Rail strikes discussion

[Falcon1200]

Today's pensioners are the most affluent in history thanks largely to ballooning housing prices.
The grey rinse brigade keep this lot in power. You expect the working young to provide you with increased pension pots whilst happily criticising them for asking for a pay rise. The older generation have no shame.

Complete and utter twaddle: what benefit is getting more for your house when the one you buy costs more as well ? And when I bought mine I had to use every penny of my savings, and still struggled.

Also, as my only income for the next 5 years is my work pension (which increased by 3% this year, not 11%) I do not expect the working young to support me. Of course, when I reach state pension age I will, just as I supported pensioners through the tax I paid while working , and as today's workers will when they retire.

BTW today's workers certainly do deserve a pay rise but it has to be realistic, 2% is a paltry offer but 10 or 11% is unachievable.

 

[Shrop]

Today's pensioners are the most affluent in history thanks largely to ballooning housing prices.
The grey rinse brigade keep this lot in power. You expect the working young to provide you with increased pension pots whilst happily criticising them for asking for a pay rise. The older generation have no shame.

More rubbish. Yes, some pensioners wallow in their affluence, I despair of them as much as anyone, but it is NOT reasonable to generalise. When I started school we had a house with no electricity and no running water, I wonder how people today could cope with that, but we did, and there are many other Pythonesque "We had it tough" things i could add. Holidays were a week in the UK once a year, not jetting off abroad just for stag and hen parties, but no, I would hold back on assuming that ALL youngsters do that, or that they're ALL loud and disruptive on flights, because it is NOT REASONABLE TO GENERALISE.

Many youngsters are lovely, lively, hard working considerate people. In fact quite similar to how a lot of pensioners were in their younger years, just living in different times. As for houses, I didn't expect a right to buy a house on my wages, I did it by spending many years tolerating having lodgers in my own house in order to help to pay the mortgage. I would have liked a job on the railways as it was what I really wanted to do, and it better paid than the job I took too, but there was so much post-Beeching re-deployment going on in the 1970s that it was just too difficult for many to get into the industry.

I repeat, yes some pensioners might be greedy, but a whole lot of people are thinking that rail workers are greedy when compared to care workers (for example). If care workers were to adopt the strike attitude as some have suggested, then what would those rail workers who need urgent hospital care for themselves or family members, have to say about being abandoned to their own devices?

The situations are different, this should be recognised, but it's wrong and unfair to generalise. I have some sympathy with rail workers, but I have to say it's limited when so many workers in other sectors are cutting back on their luxuries and accepting that the Pandemic and Ukraine situations have inevitable adverse consequences which affect us all.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Are you seriously suggesting that Care WOrkers would walk out of a Nursing Home and leave the old people to die? Or are you suggesting that they can carry on working and the RMT will act as Proxy for other sectors and strike on their behalf? I am not sure which scenario is more disturbing or bizarre.

Probably. See this:

Bristol care home nurses to strike over pay proposals | Nursing Times

Nurses and other care home workers employed by a Bristol-based company are set to go on strike later this month over pay. Registered nurses are among 100

www.nursingtimes.net

Nurses and other care home workers employed by a Bristol-based company are set to go on strike later this month over pay.
Registered nurses are among 100 staff at the four care homes run by charity St Monica Trust who were threatened with the sack if they did not accept “inferior” new contracts, according to a report from the union Unison.

 

[matacaster]

This. Pensioners in 2022 are some of the most well off in society. Its not like the 70s. Now they all own the homes they bought for a few grand , and many are very comfortable. They stayed safely at home during covid whilst key workers had to go out and put our lives on the line. The younger generation can only dream of home ownership etc, and yet there are many that begrudge working people a small payrise??? Its unbelievable frankly. If Boris can afford 10 percent for pensioners then 5 percent for working people with no strings should be a given.

Whilst it is undoubtedly true many pensioners do own their houses and have savings, there are also a lot of pensioners who rent, have no savings and for whom life is a constant struggle.

 

[moleman212]

He has plenty to lose. The government thinks it has a nice clean ideological fight with the railway, but passengers won't be willing to "stay the course" for long. The government will get more of the blame from passengers for as long as this goes on.

Ken Clarke admitted as much on the BBC live news feed yesterday.

Passengers will likely blame the rail workers. Ken Clarke is hardly going to endorse anything from Boris

 

[ar10642]

Whilst it is undoubtedly true many pensioners do own their houses and have savings, there are also a lot of pensioners who rent, have no savings and for whom life is a constant struggle.

There are fewer of those at the present time than ever before. I say at the present time because a lot of the current working generation can't afford to buy properties and are handing the current pensioners thousands of pounds in rent a month. I don't support this strike but handing 10%+ to asset rich pensioners no questions asked whilst everyone working gets nothing and pays them rent every month has got my back up.

 

[moleman212]

They should Unionise &demand things of the politicians. The RMT exists for its members, we fund it. We can lead by example but we cannot do it for anyone else. They have to do the hard yards. All we promise is that they won't do it alone.

Until your job becomes obsolete... Like I said, no one is locking you in your signal box to do the job. Leave if you don't like it

 

[Class 466]

Passengers will likely blame the rail workers. Ken Clarke is hardly going to endorse anything from Boris

That's not what I've experienced first hand. Most people understand why RMT members are striking especially when they learn that it's not just about pay as the media would have everyone believe.

 

[matacaster]

Today's pensioners are the most affluent in history thanks largely to ballooning housing prices.
The grey rinse brigade keep this lot in power. You expect the working young to provide you with increased pension pots whilst happily criticising them for asking for a pay rise. The older generation have no shame.

If you live in the big house you bought many years ago, that comes with heavy costs. Sure, you may be comparatively rich, but most, perhaps all of your capital is actually tied up in your house and that capital doesn't pay the bills. So to realise that wealth you either have to do a crappy equity release or sell your house and move somewhere smaller. Both the latter affect your heirs who might actually be some of your comparatively poor young working people. Also just like the poor in Tower hamlets, you might feel you need your local support network.

 

[Gems]

Probably. See this:

Bristol care home nurses to strike over pay proposals | Nursing Times

Nurses and other care home workers employed by a Bristol-based company are set to go on strike later this month over pay. Registered nurses are among 100

www.nursingtimes.net

Nurses and other care home workers employed by a Bristol-based company are set to go on strike later this month over pay.
Registered nurses are among 100 staff at the four care homes run by charity St Monica Trust who were threatened with the sack if they did not accept “inferior” new contracts, according to a report from the union Unison.

It's all part of Johnsons high wage economy. Please don't tell me it was all a fantasy. Doesn't take long for the selfish to forget the lessons of 2020 does it.
I wonder who he will blame for the coming inflationary fare rises, we'll he can't blame the workers can he? Sure somebody will appear on here when they are announced and try.

 

[WelshBluebird]

For all the (IMO unjustified) hate unions seem to get these days, Mick Lynch has done a fantastic job with the media over the last day or two. Staying calm when Tory politicians and reporters get flustered and raise their voices, calling out lies and misplaced insinuations and generally coming across as a pretty damn reasonable.

 

[najaB]

Apologies if this was discussed already, I had a look and didn't find it. There's an article in the Telegraph with the headline "Archaic rail rules mean it takes nine workers to 'change a plug socket'".

I assume it's the usual pro-Tory, anti-Union bull, but I'm unwilling to subscribe to find out what it is they're talking about. Does anyone either subscribe or have an idea what rules they're talking about?

Link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...s-mean-takes-nine-workers-change-plug-socket/

 

[Falcon1200]

Lots of 'wrong route offered and accepted' or 'routed incorrectly' etc etc

Are the managers still working the boxes today? I ask because 1M08 0737 Glasgow C-Euston departed Preston 20 minutes late, having followed an early running freight from north of Carnforth to Oxheys, despite several opportunities to loop the freight sooner.

 

[sor]

Whilst it is undoubtedly true many pensioners do own their houses and have savings, there are also a lot of pensioners who rent, have no savings and for whom life is a constant struggle.

Which is probably why an enhanced pension should be means tested. It's hard to stomach the idea of giving even more money to those with excellent private pensions and paid off (cheap) houses, while the gov demonises other benefits claimants and suggests that the rest of us (except bankers) shouldn't get a payrise

Nothing says it more than the outrage over the abolition of the over 75s free TV licence, which was retained for the less well off (ie those who get pension credit) but it didn't stop the "haves" with plenty of disposable income complaining about it.

Absolute twaddle, when I bought my home 'for a few grand' my salary, believe it or not, was equally as low, I was paying around 16% interest on my mortgage and coping with double figure inflation and double figure unemployment, if the Government give me a 10% increase on my state pension that will be less than £800 per year, whoopee, that'll be bingo time for me won't it? maybe I'll go off abroad on holiday, something I couldn't afford when paying my mortgage or buy a new car, something I couldn't afford when paying my mortgage, maybe they'll give rail staff an £800 per year increase to keep up with us cash rich pensioners then, does that sound good? As you've mentioned covid should I in turn mention that many of the supermarket staff etc that I came across were of pension age who were keeping shops open not staying 'safely at home'

16% on a much smaller number (and %age of income) will certainly sting, but on today's overinflated prices it would lead to mass repossessions, which is probably why the BoE has been petrified of raising rates to even a percent or two or more, even though the Fed is happier to do so. How long were rates at 16%? The BoE history page suggests it got up there in the early 80s but soon started to calm down again.

Today's young people aren't all endlessly going on holiday or buying new cars either - they're chasing ever unaffordable prices (average prices increasing by greater amounts than many have earnt in the same year), have already fallen into the salary multiple gap (even when they earn the sorts of numbers the government is presently using in its PR war on rail staff) despite having a considerable deposit, and what isn't going into savings is probably going into someone else's back pocket in rent or into some defined contribution pension scheme that might pay £100 a year if you're lucky

 

[Ivor]

This. Pensioners in 2022 are some of the most well off in society. Its not like the 70s. Now they all own the homes they bought for a few grand , and many are very comfortable. They stayed safely at home during covid whilst key workers had to go out and put our lives on the line. The younger generation can only dream of home ownership etc, and yet there are many that begrudge working people a small payrise??? Its unbelievable frankly. If Boris can afford 10 percent for pensioners then 5 percent for working people with no strings should be a given.

I’m one of those “well off pensioners” who is a railway agency worker of 4 years plus still more often than not working on my own as litter picker, toilet cleaner, CSA & expected to be ‘The Equalizer’ to deal with ASB, drug dealing etc with TOC management not giving a hoot when assaulted (not alone on this) all for just over ten quid an hour gross. Yep can’t complain.

Government stopped triple lock, pushed my wife’s pension back from 60 to 66

Am I bitter? I wasn’t until I saw some of the comments here this morning & I’ve posted this week on this site my full support for rail workers employment package not being eroded.

By the way my shifts & colleague shifts have been cancelled this week, why? because with the strike there isn’t enough work for us.

Currently now looking for work because this pensioner is not living in the lap of luxury & who knows if industrial action continues where the next shift will come from?

And yes we worked through Covid too as key workers like you & as you state “put our lives on the line” again like you but like all key workers got on with it.

PAYE rail workers get the best package & assurances you can & I mean that but look back down the ladder occasionally.

Whilst it is undoubtedly true many pensioners do own their houses and have savings, there are also a lot of pensioners who rent, have no savings and for whom life is a constant struggle.

Thank you, someone who sees the bigger picture

 

[SuperNova]

Absolute twaddle, when I bought my home 'for a few grand' my salary, believe it or not, was equally as low, I was paying around 16% interest on my mortgage and coping with double figure inflation and double figure unemployment, if the Government give me a 10% increase on my state pension that will be less than £800 per year, whoopee, that'll be bingo time for me won't it? maybe I'll go off abroad on holiday, something I couldn't afford when paying my mortgage or buy a new car, something I couldn't afford when paying my mortgage, maybe they'll give rail staff an £800 per year increase to keep up with us cash rich pensioners then, does that sound good? As you've mentioned covid should I in turn mention that many of the supermarket staff etc that I came across were of pension age who were keeping shops open not staying 'safely at home'

No it wasn't. Average house prices 50 years ago were £4000 and the average wage was £1800. Now the average house price in England is £298,000 and the average wage is £31k (25k is the median). Not to mention the deposit needed, when you have rent to pay, which because of private renters is absolutely extortionate! In fact a mortgage in the house I am currently sitting in would be £150 a month cheaper than renting. Fact of the matter is the younger, working, generation have it a hell of a lot worse off (as is evidenced) and we have to deal with lazy tropes about spending money on coffee, avacado on toast, netflix and phone contracts by an out of touch generation of people who haven't got a clue.

And many of the supermarket staff I came across were younger people, some of which had lost income from other jobs and needed to pay their bills.

Sir keir who? Always hiding, hardly ever clearly stating his position and when he does his shadow cabinet promptly go their own diametrically opposite way. He has no authority and darent upset his left or right people.

Plainly obvious that the right wing press, at the behest of CCHQ, want to paint Starmer in a certain light. Sitting on the fence is the best option for now (see today's Dail Mail front page blaming Labour) especially as there are two massive by-elections tomorrow.

For all the (IMO unjustified) hate unions seem to get these days, Mick Lynch has done a fantastic job with the media over the last day or two. Staying calm when Tory politicians and reporters get flustered and raise their voices, calling out lies and misplaced insinuations and generally coming across as a pretty damn reasonable.

Agreed. His displays against Burley on Sky News and the lying Tory MPs on the Beeb were brilliant. Would love a Ros Atkins piece on the strikes, because some of his colleagues might then understand them!

 

[Greg13]

Apologies if this was discussed already, I had a look and didn't find it. There's an article in the Telegraph with the headline "Archaic rail rules mean it takes nine workers to 'change a plug socket'".

I assume it's the usual pro-Tory, anti-Union bull, but I'm unwilling to subscribe to find out what it is they're talking about. Does anyone either subscribe or have an idea what rules they're talking about?

Link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...s-mean-takes-nine-workers-change-plug-socket/

“We can’t roster individuals,” said one industry source. “Let’s imagine you want to change a single socket to a double in your kitchen. “Potentially you’d need an electrician, a tiler and a plumber as your dishwasher waste pipe will need adjusting too.

Alternatively, you could find a competent odd-jobber to do the whole task.

“In Network Rail we can’t roster individuals, only teams and we can’t multi-skill those teams so we’d need to send a team of three electricians, three tilers and three plumbers – nine people to do a job one person could do."

 

[lammergeier]

For all the (IMO unjustified) hate unions seem to get these days, Mick Lynch has done a fantastic job with the media over the last day or two. Staying calm when Tory politicians and reporters get flustered and raise their voices, calling out lies and misplaced insinuations and generally coming across as a pretty damn reasonable.

I agree - his interview with Kay Burley yesterday was a masterclass in remaining calm in the face of absurd questioning. Just quietly standing aside to show a nice, calm picket line when Burley started insinuating we were at the cusp of another Orgreave was perfect.

 

[Ashley Hill]

The Associated Train Crew Union (ACTU) are I believe still active but do not appear to have made any statements regarding this strike. Is anyone here aware of their position on this situation?

 

[OuterDistant]

Just looked up Mick Lynch with (the ever useless) Kay Burley, and it's comedy gold

Great to see after years of those RMT press releases!

 

[WelshBluebird]

I agree - his interview with Kay Burley yesterday was a masterclass in remaining calm in the face of absurd questioning. Just quietly standing aside to show a nice, calm picket line when Burley started insinuating we were at the cusp of another Orgreave was perfect.

Of course the irony is that the establishment (government and police) weren't exactly innocent at Orgreave!

 

[dk1]

Just overheard Merseyrail been offered 7.1% .

 

[KendalR]

Apologies if this was discussed already, I had a look and didn't find it. There's an article in the Telegraph with the headline "Archaic rail rules mean it takes nine workers to 'change a plug socket'".

I assume it's the usual pro-Tory, anti-Union bull, but I'm unwilling to subscribe to find out what it is they're talking about. Does anyone either subscribe or have an idea what rules they're talking about?

Link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...s-mean-takes-nine-workers-change-plug-socket/

You can read it for yourself:

Archaic rail rules mean it takes nine workers to 'change a plug socket'

RMT accused of calling strike to defend host of outdated practices

web.archive.org

A load of tory rag nonsense. I had our network rail property dept round to change an electric wall heater a few months ago. Two workers.

 

[lammergeier]

This doesn't bode well for ticket price increases for 2023.

And I bet they will use the opportunity to blame the staff for the increase as well

 

[TwoYellas]

I stress and worry about everything. That’s just who I am. Thanks for the post though, I appreciate it. I’m still going to stress and worry until the mortgage is paid off. God I can’t wait to be 60ish.

Cut out sugar, beer, junk. Drink plenty of water, clean diet, 5 a day. Exercise; could just be circuit training at home 45 - 60 minutes a few times a week. You will stop wishing yourself into a golden oldie and become mentally stronger.

I'm not perfect but I'm trying to stick to the above and it keeps me calmer, focused and in a good mood. If you want any advice just ask mate.

As for the strike, I'm all for the little people
So solidarity from me. I hope more and more workers, in all fields, especially in low paid jobs become unionised. A counter balance is urgently required to this current inhumane regime in charge!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just looked up Mick Lynch with (the ever useless) Kay Burley, and it's comedy gold

Great to see after years of those RMT press releases!

Just watched this. Mick Lynch clearly stated that "every single ticket office" was going to close. I was not aware that the closures included those ticket offices at very large railway stations or places like Manchester Airport railway station.

As for the strike, I'm all for the little people

National Union of Umpah-Lumpahs, Leprechauns and Elves?

 

[najaB]

You can read it for yourself:

Archaic rail rules mean it takes nine workers to 'change a plug socket'

RMT accused of calling strike to defend host of outdated practices

web.archive.org

A load of tory rag nonsense. I had our network rail property dept round to change an electric wall heater a few months ago. Two workers.

Ah, thanks. I never remember that Web Archive indexes The Telegraph.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just overheard Merseyrail been offered 7.1% .

As in guards? Interesting, as they aren't even striking!

If they can get that without striking then I guess the RMT are going to push for more. I'd expected a settlement around 5% myself.

 

[BrokenSam]

Today has been a nightmare for me in the job that I do. I rely on the railways every working day. However, I believe that 2-4% should be accepted by the unions because otherwise all other public sector (including myself) will want the same deal as what the RMT get. It won't happen simply because of this question, where is all this new money coming from?

There isn't enough to go around as it is, and sadly, the railway is not an exception to the rule.

Isn't enough to go round yet this country has never had more billionaires.

 

[SignallerJohn]

Until your job becomes obsolete... Like I said, no one is locking you in your signal box to do the job. Leave if you don't like it

I read this thread sporadically and more than once you’ve got upset about people wanting their great jobs to be even better.

The job is fantastic, but that doesn’t mean we don’t want it to better. Stop being a gremlin.