Rail strikes discussion

[dk1]

you had people in on rest days?

Yes a few. The rosters where prepared last Friday so there was always an option the action would be called off and a full service resumed. Same goes for this Saturday.

 

[Gems]

you had people in on rest days?

They'd have to in case strike was called off.

 

[Efini92]

you had people in on rest days?

That was my thought too.

 

[AntoniC]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-61877805

Many such businesses are already struggling because of a shortage of staff, meaning they cannot cater for the same number of guests as usual.

Any railway union member planning a trip to the Highlands would be well advised not to mention his trade!

I had lunch there recently and can recommend the Cheese & Chili Toastie followed by Lemon & Mascapone Cheese cake and a cup of tea.

 

[Gems]

I was in at 4.30 this morning and home for 10am. I don't mind doing the odd Sunday overtime either, put in for this Sunday coming weeks ago now.
Now some hairy ars** striker who never usually works a Sunday will grab anything going due to our equalisation agreement.

 

[Ivor]

I’m just finding my 30s far too stressful at the moment. Everything just seems to be going wrong.

I can associate with your situation, I for one have been there (many times) & I’m sure the majority here will confirm the same…..the workplace in addition to everything else can be one of the most stressful environments in many industries if you let it be

 

[Spet0789]

Greater Anglia are doing OK it seems:
Average annual punctuality for the whole of the Greater Anglia network is now at 94.57 per cent.

Punctuality on Greater Anglia’s intercity services between Norwich, Ipswich, Colchester and London have reached an all-time high of 94.2 per cent of trains arriving on time on average throughout the year.

Meanwhile average annual punctuality for other services on the Great Eastern Main Line between Ipswich/Colchester/Clacton/Walton/Harwich and London Liverpool Street is at 94.6 per cent, with 94.8 per cent of trains on the Southend Victoria line running on time throughout the year.

On the West Anglia line between Cambridge/Bishops Stortford/Hertford East and London Liverpool Street, 94.2 per cent of trains have been on time over the last year.

Trains on the Greater Anglia’s regional services have also achieved very high annual punctuality. The top five routes are Norwich to Great Yarmouth with 98.2 per of trains on time throughout the year; Norwich to Sheringham at 97.5 per cent, Norwich to Lowestoft, 97.4 per cent; Marks Tey to Sudbury, 97.2 per cent and Norwich to Cambridge 95.9 per cent.

Lies, damned lies and so on.

Under the cover of Covid, Greater Anglia seem to have been able to massively pad the timetables at least on the Stansted Express. About 10% slower than it used to be.

 

[ComUtoR]

You don't know what a DTM is???

I also didn't know what a DTM was. I had an inkling but that was all. We used to have SDMs but they got moved to KICC and become RMs. We also have CIMs, PEDMs, LTSCs, TSM, and OCMs Its all very confusing

 

[Gems]

I also didn't know what a DTM was. I had an inkling but that was all. We used to have SDMs but they got moved to KICC and become RMs. We also have CIMs, PEDMs, LTSCs, TSM, and OCMs Its all very confusing

I know. We have some PRATs as well.

 

[cambsy]

Can Rail bosses, and T.O.C’s, decide to take a financial hit, and agree deal, Without going to the government? Or does the government have final say, on any pay deal? Just asking, as Rail bosses and RMT, are due to hold talks tomorrow.

 

[Gems]

Can Rail bosses, and T.O.C’s, decide to take a financial hit, and agree deal, Without going to the government? Or does the government have final say, on any pay deal? Just asking, as Rail bosses and RMT, are due to hold talks tomorrow.

Has to be run through dft now. And who runs that?

 

[cambsy]

Gems, ok thought as much, just checking. I’d say, there is little hope of the Rail bosses achieving anything then, as government, wont budge on what they are prepared to offer.

 

[Gems]

Gems, ok thought as much, just checking. I’d say, there is little hope of the Rail bosses achieving anything then, as government, wont budge on what they are prepared to offer.

Now you know why Shapps is like his boss. Tells lies faster than a horse can gallop

 

[Watershed]

Can Rail bosses, and T.O.C’s, decide to take a financial hit, and agree deal, Without going to the government? Or does the government have final say, on any pay deal? Just asking, as Rail bosses and RMT, are due to hold talks tomorrow.

No. Every penny of expenditure has to be signed off by the DfT. The 'franchise' agreements have terms stipulating in particular that any new employment terms or response to industrial action must be agreed by them.

Which is why it is so duplicitous for the government to claim they're not the employer. Well no, they're not, in the same way that Network Rail Infrastructure Ltd is technically a private limited company. That just so happens to be owned by the Secretary of State!

 

[Need2]

The high rate of inflation is disproportionately affecting lower earners because they tend to have less disposable income, and it is unavoidable costs (such as petrol/gas/food) that are rising the most. So a 4% increase, say, but with a minimum increase of £1-2k, would be a fair way of compensating people for the effect that inflation is having on their ability to buy goods and services.


95% of National Rail drivers are part of ASLEF, who are not striking yet at most TOCs (although they are balloting now). The disruption has been caused by RMT members going on strike - notably, these comprise a vast percentage of signallers. So the lines that are open are generally being staffed by non-RMT signallers, or contingency staff.


The concept of cash compensation for delays is well established in every other part of the transport industry and it would be very disappointing to see a retrograde step in this regard. Vouchers for inconvenience are, to many people, the ultimate fob-off.

What you were saying regarding pay increases getting less the more you earn is fundamentally wrong!
You are saying that if you earn more then any increase you get should be less (% age wise) than someone else.
For christs sake we already pay more tax than someone on a lesser wage!

 

[Gems]

What you were saying regarding pay increases getting less the more you earn is fundamentally wrong!
You are saying that if you earn more then any increase you get should be less (% age wise) than someone else.
For christs sake we already pay more tax than someone on a lesser wage!

Yes but you only pay 40% of the extra your higher real terms percentage gives you.

 

[cambsy]

Gems, im still against the strike, and wont budge on this, I think Mick Lynch is as bad as Shapps, and led the union members, down a dark and
dangerous hole, over this strike, they will shoot themselves massively in the foot, and will alienate the public massively too.

 

[jon0844]

In the days leading up to this strike, people here were falling over themselves to condemn the strike for disrupting vast swathes of working people. Now I'm seeing people claim that it hasn't disrupted people, which proves the railway is irrelevant and therefore the strike has failed. Which is it?

As with previous strikes, people will have stayed home. Some will be easily able to work from home (and trains were busier last week, suggesting people opted to go to the office all five days so they could have some more days at home this week) and some will take annual leave.

If the strikes drag on, the annual leave option isn't going to be practical.

The roads were also much busier today and a lot of people had clearly dusted off their bikes. I expect buses were busier too.

 

[mrmartin]

Regardless of the rights and wrongs, I think it is extremely unlikely the unions will achieve much more than the current offer, even at the cost of major ongoing distruption (for months). If the government concedes to a higher rate, it will be carte blanche for every public sector union to strike to get the same rate, costing probably 50x the cost of the railway pay rise. Basically - whatever settlement they get I think will be the public sector pay rise for the coming months/year. It's way larger than the railway itself.

Furthermore the longer the strike goes on the more likely the government is to push anti-strike legislation on the railways, permanently damaging the unions negotiating power in the future.

The pressure from the public is clearly going to be much lower with WFH normalised now. Previously in BR days they'd be getting it massively in the ear because all the journalists etc on fleet street were massively personally affected; this won't happen to the same degree now.

 

[Gems]

Gems, im still against the strike, and wont budge on this, I think Mick Lynch is as bad as Shapps, and led the union members, down a dark and
dangerous hole, over this strike, they will shoot themselves massively in the foot, and will alienate the public massively too.

Absolutely fine. I'm not on strike either because I dropped out of the RMT years ago. But the government are still liars, and me being the fair minded type will try and see both sides of the coin.
I think the timing is wrong also. But when is a time ever right? But the point is this, even I am worried about a pension grab. I have paid into that for well over 20 years, and now this bunch of spivs want to destroy it just so they can make up for their mishandling of the economy. So yeah. I disagree to a point, but even I am swinging like a pendulum over that issue. I will never rule out ever joining in the fun.

 

[Watershed]

What you were saying regarding pay increases getting less the more you earn is fundamentally wrong!
You are saying that if you earn more then any increase you get should be less (% age wise) than someone else.

Yes. Because your personal inflation rate will be likely to be a lot lower than that of someone on half your pay.

For christs sake we already pay more tax than someone on a lesser wage!

Your marginal rate is 10% higher, yes. Whilst no doubt a little painful, you can't expect pay increases to be so high as to result in the same income after inflation and tax. That would mean near 20% pay increases for higher rate earners - which I think even the unions would admit is a non-starter.

 

[the sniper]

talks of 15% pay rises are lunacy.

Are you the lunatic then? I don't think anybody expects that'll be given.

In the context of soaring inflation and with a ton of productivity clauses added in, it's really poor.

Utterly ridiculous, more like. Anybody who thinks that those productivity clauses have been fairly priced are only indicative of how badly the wider population have been conditioned into accepting bonfires of T&Cs...

 

[Watershed]

I think the timing is wrong also. But when is a time ever right? But the point is this, even I am worried about a pension grab. I have paid into that for well over 20 years, and now this bunch of spivs want to destroy it just so they can make up for their mishandling of the economy. So yeah. I disagree to a point, but even I am swinging like a pendulum over that issue. I will never rule out ever joining in the fun.

Whilst the proposed change is quite detrimental, it only applies to what you accrue going forwards, and doesn't affect you at all if you are 'protected' (i.e. joined the industry before 5 November 1993).

 

[baz962]

Are you the lunatic then? I don't think anybody expects that'll be given.



Utterly ridiculous. Anybody who thinks that those productivity clauses have been fairly priced are only indicative of how badly the wider population have been conditioned into accepting bonfires of T&Cs...

Didn't that productivity clause have an extra five hours a week. Am I doing my math wrong , as I was thinking say a lower grade signaller is on 30k and gets 3%. That is £900 a year and that works out at £3.50 an hour for each of the extra five hours.

 

[Gems]

Whilst the proposed change is quite detrimental, it only applies to what you accrue going forwards, and doesn't affect you at all if you are 'protected' (i.e. joined the industry before 5 November 1993).

One of the biggest assaults on the working class was the endless attacks on pensions. Pensions are my red line in the sand.

 

[Mike Machin]

The days of an ever-expanding railway are over. If the unions are not careful, this strike will hasten a big contraction of the system and services and could in a worse case scenario bring about its virtual demise.

The NUM now has fewer than 100 members to represent a workforce of near zero. This could easily be the future of our railways, with the only stations with any sort of service being on our voluntee-run heritage lines.

The pre-COVID world has gone and is as much a part of history as the Victorian age. The railway network needs a drastic programme of cost-reductions using as much technology as possible to reduce costs and reflect the cold economic reality of the new world.

 

[Gems]

The days of an ever-expanding railway are over. If the unions are not careful, this strike will hasten a big contraction of the system and services and could in a worse case scenario bring about its virtual demise.

The NUM now has fewer than 100 members to represent a workforce of near zero. This could easily be the future of our railways, with the only stations with any sort of service being on our voluntee-run heritage lines.

The pre-COVID world has gone and is as much a part of history as the Victorian age. The railway network needs a drastic programme of cost-reductions using as much technology as possible to reduce costs and reflect the cold economic reality of the new world.

Sounds like something out of the letters page of the Tory Telegraph.

 

[Need2]

Yes but you only pay 40% of the extra your higher real terms percentage gives you.

It doesn’t matter if you ‘only pay 40%’ more on ……………..
We still pay more so why the hell should I get less if a rise?

Edit: I’m not saying I deserve a huge rise or anyone else should but, when you take into account inflation (ok, hopefully temporarily high but who knows) that Pratt Putin, gas and electric increases and because I earn over a certain amount, my NI contributions have increased, I also pay more income tax
Yet I should not get a pay rise at all because I earn over £60k.
Utterly preposterous!

 

[the sniper]

Sounds like something out of the letters page of the Tory Telegraph.

Or like every other page of this thread when someone new comes, shaking their dusty copy of the Serpell report and reminding us not to forget the NUM, as if that were possible here...

 

[Walter Whigham]

Apparently there is already a significant black hole in wee crankie finances. This isn't going to improve matters.

To be precise, Sturgeon's financial deficit is £3.5 billion. On top of that she has just been told that she needs to find another £1.5 billion to upgrade the CalMac fleet which is subject to at least one major breakdown each week.