What % of train journeys that you personally make where you have no visibility of a conductor?That's when they bother to come round
What % of train journeys that you personally make where you have no visibility of a conductor?That's when they bother to come round
I see them operate doors and occasionally check ticketsWhat % of train journeys that you personally make where you have no visibility of a conductor?
Some great ideas but the current plans which have been widely reported are to save circa £600 million from staffing wern't they?I’ve only sampled a handful of stations in Sweden, but some late at night due to sleeper train delays and I didn’t experience any anti-social behaviour, but temperatures of -9 are probably quite off putting to youths. It may well be more of an issue in the more urban Stockholm area or possibly in the summer, which I didn’t experience beyond the Central station.
If you got rid of/re-deployed ticket office staff it doesn’t necessarily follow that anti-social behaviour will rise. It could release those staff to more ‘floating’ roles within stations which could actually deter anti-social behaviour across a wider area. Alternatively, cost savings could allow more BTP officers/security to be present at more stations, which possibly more passengers may find beneficial. Here in Italy, my local station doesn’t have any Trenitalia staff, but it does have a permanent railway police presence instead.
Put a ticket machine on the train as plenty of other countrys do.Ironic about Flowery Field, I was on the Glossop line last weekend and a group of teenage girls sat behind me were remarking how cute the station name sounded when we stopped there.
My parents would never use the train after say 7 or 8 o clock for fear of crime. De-staffing any more locations just isn't going to help with the fear of crime. Merseryrail stations without any staff in darker hours just aren't going to scream out that they're safe for anyone who's a little less confident or vulnerable in any way.
I haven’t yet found a way with my paper delay repay vouchers whilst online, or at my local stations TVM. But I can post on this forum even if buying a ticket with vouchers is too cryptic for me.
So perhaps @Bletchleyite would be kind enough to give a step by step dummies guide for people like me, or accept non ticket office transactions are only useful for sub-set of ticket issuing
Where I used to live, that was exactly the time when there wouldn't be staff available - the ticket office was only open until lunch time.
I agree a visible staff presence is useful but in a lot of cases the ticket office isn't providing that (I know Merseyrail ticket offices do). And I guess there is a safety aspect - it would not be fair to take staff out of their ticket office and expect them to provide a security guard type role.
I couldn't agree more. I've had over a decade of using Oyster and then contactless and on the whole, it takes out the kerfuffle of getting on a train, especially once it was introduced to NR stations. Gradually phasing paper tickets was a masterstroke by making Oyster cheaper than paper tickets and then on London's buses making them cash free worked, although I admit I had reservations, but contactless has largely resolved the issue of not having enough credit on Oyster along with weekly Bus Pass and Travelcard caps.As an outsider to this - why can't there just be a mass expansion of contactless?
It works so well in London. Train, tube, bus, whatever, hop on, hop off, and you get charged at 4am or whatever as per your use.
Going outside London feels like stepping back in time 25 years, especially busses!
For me on Greater Anglia 100%.What % of train journeys that you personally make where you have no visibility of a conductor?
For me on Greater Anglia 100%.
This is another issue as well.Where I used to live, that was exactly the time when there wouldn't be staff available - the ticket office was only open until lunch time.
I agree a visible staff presence is useful but in a lot of cases the ticket office isn't providing that (I know Merseyrail ticket offices do). And I guess there is a safety aspect - it would not be fair to take staff out of their ticket office and expect them to provide a security guard type role.
All valid points and we would all like a staff presence at every station, but it clearly isn’t economic to provide that network wide. Many people manage to use unstaffed stations frequently without incident (as I do). Where there are ticket offices providing the only staff presence they are often barely open beyond the morning anyway, so I’m not sure they provide much of a deterrent to anti-social behaviour.Some great ideas but the current plans which have been widely reported are to save circa £600 million from staffing wern't they?
Any ideas of floating roles or more police could well be a drop in the ocean even if they did happen.
What I can say from a personal point of view re anti social crime in quiet urban or semi urban locations during hours of darkness, is that I personally feel miles better when there are staff present in any form.
Whenever I've stayed out late in Blackpool on the weekend when the lights are on, the stewards at the tram stops make waiting there bearable. They seem to calm down any over boisterous behaviour by just being visible there. If they weren't there, sometimes I think I'd have to wait a hundred yards down the prom until I could see the tram until I went and stood at the actual stop because of some of the groups you see waiting there.
My parents would never use the train after say 7 or 8 o clock for fear of crime. De-staffing any more locations just isn't going to help with the fear of crime. Merseryrail stations without any staff in darker hours just aren't going to scream out that they're safe for anyone who's a little less confident or vulnerable in any way. We should be aiming for an environment where all people of all sexes and anyone vulnerable should be able to be without chance or fear of crime. De staffing some locations just wouldn't help with this imo.
What % of train journeys that you personally make where you have no visibility of a conductor?
On LNR high 90s. A small number of guards do tickets (always the same ones), most don't. I never understood why this half-job is tolerated.
There is one planned in the area immediately outside London for 2024, and possibly other areas later. However, there is a limit to how far that sort of ticketing can go and no one has really sorted out the approach for children.As an outsider to this - why can't there just be a mass expansion of contactless?
It works so well in London. Train, tube, bus, whatever, hop on, hop off, and you get charged at 4am or whatever as per your use.
Out of interest what are the limits/problems?There is one planned in the area immediately outside London for 2024, and possibly other areas later. However, there is a limit to how far that sort of ticketing can go and no one has really sorted out the approach for children.
I’m in Germany currently and there’s far more ticket checks on train than the U.K. - U.K. guards please note.In Germany it's rare for ticket checks to take place on stations or on trains but most people do buy tickets because the penalty for trying to get a free ride is too high.
You can very much use Contactless to go to Slough and Reading (but not Oyster beyond West Drayton).Crossrail makes it all look very odd - it's the same physical train that goes all the way to Reading, but yet you can't use contactless for the last 3rd part of journey - places like Slough?
Yet there are red TFL busses go to Slough!
The limits and problems are with expanding it over too wide an area. It works on the basis of charging a penalty if people don't touch in and out properly, with a maximum fare charged. The further out you go, the easier it is not to touch out and avoid paying the right fare (or having to charge a much more penal maximum fare).Out of interest what are the limits/problems?
(Aside of the fact that the cost could soon add up if you took an on-the-day ticket from London to Manchester!)
It is really quite complex to get the right fare to travel with children in London.There are children in London, seems to be ok!
Obviously needs improving then.......so how would you instruct the railway to do just that?For me on Greater Anglia 100%.
For most TOCs the cutoff would have been on Thursday or Friday, at least for this Tuesday's strike. A few have indicated they'd be willing to reinstate their normal timetable at a moment's notice (e.g. LO/XR) but most simply are not in a position to do so.Apologies if this has already been debated somewhere in the preceding 1,970 or so posts. What is the absolute latest point that any decision taken to call off the strike would need to be announced in order to avert impending disruption?
Technologically it's all perfectly possible. The issue is firstly the cost of designing and installing the necessary software and equipment, and secondly the need for difficult policy decisions on issues such as:As an outsider to this - why can't there just be a mass expansion of contactless?
It works so well in London. Train, tube, bus, whatever, hop on, hop off, and you get charged at 4am or whatever as per your use.
Going outside London feels like stepping back in time 25 years, especially busses!
I can see still some need for 'tickets' especially longer journeys which will I guess be cheaper in advance.
For those, the ticket could be
-An online ticket printed at home
-An online ticket on a phone app, saved PDF etc
-A printed ticket from a vending machine, either via card or cash
They key thing is that the ticket format does not matter, it should just be a QR code, either from the machine or your phone etc.
Surely that must cover 99.9% of the population?
Discounts such as OAP rail cards should be either done via some app, or staff at stations could help people, in the same way staff help/check age when you buy alcohol at self service checkout.
Contactless (but not Oyster) is valid out to Reading, and also now on the GWR branches off the line to Reading.Out of interest what are the limits/problems?
(Aside of the fact that the cost could soon add up if you took an on-the-day ticket from London to Manchester!)
There are children in London, seems to be ok!
Crossrail makes it all look very odd - it's the same physical train that goes all the way to Reading, but yet you can't use contactless for the last 3rd part of journey - places like Slough?
Yet there are red TFL busses go to Slough!
Myself, approaching zero %. The vast majority of my journeys start or end at unmanned stations, with no ticketing facilities, and are request stops. It's for the guard (I wouldn't ever use another word like "conductor" when speaking to them) to decide if they want to check my ticket or sell me one. it is very rare they do.What % of train journeys that you personally make where you have no visibility of a conductor?
I just answered the question about frequency of checks. No opinion was requested.Obviously needs improving then.......so how would you instruct the railway to do just that?
We are talking about stations which have a presence at the moment though aren't we and have had for many years?All valid points and we would all like a staff presence at every station, but it clearly isn’t economic to provide that network wide. Many people manage to use unstaffed stations frequently without incident (as I do). Where there are ticket offices providing the only staff presence they are often barely open beyond the morning anyway, so I’m not sure they provide much of a deterrent to anti-social behaviour.
That is absolutely true but a visible security guard may be better than someone locked away in a ticket office.There really are a lot of smaller stations which are in residential outer city areas which really are far better with a staff presence there.
But replacing a once staffed station with a casual part time security guard is far insuperior. Casual employment is not something we should promote for our stations really in such a rich country imo.Paper delay repay vouchers need to be abolished.
If a security guard is needed, employ one. More use than someone hidden behind glass in a booking office fairly remote from the platforms (as most Merseyrail ones are).
So how would you instruct the railway to improve the situation where everytime you make a rail journey, you never see a conductor?I just answered the question about frequency of checks. No opinion was requested.
It would not be hard to just let the small number of people who wish to assist a friend/relative, access facilities or spot trains through the barriers.How will you buy ... a platform ticket
The same would be true for me, but it isn't hard to print off an e-ticket. I will miss CCSTs on purely nostalgic grounds when they go, but this isn't a move to mandatory mobile phone usage.I know myself, a phone based ticket will be a dis-incentive..
That's likely.It probably is obvious, but simplify fares - properly.
If there is no facility to buy before boarding, they can buy on board with no penalty.Where do those individuals who don't have modern mobile phone or access to the Internet purchase tickets from if Ticket Offices won't exist or unable to purchase from a machine?
Very much depends on where you are. In my experience you won't get far on (say) the suburban Glasgow network without a ticket check! But this is a whole new topic...That's when they bother to come round
Probably best discussed in a new thread; I'll happily reply if you'd like to create one (feel free to link to it from here).What % of train journeys that you personally make where you have no visibility of a conductor?
Feel free to create a thread to discuss how you propose this be done; you are welcome to link to it from here. I'll be happy to reply in the thread; I'll have a few questions about how it might workIt probably is obvious, but simplify fares - properly.
You can.Crossrail makes it all look very odd - it's the same physical train that goes all the way to Reading, but yet you can't use contactless for the last 3rd part of journey - places like Slough?
Providing there are staff to issue tickets on the train, that's not a problem.I have two practical worries:
1. Minors, who don't tend to have bank accounts (it's true that some parents do now give their kids bank accounts, but in the short term this nevertheless remains a problem) and whom often travel by rail spontaneously, at least in and around Exeter. This could be solved if TVMs accepted cash but things seem to be going in the other direction.
This is a big concern however the TOD (ticket on departure) system is on its last legs and being replaced by e-tickets, which will make collection a thing of the past.2. Card errors when collecting tickets at the station. This has happened to me twice, and on both occasions it was solved by tapping my phone at the ticket office. I don't see how I'd deal with this if there was nowhere I could use the contactless app on my phone to verify my card, as I don't know my PIN and the physical card doesn't do contactless.
But replacing a once staffed station with a casual part time security guard is far insuperior. Casual employment is not something we should promote for our stations really in such a rich country imo.
Besides, a security guard isn't likely to do many other duties than security. Station staff act as security, do compliant routine security checks, they provide customer assistance including booked assistance, they can deploy ramps, they pick up litter, they clean, and they assist with station record keeping, they help in an emergency, and they sell tickets. Surely far better value than someone who's there for two days then somewhere else next week and who can do only security.
I have two practical worries:
1. Minors, who don't tend to have bank accounts (it's true that some parents do now give their kids bank accounts, but in the short term this nevertheless remains a problem) and whom often travel by rail spontaneously, at least in and around Exeter. This could be solved if TVMs accepted cash but things seem to be going in the other direction.
2. Card errors when collecting tickets at the station. This has happened to me twice, and on both occasions it was solved by tapping my phone at the ticket office. I don't see how I'd deal with this if there was nowhere I could use the contactless app on my phone to verify my card, as I don't know my PIN and the physical card doesn't do contactless.
Feel free to create a thread to discuss how you propose this be done; you are welcome to link to it from here. I'll be happy to reply in the thread; I'll have a few questions about how it might work