Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Mickcloud9]

Return the 275 and add an extra bus to ease time pressures and previous reliability issues.
An actual express from Bathgate - Livingston - Edinburgh Regent Road

 

[stevenedin]

Return the 275 and add an extra bus to ease time pressures and previous reliability issues.
An actual express from Bathgate - Livingston - Edinburgh Regent Road

Is that not already the X25?

 

[Mickcloud9]

Is that not already the X25?

That would be a First service. I’m meaning one that only serves the town centres, gyle centre and direct to princes street

 

[stevenedin]

That would be a First service. I’m meaning one that only serves the town centres, gyle centre and direct to princes street

I remember in around 2007/2008 time First tried to introduce a shopper link between Livingston Centre to Edinburgh City Centre X9 and X11 they were pretty much direct the X9 went via Sighthill and Gorgie the X11 went via Broxburn and Corstorphine from what I can remember or maybe it was along the M8 to Gogar I can’t remember.

It didn’t take off due to people using the services they already know but maybe if Lothian country tried something similar they may be successful.

 

[Mickcloud9]

Could work both ways for folk who travel to Livingston/Bathgate from Edinburgh. The X18/27/28 are busy with folk coming from the city to work out in Livingston and beyond as well as folk travelling from West Lothian into the city. Also a lot of folk come from Edinburgh to the Centre. With the TAP TAP CAP it could be half decent if given a chance to bed in. They change routes too often out in West Lothian and it really frustrates the passengers. I spent 20 minutes getting earache from a lady the other week because the 275 is off and the 276 only serves part of Wester Inch. Felt heart sorry for her aswell as she wasn’t the best at walking and I had to drop her at Simpson Avenue. She stays at Leyland Road. I know the commercial team are trying to make the routes profitable but I defo think they were too hasty in axing the 275. They should’ve left them as they were excluding the Vaccine Centre. Maybe extend the 276 to Fauldhouse.

 

[CN04NRJ]

South Queensferry to wallyford via the airport and all the various park and ride sites off the bypass, operating mostly on the bypass using a suitably powerful and speedy vehicle for the times when it's flowing well. Serving places like tram stops and railway stations as well as musselburgh town centre.

Why on earth would anyone want to make those journeys? Any commercial Lothian service using the bypass is a non-starter.

 

[overthewater]

Of course the Bypass idea is the Edinburgh Orbital Bus route, which has been on the council books for what 15 years? The best bet is for Lothian to win the West Lothian Tender 40 linking St Johns to royal infirmary which would allow ridercards passengers to use the service and make connections.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Heriot and Stow have been in the Borders since 1975. Before then, they were both in Midlothian. AFAIK, other than a shoppers’ contract when the Gyle Centre opened in 1993 Lothian and LRT beforehand have never served the Borders.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2022 ==


If any of these suggestions were ever implemented then the company would be bankrupt in next to no time.

You'll know better than me but didn't LRT run to somewhere like Peebles shortly after deregulation? I thought Peebles was printed as an option on some destination blinds, but I could be getting mixed up.

 

[DunsBus]

You'll know better than me but didn't LRT run to somewhere like Peebles shortly after deregulation? I thought Peebles was printed as an option on some destination blinds, but I could be getting mixed up.

Peebles was on the blinds, you're correct, but as far as I know LRT never ran to there.

 

[Mal]

Peebles was on the blinds, you're correct, but as far as I know LRT never ran to there.

I have a Lothian Main manual destination Blind dated July 2003 with Peebles as display 128 between 'Outer Circle' and 'Pencaitland'.

 

[DunsBus]

I have a Lothian Main manual destination Blind dated July 2003 with Peebles as display 128 between 'Outer Circle' and 'Pencaitland'.

I had one of those blinds too. I'm pretty sure that Peebles was also on the blinds on the later Tridents and the early B7TLs.

 

[LiviCrazy]

Saw a Lothian/ex-Lothian Gemini pulling into Glendoick between Perth and Dundee today at around 3:45.

Not sure what generation of Gemini it was as I was going past on A90 at the time but was quite surprised to see it up there.

I assume it was an ex-Lothian? Anybody up that direction running ex-Lothians?

 

[computerSaysNo]

Saw a Lothian/ex-Lothian Gemini pulling into Glendoick between Perth and Dundee today at around 3:45.

Not sure what generation of Gemini it was as I was going past on A90 at the time but was quite surprised to see it up there.

I assume it was an ex-Lothian? Anybody up that direction running ex-Lothians?

I know one of the farms in that area has/had a B7RLE/Eclipse Urban (1), I remember seeing it last year. Was it a double-decker that you saw though?

While I'm here, a quick (maybe) question about gearboxes.
The B8R(LE) is available with gearboxes containing 4 (Voith D864.6), 6 (ZF 6AP1420C) or 12 (Volvo iShift AT2412F) gears. I assumed that the 4-gear box in particular was better if the vehicle was to be used in a City environment all its life, as by removing the "cruise" gears from the box a good weight saving could be made therefore fuel economy at lower speeds would be improved.
This doesn't seem to be the case though as the Voith box weighs 340kg, 60kg more than the Volvo box. This being the case, what is the attraction to operators of a box with fewer gears? Doesn't it just limit the vehicle flexibility and lower its resale value?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Saw a Lothian/ex-Lothian Gemini pulling into Glendoick between Perth and Dundee today at around 3:45.

Not sure what generation of Gemini it was as I was going past on A90 at the time but was quite surprised to see it up there.

I assume it was an ex-Lothian? Anybody up that direction running ex-Lothians?

former Gemini B9 852 (SN57DFD) is owned by a farm near perth

 

[stevenedin]

former Gemini B9 852 (SN57DFD) is owned by a farm near perth

Out of curiosity, what would a farm do with a bus other than use for storage?

 

[Lothianbus703]

Saw a Lothian/ex-Lothian Gemini pulling into Glendoick between Perth and Dundee today at around 3:45.

Not sure what generation of Gemini it was as I was going past on A90 at the time but was quite surprised to see it up there.

I assume it was an ex-Lothian? Anybody up that direction running ex-Lothians?

Was it being used on a route? Did it have passengers?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Out of curiosity, what would a farm do with a bus other than use for storage?

Transport goods and/or people to other parts of their site is their primary function, but they do have other benefits too.

Another common example is fruit picking - again mostly transporting people/goods. There’s a whole bunch of 04 plate Eclipses now doing this.

 

[Lothianbus703]

What is the farm called?

 

[LiviCrazy]

Was it being used on a route? Did it have passengers?

Unfortunately couldn’t see, unfortunately I was driving otherwise I’d have got a picture. All I can say is that it was a double decker (Gemini) still in full Lothian livery. Looks like not an easy answer, was hoping there would be something obvious.

Fruit picker would make sense, hell of a lot of fruit farms around that area.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Out of curiosity, what would a farm do with a bus other than use for storage?

They use it for transporting goods and people about their site(s). It's very effective to put 20,000 strawberries on a single bus instead of moving them 100 at a time.

Another common example is fruit picking - again mostly transporting people/goods. There’s a whole bunch of 04 plate Eclipses now doing this.

Yes, most of former Lothian 123-130 are on a farm down south.

Unfortunately couldn’t see, unfortunately I was driving otherwise I’d have got a picture. All I can say is that it was a double decker (Gemini) still in full Lothian livery. Looks like not an easy answer, was hoping there would be something obvious.

Fruit picker would make sense, hell of a lot of fruit farms around that area.

It more than likely was 852, as that's the only Lothian decker in that area. It resides on a farm with a former First Leeds B7TL.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Sorry again but what's happening with fleet/route allocations at the moment? There was a while where everything was stable and seemed to be working well (which is what I remember, see below) but using the history function of lvf.io today to look at the past week, the allocations seem to have all changed? Like the 37 was completely XLBs for ages but lvf.io is saying it was mostly B5/E400s last week? And the 25 was completely B5/E400s for ages but lvf.io is saying is was mostly hybrids and Zoo B5s last week?

Spoiler: table of services and what I remember them being previously allocated.

Spoiler

Route	Previous allocation	New allocation/changes
1	S/d but sometimes d/d. Usually 7900s.
2	S/d but sometimes d/d. Usually 7900s.
3	D/d B5/E400s.
4	D/d short-wheelbase B9/Gemini 2s.
5	D/d B5/Gemini 2s. Usually 951-960.	D/d short-wheelbase B9/Gemini 2s.
7	D/d B8/E400XLBs.
8	D/d B5/Gemini 3s. Usually 1051-1062.	B9/Gemini 2s.
10	D/d B9/Gemini 3s.
11	D/d B8/E400XLBs.
12	S/d but sometimes d/d. Usually 7900s.
14	D/d.
15	D/d B9/Gemini 3s.	Seems to be randomly allocated short B9s, long B9s, B5s and B8s?
16	D/d B8/E400XLBs.
19	D/d.
21	D/d B5/E400s.
22	D/d B5/Gemini 3s, usually 441-465.
23	D/d E400EVs.
24	D/d B9/Gemini 3s.
25	D/d B5/E400s.	Seems to be hybrids and Zoo B5s?
26	D/d B5/Gemini 3s. Usually 466-495.
27	D/d B8/E400XLBs.	Seems to be mostly B5s 1051-1062?
29	D/d.
30	S/d B8/Evora's.
31	D/d B8/E400XLBs.	Seems to be mostly B5s 441-465?
33	D/d.
34	D/d B5H/Gemini 3s.
35	D/d B5H/Gemini 3s.
36	S/d.
37	D/d B8/E400XLBs.	Seems to be mostly B5s 426-437 and B5/E400s?
38	S/d.
41	D/d.
42	S/d 7900s.
44	D/d B5/E400s.
45	S/d but sometimes d/d. Usually 7900s.	Seems to be fairly random but with a lot of B9s?
47	D/d.	B8/E400XLBs?
48	D/d.	Seems to be mainly short-wheelbase B9s?
49	D/d.	B5/Gemini 3s mostly 401-425?

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Sorry again but what's happening with fleet/route allocations at the moment? There was a while where everything was stable and seemed to be working well (which is what I remember, see below) but using the history function of lvf.io today to look at the past week, the allocations seem to have all changed? Like the 37 was completely XLBs for ages but lvf.io is saying it was mostly B5/E400s last week? And the 25 was completely B5/E400s for ages but lvf.io is saying is was mostly hybrids and Zoo B5s last week?

Spoiler: table of services and what I remember them being previously allocated.

Spoiler

Route	Previous allocation	New allocation/changes
1	S/d but sometimes d/d. Usually 7900s.
2	S/d but sometimes d/d. Usually 7900s.
3	D/d B5/E400s.
4	D/d short-wheelbase B9/Gemini 2s.
5	D/d B5/Gemini 2s. Usually 951-960.	D/d short-wheelbase B9/Gemini 2s.
7	D/d B8/E400XLBs.
8	D/d B5/Gemini 3s. Usually 1051-1062.	B9/Gemini 2s.
10	D/d B9/Gemini 3s.
11	D/d B8/E400XLBs.
12	S/d but sometimes d/d. Usually 7900s.
14	D/d.
15	D/d B9/Gemini 3s.	Seems to be randomly allocated short B9s, long B9s, B5s and B8s?
16	D/d B8/E400XLBs.
19	D/d.
21	D/d B5/E400s.
22	D/d B5/Gemini 3s, usually 441-465.
23	D/d E400EVs.
24	D/d B9/Gemini 3s.
25	D/d B5/E400s.	Seems to be hybrids and Zoo B5s?
26	D/d B5/Gemini 3s. Usually 466-495.
27	D/d B8/E400XLBs.	Seems to be mostly B5s 1051-1062?
29	D/d.
30	S/d B8/Evora's.
31	D/d B8/E400XLBs.	Seems to be mostly B5s 441-465?
33	D/d.
34	D/d B5H/Gemini 3s.
35	D/d B5H/Gemini 3s.
36	S/d.
37	D/d B8/E400XLBs.	Seems to be mostly B5s 426-437 and B5/E400s?
38	S/d.
41	D/d.
42	S/d 7900s.
44	D/d B5/E400s.
45	S/d but sometimes d/d. Usually 7900s.	Seems to be fairly random but with a lot of B9s?
47	D/d.	B8/E400XLBs?
48	D/d.	Seems to be mainly short-wheelbase B9s?
49	D/d.	B5/Gemini 3s mostly 401-425?

The allocations changed at the recent timetable change. It was discussed on here a few pages back.

In short XLB'S are no longer on the 31 and 37 and are now on the 47.

The 33 and 25 have effectively swapped the style of buses. Marine are allocating Zoo buses to the 25 presumably to keep in line with the main allocation from Longstone.

 

[Bus9120UK]

The allocations changed at the recent timetable change. It was discussed on here a few pages back.

In short XLB'S are no longer on the 31 and 37 and are now on the 47.

The 33 and 25 have effectively swapped the style of buses. Marine are allocating Zoo buses to the 25 presumably to keep in line with the main allocation from Longstone.

31 still operates XLB's on Sundays.

 

[computerSaysNo]

The allocations changed at the recent timetable change. It was discussed on here a few pages back.

In short XLB'S are no longer on the 31 and 37 and are now on the 47.

The 33 and 25 have effectively swapped the style of buses. Marine are allocating Zoo buses to the 25 presumably to keep in line with the main allocation from Longstone.

31 still operates XLB's on Sundays.

Oh ok, I hadn't noticed they'd changed that much that long ago.
Thanks both.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

31 still operates XLB's on Sundays.

True plus 1125 on others days but Sundays don't really reflect the normal allocations on routes.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

True plus 1125 on others days but Sundays don't really reflect the normal allocations on routes.

1125 of late has made a number of appearances on other routes, although still more than often on the 31.

 

[Stef434]

Anyone else heard that Lothian Country are heading back to Longstone and operate from there after government funding has stopped, Deans depot in limbo.
Source: working employee

 

[computerSaysNo]

Anyone else heard that Lothian Country are heading back to Longstone and operate from there after government funding has stopped, Deans depot in limbo.
Source: working employee

I don't think this will happen.
Livingstone garage was set up before the pandemic (i.e. before the government funding was awarded) therefore I would think it likely that it will still remain there after the funding is complete.

 

[ian1944]

Re. Peebles, I'm familiar with bus operations there since 1971 and am sure that Lothian etc never went beyond Penicuik. The only operator apart from SMT and successors was Central SMT to/from Glasgow, subsequently cut back to Hamilton, Lanark (I think) and Biggar, this now with Borders Buses.

 

[Andyh82]

I notice on BusTimes.org that Lothian buses seem to track continuously, not just when they are in service, so tens of buses are shown tracking at the depots.

Do you know what causes this, I’ve not seen it for any other operators, do the ticket machines stay logged in permanently?