Rail strikes discussion

[ComUtoR]

There are two available solutions: industrial action, or capitulation. Which do you suggest?

Understanding, negotiation, and compromise.

There is middle ground to be had. The ScotRail deal reflected that. 5% and a work towards Sunday working. Both sides got a little something, something.

 

[gazzaa2]

Understanding, negotiation, and compromise.

There is middle ground to be had. The ScotRail deal reflected that. 5% and a work towards Sunday working. Both sides got a little something, something.

The ministers are relishing a fight though. They don't want a compromise.

 

[Kite159]

I am lucky that as a Civil Servant I have been told to WFH on Tue/Wed/Thu so will be in the office Mon/Fri.( I commute to work by train)
I am also glad that I have been a Union member since I started working for the Civil Service in 1988 as the PCS Union has helped me 3 times the biggie being acquitted of Gross Miscondcut.
I supported the Merseyrail Guards during their recent lengthy dispute and support the RMT during this strke because if you don`t fight you lose.
I have previously gone on strike even though I voted no as the majority had voted for the strike.

I bet you would think differently if you had to attend work, no being able to escape the lack of service by working from home. Like many other workers who don't have that option of simply working from home and will need to fork out for a taxi in order to attend work (or risk getting fired if they don't turn up to work)

 

[windingroad]

A compromise somewhere in between?

Understanding, negotiation, and compromise.

There is middle ground to be had. The ScotRail deal reflected that. 5% and a work towards Sunday working. Both sides got a little something, something.

Normally I'd fully agree, but I've seen very little evidence thus far that the government has any intention of a facilitating a meaningful compromise.

 

[Wolfie]

@windingroad I agree your last post. My fear is that the current Government see the railways as the last bastion of unreformed trade unionism. I suspect that they have been waiting for an opportunity for this fight. Now, particularly given what the media dubbed "operation save big dog", they think that they have their chance.

 

[43066]

They most certainly do. Slightly OT but the cleaners at Waterloo have to be some of the most skilled workers in the country. I once saw a team of them tidy up a filthy 8-455 in all of 4 minutes!

We are in full agreement here.

I am referring to 'the railway' as the entity seen by the travelling public, of course there are detailed nuances to labour over.

That’s a perfectly valid point, well worthy of discussion. It’s also of scant relevance to a thread on internal industrial relations.

The ministers are relishing a fight though. They don't want a compromise.

Well then they will bloody well get one. Let’s hope cooler heads prevail and something is worked out.

I bet you would think differently if you had to attend work, no being able to escape the lack of service by working from home. Like many other workers who don't have that option of simply working from home

Like myself next week, then. I’ll be massively inconvenienced by the strikes. I remain fully supportive of this action by my colleagues.

 

[Fokx]

This already happens on TPE; I've seldom seen a Guard on TPE serves for many, many months now. On the rare occasions I've seen one walk through the train, they rarely check tickets, and when they do, they don't scan them

This is opinion rather than factual evidence. There are some guards who won’t go down the train and many occasions where the train is so busy that they can’t, but the majority are conducting ticket checks. I’ve worked 4 trains today and each train had a full check, including my double set 185 services.
Ticket scanning has been withdrawn as part of the industrial relations issues, not because they can’t be bothered, but because it’s what members voted for, to carry out the agreed method of work and not carry out ticket scanning, which is not the agreed method.

 

[yorkie]

This is opinion rather than factual evidence.

I was going by what TPE staff had told me on here after I mentioned I'd not had a check for ages.

By the way, this neither either "opinion" or "factual" evidence; it is my experience and my observation.

There are some guards who won’t go down the train and many occasions where the train is so busy that they can’t

I've not been on any TPE trains that have been very busy lately so it wouldn't have been too busy in any of my experiences; I can only speak for my experiences (or what others have told me).

but the majority are conducting ticket checks. I’ve worked 4 trains today and each train had a full check, including my double set 185 services.
Ticket scanning has been withdrawn as part of the industrial relations issues, not because they can’t be bothered, but because it’s what members voted for, to carry out the agreed method of work and not carry out ticket scanning, which is not the agreed method.

I'm not sure how this is disagreeing with what I wrote?

I didn't say it was because anyone "couldn't be bothered"; you made that up!

 

[matacaster]

There are two available solutions: industrial action, or capitulation. Which do you suggest?

No, another option would be for unions and management to work together to identify the many prehistoric rules which could and should have been eliminated years ago and how flexibility can be of benefit to everyone. Old rule removal could be negotiated, with the offer increased based on agreed value.
Another suggestion would be to have a series of more flexible contracts, such as optional 4 day contracts which might include working Saturday and Sunday - to some that would be awful, but others say without kids may find it very convenient. Grades could be changed to allow other duties to be incorporated.

It should not be a win or lose situation.

 

[gazzaa2]

Well then they will bloody well get one. Let’s hope cooler heads prevail and something is worked out.

Eventually but the trains are going to be a write off for months to come.

 

[Efini92]

No, another option would be for unions and management to work together to identify the many prehistoric rules which could and should have been eliminated years ago and how flexibility can be of benefit to everyone. Old rule removal could be negotiated, with the offer increased based on agreed value.
Another suggestion would be to have a series of more flexible contracts, such as optional 4 day contracts which might include working Saturday and Sunday - to some that would be awful, but others say without kids may find it very convenient. Grades could be changed to allow other duties to be incorporated.

It should not be a win or lose situation.

What are these prehistoric rules that should be removed?

 

[baz962]

What are these prehistoric rules that should be removed?

Hopefully no need to stop at a red aspect . Silly things slow me right down, then there are less delays. Win win .

 

[yorksrob]

Eventually but the trains are going to be a write off for months to come.

Passengers don't have the luxury of months to come.

 

[Moonshot]

Probably a good time to remind all about the facts. Strikes are on Tuesday Thursday and Saturday next week. Services will also be disrupted on the non strike days. The advice is don't travel. Nothing has changed since the start of this thread except that a derisory pay offer has been rejected straight away, and rightly so.

 

[ComUtoR]

Hopefully no need to stop at a red aspect . Silly things slow me right down, then there are less delays. Win win .

I recommend slowing down from the single yellow and creeping forward at 5mph until the Red steps up. Slower, but less need to stop. I was always taught that a moving train is a happy one. It also may be worth considering 'approach control' or learning when the 'spider' trips

 

[43066]

Hopefully no need to stop at a red aspect . Silly things slow me right down, then there are less delays. Win win .

Or just learn to properly electrically couple a 360. Slowed me right down the other day .

 

[Efini92]

I recommend slowing down from the single yellow and creeping forward at 5mph until the Red steps up. Slower, but less need to stop. I was always taught that a moving train is a happy one. It also may be worth considering 'approach control' or learning when the 'spider' trips

I think you’ve missed the sarcasm.

 

[ComUtoR]

I think you’ve missed the sarcasm.

Er...... should I have added a smiley to my post ?

 

[Kite159]

Eventually but the trains are going to be a write off for months to come.

And those passengers who would have considered using the train to go on holiday will decide to take the car instead (or even fly if flying is an option [i.e. if they live on a bus route which serves the airport]). They simply won't trust the railway.

Already has happened for a couple at work who had booked to use the trains to travel to Edinburgh next month (one way via WCML, the other via ECML), they have cancelled the train tickets due to the risk of future strikes and instead booked flights.

 

[43066]

It also may be worth considering 'approach control' or learning when the 'spider' trips

I was told they don’t exist?

 

[baz962]

I was told they don’t exist?

What signals

 

[Need2]

Totally off topic but I’d like to thank the mods for allowing this thread to develop.

 

[STKKK46]

Aren't RMT drivers involved? How many of those are there?

Sorry, yes they will be. Unsure how many!

 

[Moonshot]

And those passengers who would have considered using the train to go on holiday will decide to take the car instead (or even fly if flying is an option [i.e. if they live on a bus route which serves the airport]). They simply won't trust the railway.

Already has happened for a couple at work who had booked to use the trains to travel to Edinburgh next month (one way via WCML, the other via ECML), they have cancelled the train tickets due to the risk of future strikes and instead booked flights.

And the very best of luck to them using airports

 

[43066]

What signals

We left the depot on a single yellow and you made me late (you’ve realised who I am now ). Our job is truly a sport of kings, isn’t it. Privileged to do it and we do earn well for it.

Let’s hope our RMT colleagues are successful in their endeavours.

 

[XAM2175]

What about not undertaking their job at all?

I also don’t see how they can be ‘withholding revenue’, it isn’t as though they are taking it themselves.

You could well be right, and to be honest I'm only half-remembering posts I saw elsewhere in the thread. Having said that, striking is protected in law (otherwise not turning up would just be gross misconduct) and I would assume doing your job badly probably isn't. But I'm not a unionised worker so this is probably all nonsense, and I defer to those who know better.

Yes, the two main forms of 'protected' industrial action in the UK are 1) the complete withdrawal of labour - a strike, in other words, and 2) doing only the minimum required to fulfil the terms of employment, i.e. 'work to rule', which includes overtime bans and the like.

Employees on strike forfeit their pay for the time they're on strike, and have that time deducted from their duration of employment when things like statutory redundancy payments are calculated. On the other hand, employees working to rule are paid because they are doing exactly what their job requires them to do, even though the withdrawal of "above and beyond" working like overtime can still cause the company losses.

There is no middle ground - employees who turn up and claim their pay despite doing less than their contracts require, or who deliberately do their jobs badly, are subject to disciplinary proceedings and can be dismissed for misconduct.

 

[leytongabriel]

TfL Overground can't even get the dates right. Announcements today of service disruptions between Tues 21st and Sunday 24th June.
Or perhaps they are working to a different calendar?

 

[nedchester]

What are these prehistoric rules that should be removed?

Well thinking you are entitled to an extra payment to check tickets with a scanner which is basically the same thing as checking tickets manually for a start.

 

[43066]

Well thinking you are entitled to an extra payment to check tickets with a scanner which is basically the same thing as checking tickets manually for a start.

Because if you slavishly adopt that you’d suffer a cut in pay by thousands per year… which is the union’s point…

You must know that, so why misrepresent the position?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

To be fair, I'm well paid but would not say "no" to a pay rise were one offered. My standard answer to such discussions is along the lines of "well, I'm hardly poor, but I'd never turn down a pay rise, who would?"

I wouldn't however be looking to strike for one, and do recognise that the economic situation is such that I may well not get one this year.

This is a very fair post.

I could not look my colleagues in the eye if I worked against my colleagues during industrial action. I would never abuse anyone that did but I certainly would have no interest in talking, helping or socialise with them.

This literally sounds so petty, like playground talk. It’s hard to believe it’s real. You would be filling in for them in their absence, and that to me, is a good thing - particularly for the customers as it stops them being even more abandoned by the railway.

Ignoring somebody because they did something you don’t like is:

• Unprofessional
• Childish
• Rude
• Immature

Are these really the characteristics of people that we want to be responsible for our safety?

That’s exactly what I was thinking.