Rail strikes discussion

[43066]

even worse than Failing so that is saying somethin.

He’s basically a crook, a chancer, a grubby little spiv, with the instincts and morals of a cockroach, who has blagged and blustered his way into his current job. You can see it in his face which seems to have a permanent sneer tattooed onto it.

I’m relatively right wing. I’m still glad Johnson got in and delivered Brexit, which meant more to me than anything else, really. Even I’m losing patience with the current government.

Trouble is there’s still no alternative for those of a centre right persuasion. Labour are going precisely nowhere. Starmer is an empty suit and when you look at the freakshow of the shadow cabinet… It’s an embarrassment.

They say the get the politicians we deserve… Not sure what that says about the U.K!

 

[BrummieBobby]

They are only a booking office clerk, a machine can sell a ticket!

Just out of interest, can the machine open the station, pick litter, open toilets, open waiting rooms, sweep up, keep the station tidy, spread salt in the winter, dispatch trains, be a focal point for confused / distressed / lost passengers, escalate issues, liaise with the signal box / emergency services and be a visible deterrent to anti-social and criminal behaviour?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

They are only a booking office clerk, a machine can sell a ticket!

Just out of interest, can the machine open the station, pick litter, open toilets, open waiting rooms, sweep up, keep the station tidy, spread salt in the winter, dispatch trains, be a focal point for confused / distressed / lost passengers, escalate issues, liaise with the signal box / emergency services and be a visible deterrent to anti-social and criminal behaviour?

No that is why there needs to be flexibility built into roles.

Hopefully no “that’s not my job GUV”

 

[windingroad]

Unfortunately it is not an obscure article, appearing on two of the biggest news platforms in the country and if it really is as flatly untrue as many suggest, not something the unions should want to leave on the record unchallenged.

I have been resisting the urge to rejoin the chorus of people responding to you, if only to preserve what sanity I have left, but the things you say just boggle the mind. The Daily Mail and The Sun are not "news platforms". They are vapid fluff platforms at best, and hateful disinformation platforms at worst. Shall I remind us all again of the headline? I have preserved the shouty bold type for the full experience:

The mad militant gravy train: Services cancelled because staff won't work when it's sunny, breaks that restart if a boss says 'hello'. As they boast of bringing the network to a halt, GUY ADAMS reveals how union rules are stuck in the steam age​

Yes, those mad militants boasting as they refuse to drive their gravy train because it's too sunny and their boss smiled at them. It was very sunny today and I walked past the station and saw several trains in operation, but maybe it was a mirage? Because we're reliably informed by GUY ADAMS that staff simply won't work on sunny days.

Come on. I refuse to believe you genuinely can't see why nobody in their right mind would bother with such a ludicrous article. It's propaganda and not even a skillful piece of propaganda at that. It's incredibly clumsily done, and yet you (and all the frothing commenters) lap it up.

It isn't just the tabloids that talk nonsense from time to time.

So you do admit they talk nonsense?

 

[43066]

Hopefully no “that’s not my job GUV”

In my experience that’s only ever said on the railway when the goodwill has been exhausted.

 

[LOL The Irony]

If you were say in my depot I would be professional BUT that would be it. Many people would say its childish etc. But feelings run strong During industrial action

If someone isn't in a union, crossing a picket wouldn't be strike breaking, so I don't see what your problem is.

 

[jayah]

I have been resisting the urge to rejoin the chorus of people responding to you, if only to preserve what sanity I have left, but the things you say just boggle the mind. The Daily Mail and The Sun are not "news platforms". They are vapid fluff platforms at best, and hateful disinformation platforms at worst. Shall I remind us all again of the headline? I have preserved the shouty bold type for the full experience:


Yes, those mad militants boasting as they refuse to drive their gravy train because it's too sunny and their boss smiled at them. It was very sunny today and I walked past the station and saw several trains in operation, but maybe it was a mirage? Because we're reliably informed by GUY ADAMS that staff simply won't work on sunny days.

Come on. I refuse to believe you genuinely can't see why nobody in their right mind would bother with such a ludicrous article. It's propaganda and not even a skillful piece of propaganda at that. It's incredibly clumsily done, and yet you (and all the frothing commenters) lap it up.


So you do admit they talk nonsense?

Sometimes they do. As their sources are usually anonymous lying politicians who plot and scheme for a living, know nothing about anything, most mainstream media are poor at detail.

This example is less common. As I said many pages ago, it is clearly an internal source, probably more than one marking it out from the general comments above.

Like it or not, most of the public aren't across the detail either, but they will remember their last signal failure (if they use trains), imagining the RMT staff 400yds away 'keeping to their lane' with their feet up doing nothing....

They claim something like 35m UK adults a week reach from those two print and online.

Your reply is disingenuous as we know from earlier threads how sunny weather and non contracted Sundays work.

The idea the whole article is rubbish (as many here have said) collapses because some of the examples simply confirm what is well known from this forum.

 

[Kite159]

It doesn't help the RMT conflated those issues by announcing in capital letters a list of every ticket office at imminent threat of closure when such proposals don't exist at least in public and the list appeared to be a list of ticket offices as if Manchester Piccadilly was about to close next week.

It isn't just the tabloids that talk nonsense from time to time.

Or including some stations twice when there is only one ticket office (the stations in the North West which were formally TPE now Northern), and ticket offices at stations which have already closed (Oldham Mumps etc)

 

[43066]

If someone isn't in a union, crossing a picket wouldn't be strike breaking, so I don't see what your problem is.

The Waterloo guard who posted earlier, his colleagues will likely have a massive problem with it. That’s the simple fact of the matter - you know that when you join this industry! You might not like that but it doesn’t change it. It isn’t you the strike breakers will be wanting to swap shifts with…

I work with some ex Waterloo men. My impression from them is that it would be an *extremely* bad depot to work at if you broke a strike.

most mainstream media are poor at detail.

Can you acknowledge that the article you’ve read is a load of biased nonsense? If so we will make some progress.

 

[O L Leigh]

As I said many pages ago, it is clearly an internal source, probably more than one marking it out from the general comments above.

Is that stated within the article or have you simply inferred this?

The idea the whole article is rubbish (as many here have said) collapses because some of the examples simply confirm what is well known from this forum.

I think that this statement ought to be substantiated. Please can you cite some forum posts that back up what is alleged in this article.

 

[windingroad]

The idea the whole article is rubbish (as many here have said) collapses because some of the examples simply confirm what is well known from this forum.

It might be worth reflecting on why people on both sides of the argument here have told you this. (It's because it's rubbish.)

 

[theageofthetra]

I don't really care if it is in one case, or someone decides maintaining 200 mobile devices, software updates etc... is easier, but if it is like their other allowances it will involve 5mins to book on 15mins to read notices that in real life involves 1min to book on, 3min to read notices and 16mins of 'me' time which over 4 shifts amounts to 1/35 the contracted week.

Utter drivel

A target in Uniform? What about nurses etc, who quite often come into work in uniform at unsociable hours. Should they be allowed to claim for a cab from the NHS?

I have several nurse friends at a major London teaching hospital and they are only allowed out in uniform within the hospital grounds. This is for their own safety, and to prevent them being attacked by addicts and other undesirables for their work passes.

None wear uniform to/from work.

 

[43066]

Deleted as irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[class ep-09]

Trying to respond to you is like screaming into the void but damn my mental state and here we go.

My depot signing on time is 13m. That's 13m from me signing on to wheels rolling on my first train. So, 1m to sign on, pick up my schedule card. Another to read the SPAD notices (if there is anything new) and the Traincrew Information Display (live updates with things like emergency speed restrictions, heat restrictions, whatever), once that's scrolled round that's another couple of minutes, then a check of the main notice case. Once that's done it's time to walk to the cab, 8-10m remain. Leave my messroom, walk across the car park, into the station, check my departure platform, walk to my train, 2 or 3 minutes, 5-7m left. Confirm stops with my conductor, walk down the length of my train, 5m left, set up the cab, check my schedule for anything odd about this train, register the radio, sign into the train management system, set up the PIS, ready to go.

Normally I'm ready to go with about 2/3m to spare.

So where is the 16 minutes of me time I'm missing?

We have 15min for all above plus 2min to make a brew )

 

[Newone2022]

If you were say in my depot I would be professional BUT that would be it. Many people would say its childish etc. But feelings run strong During industrial action

Trying to understand this kind of posture as well as the ones expressed by @43066.
Why would you behave like that? If I respect your views, shouldn’t I be able to act according to mine without being discriminated for it?
On the other hand, as you mention democracy several times earlier in the post, how can any democratic process have any value when the ones that disagree with the majority are discriminated? How can you really decide freely in such an environment?

 

[142blue]

I’m not talking about going into work on days or hours outside your roster.

But we already employ multi functional people including myself so what would flexible look like.

Remember more skills is more points which is a higher salary scale

We've also moved off turns and worked other ones for at least a year. I've gone from earlies to lates on Fri and Sat to help job cover

Believe me we are already flexible in order to keep the operation running but we have to be as we don't have enough people currently before you factor in leave, sickness, release. From next week they lose me for six weeks on paternity and I'm doing 55-60 hrs pw currently covering in theory two separate turns

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Trying to understand this kind of posture as well as the ones expressed by @43066.
Why would you behave like that? If I respect your views, shouldn’t I be able to act according to mine without being discriminated for it?
On the other hand, as you mention democracy several times earlier in the post, how can any democratic process have any value when the ones that disagree are discriminated? How can you really decide freely in such an

Trying to understand this kind of posture as well as the ones expressed by @43066.
Why would you behave like that? If I respect your views, shouldn’t I be able to act according to mine without being discriminated for it?
On the other hand, as you mention democracy several times earlier in the post, how can any democratic process have any value when the ones that disagree are discriminated? How can you really decide freely in such an environment?

Please tell me you are not that naive. You would be going against your colleagues right to strike. Which involves losing money, getting abuse and listening to Daily Heil and The S*n readers spout on about stuff they have no idea about. When you go in to Work while people are striking you are going directly at THEM. Do you really think people would act like nothing has happened? The majority like myself would be professional and that is it. Yes some people will attempt to bully and intimidate which is wrong and should be reported but don't expect to even be respected because it just won't happen.

 

[Newone2022]

Please tell me you are not that naive. You would be going against your colleagues right to strike. Which involves losing money, getting abuse and listening to Daily Heil and The S*n readers spout on about stuff they have no idea about. When you go in to Work while people are striking you are going directly at THEM. Do you really think people would act like nothing has happened? The majority like myself would be professional and that is it. Yes some people will attempt to bully and intimidate which is wrong and should be reported but don't expect to even be respected because it just won't happen.

I am not going against them. I respect their right to strike. What I don’t understand is why my right to go to work can’t be equally respected. I haven’t joined the union in the first place, neither obviously voted.
What do you mean by professional and that is it?
Once again, as you spoke about democracy, how can that have any meaning when people can not express their views freely? How can I not think that people that think like myself are either silent to avoid discrimination or simply pushed away from the industry by that bully and intimidation that you say it will probably happen?
I already understood that if I chose to work there will be certain rejection, no need to clarify that, what I am trying to gather is an understanding of the reasons behind it, in order to make a decision that I can live with.

 

[306024]

We have 15min for all above plus 2min to make a brew )

Don’t say that, some will ignore the and believe there is a tea making allowance, negotiated on the walking time to the furthest supermarket, the slowest boiling kettle and for the person who likes the strongest tea.

As someone who has agreed walking times with union reps in the past, it has all been very sensible and simply agreeing what is practical and necessary to make the job work smoothly. No inflated allowances. If there is any grain of truth in that tripe of an article it perhaps says more about the management (or lack of) that the union reps.

 

[yorksrob]

The map I have seen published in the media over the last few days, depicting the routes still operating on strike days certainly tells a story.
With my taxpayers hat on, I’m beginning to think these are the routes that should remain open for passenger traffic, with the remainder closing permanently and replaced by alternative transport.
With working from home, teleconferencing and electric road vehicles we certainly won’t need a passenger network even remotely the size it currently is going forward.

Does that include closing Stockport ?

 

[nedchester]

Don’t say that, some will ignore the and believe there is a tea making allowance, negotiated on the walking time to the furthest supermarket, the slowest boiling kettle and for the person who likes the strongest tea.

As someone who has agreed walking times with union reps in the past, it has all been very sensible and simply agreeing what is practical and necessary to make the job work smoothly. No inflated allowances. If there is any grain of truth in that tripe of an article it perhaps says more about the management (or lack of) that the union reps.

The article regarding walking time is utter garbage. You just have to say that there is a requirement for safety reasons for a reasonable length break just like lorry drivers. If you are walking you are not on your break.

There’s a lot of practices that might need tightening up on the railway but this isn’t one of them.

 

[Towers]

I was a bus driver once upon a time, even we lowly peasant workers were afforded walking time! It's a superb example of low rent 'media' taking something which neither they nor most of their readership will understand, and clumsily attempting to weaponise it.

I bet there's all manner of industry-specific stuff that a BA pilot on north of £100k gets, the DM idiots could run an equivalent story about how much cheaper your holiday would be if they didn't have all these cushy "perks" etc, but that would also be b*llox!

Barely worthy of recognition, frankly.

 

[Cavan]

He’s basically a crook, a chancer, a grubby little spiv, with the instincts and morals of a cockroach, who has blagged and blustered his way into his current job. You can see it in his face which seems to have a permanent sneer tattooed onto it.

I’m relatively right wing. I’m still glad Johnson got in and delivered Brexit, which meant more to me than anything else, really. Even I’m losing patience with the current government.

Trouble is there’s still no alternative for those of a centre right persuasion. Labour are going precisely nowhere. Starmer is an empty suit and when you look at the freakshow of the shadow cabinet… It’s an embarrassment.

They say the get the politicians we deserve… Not sure what that says about the U.K!

The actual cabinet is mostly freak show of people who prime skill is to have their head up Johnson's bum - or do you think people like Dorries, Rees-Mogg, Patel etc would really be in the cabinet with a more competent PM? The only reason most of them still "support" him is that they know they are out of a minister job when the PM is replaced!

 

[choochoochoo]

Still not clear whether this is a practical blocker, something that should be addressed through upskilling, something that actually happens or the DM sources talking nonsense, although others have made their personal views very clear.

You mention upskilling.

It’s odd how nobody in the Daily Mail or Sun reports that the Tory Government approved GTR’s deskilling of drivers ?

Before the 2018 timetable change every Great Northern driver was able to drive almost all the types of trains and almost all routes on their network.

Now most can only drive 2 different trains types and a fraction of the route.

So why did the government decide to approve that decision ? How did they allow this inefficiency to creep in ?

 

[Tube driver]

Walking time?

Some of our duties involve getting a train (sometimes two) to our pickup point. I ain’t walking that!

 

[irish_rail]

The actual cabinet is mostly freak show of people who prime skill is to have their head up Johnson's bum - or do you think people like Dorries, Rees-Mogg, Patel etc would really be in the cabinet with a more competent PM? The only reason most of them still "support" him is that they know they are out of a minister job when the PM is replaced!

Like.

 

[ComUtoR]

Walking time?

Some of our duties involve getting a train (sometimes two) to our pickup point. I ain’t walking that!

Schhhhh. That's 'PASS' time. Don't tell Guy Adams that !

 

[choochoochoo]

Schhhhh. That's 'PASS' time. Don't tell Guy Adams that !

Next the Daily Mail will ask why do we have ‘changing end’ times

Can’t we just drive in reverse ?

 

[Dieseldriver]

The solution to the problems talked about in the Daily Mail article seems to be a personal teleportation device to be issued to every overpaid, workshy, militant Train Driver

 

[shakey1961]

Can I add my two penneth please. I'm really not up to speed on the reasons for the strike, but I do know that everyone on the railways are working. They're getting decent salaries even with the increasing cost of living, inflation and fuel costs. I'm not working due to disability and all I get is a fixed income, the government won't give me any more money week on week. So from that point, I have little sympathy for a strike based around pay. Why do working people have to go to food banks when even I don't go near them and I cope.

Give me a job on the railway and I'd love the extra money no matter how small or big the salary!