Rail strikes discussion

[HL7]

That government ban was wrong. Surely the whole point of a strike is to publicly show management the level of dissatisfaction of the staff? There is no need to act in an intimidating manner. I've engaged with those on picket lines (non railway). There was a bit of a party atmosphere. I learned a few things about their cause. Indeed if certain members were tasked with public engagement on the picket lines the unions may get more support.

You‘d only end up with confrontations at every picket line, not to mention that strikers have Withdrawn their labour and aren’t being paid so are under no obligation to turn up at their place of work.

Most of the public that you see being interviewed have been brainwashed into thinking everybody’s paid the same as a driver so you’ll have a situation where some disgruntled passengers are spewing uninformed bile at strikers manning the picket line.

 

[DarloRich]

One rule that should change regarding strikes in any sector is that staying at home shouldn't be permitted. If you're on strike, you should be compelled to attend a picket line for the duration of your shift.

May fall foul of the legislation and best practice guide.

I believe that the law limits pickets to 6 people outside a workplace

The law doesn't actually say that - the best practice does

 

[Starmill]

Do the RMT not offer strike pay?

They usually offer payments from a 'solidarity fund'. However, this time there are such a large number of people taking strike action across the country that this may be more limited than in the past.

 

[HL7]

Nah, sat here in bed with a brew is just fine with me. Gorgeous day too

Me too, although I still had to get up at 5 to phone in and book on. Outrageous.

 

[Bertiethebobby]

What happens when Sunday services increase? "Will you work my Committed Sunday Overtime for me, I'd like the day off (and can't take annual leave because it's overtime)?"

"Love to, but I've got my own committed Sunday to work now they've put more Sundays in the roster."

I think Sunday working has always been a bit of an oddity on the railway.

When I was a signalman in the 80's we were rostered Sundays and although it was generally accepted that it was non-compulsory the management took a dim view of those who didn't want to do them. They had the idea that it was our responsibility to find someone to cover them. As a young single person I wasn't that bothered about the overtime and hence wasn't very popular with the signalling manager and roster clerk.

 

[BrokenSam]

Not at all....it is the way they look. Perhaps people round your way also look like that, but you haven't noticed yet.

My area is pretty working class. Not a skinny jean in sight.

 

[Gems]

Am I right in thinking that if Sundays are put into the roster, in reality they either need to hire more workers, or cut back shifts (and therefore services) on the other six days to balance things out?

True. Overtime is cheaper. We here would need about 8 more guards.

 

[CFRAIL]

Sundays are still odd but work just fine at my TOC. We have the committed Sunday's and 90% of my depot work "our Sunday's". The ball is already firmly in the TOCs court because we can ask to go not available but if there's no one available you're working it. The only exception is if you're committed to one in your 2 week summer leave. We can't take holiday and we don't receive sick pay for them.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In how many industries, when a contract of employment is drawn up, does it state that "withdrawal of labour" is seen as a statement that would then require the employer to consider the implications of accepting the employee who had "withdrawn their labour" back into the workforce under the terms of "withdrawn their employment offer"?

 

[Gems]

Sundays are still odd but work just fine at my TOC. We have the committed Sunday's and 90% of my depot work "our Sunday's". The ball is already firmly in the TOCs court because we can ask to go not available but if there's no one available you're working it. The only exception is if you're committed to one in your 2 week summer leave. We can't take holiday and we don't receive sick pay for them.

Sounds like Northerns East Side. It works quite well.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

My area is pretty working class. Not a skinny jean in sight.

Not the way they dress...more their visual facial and body language. Hence my reference to Vinny Jones as a "Rent-a-Gangster" visual image....

 

[whoosh]

I think Sunday working has always been a bit of an oddity on the railway.

When I was a signalman in the 80's we were rostered Sundays and although it was generally accepted that it was non-compulsory the management took a dim view of those who didn't want to do them. They had the idea that it was our responsibility to find someone to cover them. As a young single person I wasn't that bothered about the overtime and hence wasn't very popular with the signalling manager and roster clerk.

Yes it is an oddity. It does need changing really.

•voluntary Sunday working is great for the staff, and works well most of the time.
• 'committed' Sundays are the worst of both worlds I think. What happens when there are lots of vacancies in the roster - less people to ask to cover a Sunday you want off.
• Sundays in the working week - losing out on the overtime they used to attract. There's usually been a large payrise when this has been negotiated, and it needs more staff.

Funnily enough the draft version of the Great plan to sort out the railways specifically mentioned "Sundays in the working week", but when the officially released version appeared there was just one change - the wording became something like "reliable Sunday arrangements" or something like that.

Obviously they'd realised how much it would cost!

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Just incase anyone is still not, RMT company council at Scotrail will be recommending to the EC the offer gets up to the members via referendum.

I can't see the members rejecting it.

 

[theageofthetra]

You‘d only end up with confrontations at every picket line, not to mention that strikers have Withdrawn their labour and aren’t being paid so are under no obligation to turn up at their place of work.

Most of the public that you see being interviewed have been brainwashed into thinking everybody’s paid the same as a driver so you’ll have a situation where some disgruntled passengers are spewing uninformed bile at strikers manning the picket line.

Anyone spews bile, uninformed or otherwise and it affects my concentration , I'm not driving any further in service.

 

[RPI]

Rhe committed Sundays thing is strange, either make it another working day or keep it as it is, making it another working day means either an extra rest day or increasing the working week so higher salary. Whats proposed here is just a half baked measure.

 

[footprints]

Traffic levels being reported as the same as any Tuesday this morning. Mick's dreams of bringing the country to a grinding halt appear to have crashed and burned already.

 

[NORTHERNSOUL]

True. Overtime is cheaper. We here would need about 8 more guards.

Yes, and those 8 guards could come from the pool of staff the RMT are claiming will be made redundant.

Seems to me there's a very logical chain of movement here to solve the whole dispute

RMT agree to changes in the Sunday arrangements [ which I think they know they're going to have to sooner or later ] and all the extra positions needed come from the pool that the RMT claim are about to be made redundant. And in recognition staff are given a much larger than currently offered pay rise in lieu of accepting the changes to Sunday arrangements which would then separate it from other workers' claims in that part of it would be attributed to accepting the changes.

But somebody needs to give Shapps a good slap for deliberately inflating the average wage figure by including the drivers rates in all the figures he was quoting and smirking all the time he was doing it knowing full well what he was doing. A really good educated and reasonable-sounding RMT spokesman with the well-prepared correct figures could blow a hole so big in Shapps argument that I doubt that he'd recover from it.

 

[KM1991]

Traffic levels being reported as the same as any Tuesday this morning. Mick's dreams of bringing the country to a grinding halt appear to have crashed and burned already.

A picture that matches your comment.

 

[HL7]

Sundays are still odd but work just fine at my TOC. We have the committed Sunday's and 90% of my depot work "our Sunday's". The ball is already firmly in the TOCs court because we can ask to go not available but if there's no one available you're working it. The only exception is if you're committed to one in your 2 week summer leave. We can't take holiday and we don't receive sick pay for them.

Works the same at my TOC bit if I request to be booked off for a future event, ie, a wedding or christening in 3 months time I just inform the TCS that I won’t be in on that sunday whether they cover it or not.

Quite a few drivers at my place do the same thing, we’ve all been taken upstairs to explain ourselves for not turning up but no one has ever been disciplined for it. I think they’d rather that people had the fear of being disciplined rather than trying to actually do it and failing and drivers just start taking a Sunday off when they feel like it.

Anyone spews bile, uninformed or otherwise and it affects my concentration , I'm not driving any further in service.

Absolutely, I wouldn’t be driving after being distracted in such a manner either.

 

[JonathanH]

Just incase anyone is still not, RMT company council at Scotrail will be recommending to the EC the offer gets up to the members via referendum.

I can't see the members rejecting it.

Does the Scottish offer come without the 'hatchet jobs' included in the DfT TOC offer? There is a long long way between 5% and unchanged roles and benefits and 2% with 'hatchet jobs'.

 

[Exscrew]

A picture that matches your comment.

A picture that matches your comment.

Hahhahahah

 

[HL7]

Does the Scottish offer come without the 'hatchet jobs' included in the DfT TOC offer? There is a long long way between 5% and unchanged roles and benefits and 2% with 'hatchet jobs'.

Scotrails offer includes a 5 year commitment to no compulsory redundancies. I think the events in England this week will go a long way to ensuring that offer is accepted by members.

 

[theageofthetra]

Traffic levels being reported as the same as any Tuesday this morning. Mick's dreams of bringing the country to a grinding halt appear to have crashed and burned already.

Not around our depot. Chaos in this part of SE London.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm interested in who is working the signalling centres today. I'd assumed that it was mainly Movement Managers/ Signalling centre managers and some non-union staff.

a variety of staff with signalling competencies, but if normal practice is followed it is assumed that no signallers will be turning up for work (RMT members or not, although no doubt some will have reported for duty).

Not around our depot. Chaos in this part of SE London.

presumably Grove Park, and the roadworks on the S Circular?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Other than an increasingly visible sense of arrogance and entitlement by some of them, I’m still trying to establish what actually sets railway workers aside from bank clerks, supermarket staff, NHS workers, dentists, vets, emergency services, bus drivers, road maintenance teams, council members etc. who are also suffering the cost of living increases too?

What makes the railway think we deserve a better payrise than them, seeing as if someone were to suggest the answer was simply greed they’d likely get torn down immediately?

I also find it prominent that people are citing that they’re unable to earn enough to live on from the rises - and yet they’ll be stopping other key workers getting paid at all (let alone rises) by striking.

Meanwhile: Suggestions that Boris will change the law to make it legal for strikers to be replaced with agency workers. If it’ll bring back a railway service and the genuine workers still don’t want to provide one I’d be all for it.

Boris Johnson plans to break rail strikes by allowing use of agency workers | Rail transport | The Guardian

Unions condemn measure as potentially against international law as 40,000 staff prepare for first day of industrial action

amp.theguardian.com

 

[gmaguire]

My commute this morning using Southeastern and SWR has been quieter than expected. I suppose a lot of people are just working from home, cycled to work, or arranged a car share.

 

[theking]

Solidarity with the workers on strike today.

Sad for society there are so many brainwashed people wanting a race to the bottom just to protect the tory donors and big business.

 

[ComUtoR]

Meanwhile: Suggestions that Boris will change the law to make it legal for strikers to be replaced with agency workers. If it’ll bring back a railway service and the genuine workers still don’t want to provide one I’d be all for it.

I thought you already worked for the railway now ? Wouldn't it be far better to create a more adaptive workorce where staff can multi-skill and be used to cover where required ? My TOC is already paying internals to cover other positions.

 

[CFRAIL]

Where are they finding 40000 agency staff whilst so many other sectors are experiencing a shortage? It's just soundbites from the Government to appeal to their voters, the reality is there's already a shortage of care staff, truck drivers, hospital staff and suddenly we want 40000 more to replace railway staff? What a load of tosh. Not to mention the Government 'outrage' when P&O replaced their staff with agency workers and yet now wish to go down the same route for the railways... what hypocrisy!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I thought you already worked for the railway now ? Wouldn't it be far better to create a more adaptive workorce where staff can multi-skill and be used to cover where required ? My TOC is already paying internals to cover other positions.

We’ve all been told in this thread that people in this industry can be toxic enough as to bully, name-call or ignore colleagues who “cover where required” so would be reluctant to.

Not to mention the Government 'outrage' when P&O replaced their staff with agency workers and yet now wish to go down the same route for the railways... what hypocrisy!

A key difference being those staff weren’t refusing to work though.