pay rise.

In the three months to April, the average rise in annual pay was 4.2%. In the private sector, it was 8%. So, actually, plenty of people are getting a near 10% pay rise.

Fuel and energy prices are through the roof. Plenty of railway staff are struggling, and mortgages or rent still need paying. Besides, it's ridiculous to argue that only the lowest paid people should have a pay rise.

 

[GB]

Suffering paying off Uni debt? As you say, you didn't go so didn't have to pay it back. It's not a back breaking amount to pay back, in fact it's a miniscule amount that certainly doesn't lead to suffering.
I don't think you really understand the level of suffering across the country from people that can't afford to put food on the table because they aren't paid the general railway wages of £30k, £40k, even £50k+. That is real suffering, and they won't be getting anywhere near a 10% pay rise.

I’ve read it can cost £9k per year, over the length of a degree I wouldn’t say it’s minuscule.

 

[Towers]

Thread lock in 3, 2, 1....

But on a serious note, the post highlighting that NR staff and those from TOCs have very different perspectives was a very sensible one, and to my mind simply reinforces the idea that this is more about the RMT simply doing everything they can to pull off a 'national strike'. The sad thing is that the RMT leadership will see that in itself as a massive, noble victory, regardless of the outcome. Sigh.

 

[njamescouk]

The railways are subsidised to the tune of over £600 a year per household, Given most people do not use the railways that's a crazy level of subsidy

Another problem is the railways are a 24/7 business but on many lines working at weekends is voluntary and paid overtime rates. That's a crazy way to run a business and has to change

how much are the roads subsidised for? how much profit do they make?

 

[Need2]

The railways are subsidised to the tune of over £600 a year per household, Given most people do not use the railways that's a crazy level of subsidy

Another problem is the railways are a 24/7 business but on many lines working at weekends is voluntary and paid overtime rates. That's a crazy way to run a business and has to change

So what is your answer then, cut everyone’s pay or charge actual cost for a ticket?

 

[Gems]

My point of view as a train conductor of over 20 years summed up is this.

I took a £7k pay cut coming into this job. I took it because I was at the time of life where the railway long term offered me a bit of security. It was a risk, but because of pay rises it was a risk that paid off. What amazed me was the relaxed regime. Yes you have rules, medicals, screenings, and abusive passengers, but you also don't have managers demanding you push a brush around the floor if you are sat spare for a shift. I have also never been in a job pre railway where you can get a three hour flyer.
What amazes me more is how people in this job very quickly seem to take these perks for granted. I take my lad once a year on the Cally sleeper as a trip out, couldn't do that without the perks my job offers. The railway overall has been good to me and my family.

Now it is time to put something back. We are in trouble, passengers numbers are falling off, revenue is dropping away. I can do one of two things. I can strike, or I can work a extra rest day to make up for the rising inflation. I'll choose the later. This is why I found Grant Shapps comments about overtime working offensive. Not all of us work rest days to make up for strikes, some of us do it to help ourselves out and to help the travelling public out. I don't like Tory governments, but just because you don't like the messenger doesn't mean the message is wrong.

I know some railway grade are not paid as well as mine, and I have sympathy with that. But neither do I care for those who are paid more than me thinking the gravy train is a ongoing journey whilst those who we take to work are struggling.

It is time to make contact with reality.

 

[wobman]

A big issue here is that the Railways have always been subsidised and there's decades of historic backup from Unions. Like it or not, the railways are a very well paid industry. TOC's do get more than NR in a lot of jobs, but when you look at my local TOC advertising for station cleaners at £20k a year, it's a clear sign that wages for other roles will likely be higher.
The Railway is a public service, as are bus services, but bus operators and associated job roles don't get big wages and heavy union backings. They are generally run by private bus companies. Airlines are private business and the race to the bottom had been happening for years, low wages for low fares. There are many safety critical roles within both of those industries that get paid a fraction of the equivalent railway roles.
By all means those in safety critical roles do deserve to be paid well, but the entitlement of some railway workers that believe they are better than other industries safety critical roles is absurd.

If the railways were totally privatised decades ago and wages weren't continually raised as they have been, would anyone have quizzed any differently? No. The Railway is a public service and should be provided as so, cheap fares and reliable service to enable people to get around. It's not cheap to run a creaking aged railway but the wage bill in this country for it must be astronomical.
It's not nice but change needs to happen, more so from the top down, TOC's and NR need to be more economical and efficient rather than continually p****ng taxpayers money up the wall. Pay safety critical roles well, as is deserved, but remove all the BS that comes with it like Union red tape, reliance on weekend overtime and jobs for the boys in Management tiers. Before anyone comes back with the argument that it's the TOC's that want the overtime, that shouldn't be an issue. It's the passenger that loses out. If more people need to be employed to properly cover the service then do it, and find cost savings elsewhere. If workers need to work a 7 day week and the overtime gets spread out, do it. Stop arguing about who does and doesn't want what and make it work for the passenger.
And for anyone that argues "railway workers won't work overtime when it's sunny", come to Wales when it's sunny or there's a big event on, try and catch a train or check the TOC's website for the number of cancellations. It happens regularly.

So why not give a solution to this problem?
What I've read is the usual rants about railway staff earn too much but bus drivers don't earn enough etc.
I have a friend who was a bus driver it took him 2 weeks of training then he was out driving, a train conductor takes 3 months. A train driver takes a year of training, these are not like for like comparisons you state.

I'm amazed you begrudge a cleaner earning £20k, they should earn more not less.

 

[wobman]

Aye not straight off the street though! Takes years.

Let's not let the facts get in the way of a rant about a topic the poster knows nothing about, I have colleagues that work on Llangollen as volunteers & it takes years of training to drive the kettles.

Imagine paying to drive a kettle as a footplate experience package and the society volunterrs say there's the steam train go drive it, its just a few levers and throw some coal in the fire.

Some posters a clueless about the skill sets needed to do certain jobs.

 

[cambsy]

I. Have just applied for a railway job, locally, and I know with the strikes, its not easiest time to join the railways, but id be happy, just to get the job, and the pay and conditions, look fine to me. Im not interested in the politics, and would not support the strike, only thing the RMT would be of use to me, is in dispute etc, and if the choice was, if join union id have to strike, then I wouldnt join union.on principle, and id be just happy to get to work on the railways. All my jobs so far have had no union, so I dont need one now.

 

[2021_Signaller]

The railways are subsidised to the tune of over £600 a year per household, Given most people do not use the railways that's a crazy level of subsidy

Another problem is the railways are a 24/7 business but on many lines working at weekends is voluntary and paid overtime rates. That's a crazy way to run a business and has to change

That's not corrrect. I'm rostered Saturdays and Sundays the same as any other day except that I can refuse the Sunday and the relief will do it instead.

Boxes that aren't 24 hours close in the evening. It's hardly crazy. It's a well run system.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jun 2022 ==

I. Have just applied for a railway job, locally, and I know with the strikes, its not easiest time to join the railways, but id be happy, just to get the job, and the pay and conditions, look fine to me. Im not interested in the politics, and would not support the strike, only thing the RMT would be of use to me, is in dispute etc, and if the choice was, if join union id have to strike, then I wouldnt join union.on principle, and id be just happy to get to work on the railways. All my jobs so far have had no union, so I dont need one now.

I suspect that attitude is probably common among new joiners, but the difference is with only 12 months experience you learn an enormous amount about how the railway works and the essential nature of other roles to what you do. You cannot work without them, regardless of what you may think at the beginning. There will come a time when you're up the creek without a paddle and if those people aren't there you will take on an enormous amount of responsibility and stress to continue working (for up to 12 hours on your own) and if you slip ... things could happen and people could die. You are lead responsibility and the police will come to you as the first port of call. If you're not in a union pal, you'll be facing all of that on your own. You're free to make the choices you want, but regardless of what you may have read and think you understand - it's not half of what you need.

 

[wobman]

I. Have just applied for a railway job, locally, and I know with the strikes, its not easiest time to join the railways, but id be happy, just to get the job, and the pay and conditions, look fine to me. Im not interested in the politics, and would not support the strike, only thing the RMT would be of use to me, is in dispute etc, and if the choice was, if join union id have to strike, then I wouldnt join union.on principle, and id be just happy to get to work on the railways. All my jobs so far have had no union, so I dont need one now.

How do you think the job you want got its pay & T&Cs, yes the union negotiated this. The unions fought hard to improve h&s inside the industry, unions are portrayed as the bad guys by the media but what about all the good they fight for.
Maternity pay/ paternity pay / sick pay/ paid leave / redundancy pay and so much more.

 

[DarloRich]

like Union red tape,

Could you give some examples of "union red tape"?

 

[Efini92]

I. Have just applied for a railway job, locally, and I know with the strikes, its not easiest time to join the railways, but id be happy, just to get the job, and the pay and conditions, look fine to me. Im not interested in the politics, and would not support the strike, only thing the RMT would be of use to me, is in dispute etc, and if the choice was, if join union id have to strike, then I wouldnt join union.on principle, and id be just happy to get to work on the railways. All my jobs so far have had no union, so I dont need one now.

Good luck I hope you get on. If you do will be interesting to see if you have joined the union after a couple of months service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good luck I hope you get on. If you do will be interesting to see if you have joined the union after a couple of months service.

Personally if I joined the railway I would join a union but not the RMT. The others are generally much more sensible and measured in their approach.

 

[DarloRich]

All my jobs so far have had no union, so I dont need one now.

if you have never had one how do you know?