Avanti West Coast cancellations

[Wolfie]

Best to just let it go. No point getting all worked up about something that cant be changed now.

As l said previously removing the railways protection from consequential losses would seriously concentrate minds.

 

[dk1]

As l said previously removing the railways protection from consequential losses would seriously concentrate minds.

Doubt that'll ever happen but wouldn't affect staff on the ground if it did.

 

[duncanp]

More on this from the BBC.

The union (ASLEF) is denying that there is unofficial strike action.

As I said earlier, it seems that managment and the unions are fighting it out in the media and online, with the passengers just an afterthought.

Avanti West Coast unofficial strike action claims rejected by union

Avanti West Coast warns of more cancellations but Aslef says that is due to low driver recruitment.

www.bbc.co.uk

Avanti West Coast unofficial strike action claims rejected by union​

A train operator has been criticised by a union for blaming "unofficial strike action" for disruption to its services.
Avanti West Coast said its services were subject to last-minute cancellations until further notice and said it condemned the drivers' actions.
Union Aslef said there was "no strike action - official or unofficial - by train drivers" and said the firm had simply not employed enough drivers.
Some 5,000 union members took planned strike action for 24 hours on Saturday.

More strikes are planned in August by Aslef and the RMT union in the row over pay, jobs and conditions, however Aslef train drivers' union said it was "categorically untrue" to suggest there was ongoing unofficial industrial action.
"The truth is the company [Avanti West Coast] does not employ enough drivers to deliver the services it has promised," a spokesperson said.

When asked by the BBC, Avanti was unable to provide any evidence to support its claims of unofficial strike action.
Drivers at a number of train companies often work rest days which Aslef said operators depend on.
However staff are not obliged to work over their contracted hours.
Operators such as West Midlands Trains have previously spoken about pressures on staffing, particularly after the pandemic delayed new drivers' training, which typically takes a year.
A spokesperson for Avanti said starting from Monday, last-minute cancellations were likely to continue until the industrial dispute had been settled and it urged customers to check their journeys in advance.
The company runs services from London to Glasgow and Edinburgh, with routes to Manchester, Liverpool, North Wales and Birmingham.
"We are sorry for the enormous frustration and inconvenience this will cause our customers and condemn the drivers' actions."

 

[SJN]

More on this from the BBC.

The union (ASLEF) is denying that there is unofficial strike action.

As I said earlier, it seems that managment and the unions are fighting it out in the media and online, with the passengers just an afterthought.

Avanti West Coast unofficial strike action claims rejected by union

Avanti West Coast warns of more cancellations but Aslef says that is due to low driver recruitment.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not really. The company have accused irs drivers on social media of committing a sackable offence. The union have then gone to defend their members as expected as they were concerned it could lead to staff being assaulted.

 

[duncanp]

Not really. The company have accused irs drivers on social media of committing a sackable offence. The union have then gone to defend their members as expected as they were concerned it could lead to staff being assaulted.

I just wish both sides would put as much effort into settling the dispute as they are in conducting the dispute in the first place.

It is the passengers who are suffering, and it seems that no-one cares about them.

 

[Failed Unit]

Re your last para, rather like Ministers who have been in power for a decade plus still trying to blame the last Government, just how long can a TOC continue to blame it's predecessor and when should it start to take responsibility. Was it Virgin's choice to accept a massively reduced emergency timetable and then still fail utterly and completely to deliver it?


I seriously doubt it. He probably wants you all sacked.

Actually I just looked at the franchise start date. 3 years (nearly) should be long enough to know what they can resource. Perhaps even have a plan in place to get well.

As others say. SWR, TPE and Avanti. What is the common factor? The governments due diligence sadly isn’t the best.

 

[yorkie]

It's absolutely clear that all 7 days need to be part of the working week for relevant grades, and all relevant contracts need to be amended to implement this as soon as possible.

 

[D6130]

As others say. SWR, TPE and Avanti. What is the common factor?

The dead hand of Worst Group's piss-poor senior management?

 

[jfollows]

It seems to me that the losers are the passengers/customers at the moment. There's no way I'm going to make a non-essential trip on Avanti at the moment, which in my case is currently all of them, because I can't rely on the advertised service being delivered. I have sympathy with the various groups of staff involved, and little sympathy for Avanti's management which appears inept, but I accept that there are arguments for and against both their positions. Between them they seem to be making what is a pretty bad service even worse.

 

[357]

It's absolutely clear that all 7 days need to be part of the working week for relevant grades, and all relevant contracts need to be amended to implement this as soon as possible.

I'm sure it's part of the ASLEF charter to have Sundays inside the working week wherever possible. However, if TOCs don't want to negotiate this and expect it for free (resulting in a pay cut for said grades) then it's the TOCs problem.

I'll also add that I don't feel the unions need to give much thought to passengers.

Unions are paid by staff, not through any ticketing revenue, to look after the interests of staff. I think they are doing the job they are paid to do superbly.

 

[Failed Unit]

The dead hand of Worst Group's piss-poor senior management?

I do wonder how they get away with it. Northern is now in the operator of last resort. TPE limps on. But if you head over to GTR. Saturday’s seem the worse day to have all diagrams covered. This has not changed since they took over the franchise. This impacts Grant Shapps personally so he does nothing.

expect a franchise extension and no change in service level.

when you look at EMR at least they do generally resource the cut down time table. But it has reduced passenger numbers I won’t use them and sadly need to drive to places that you cant easily get to on other operators.

 

[43066]

It's absolutely clear that all 7 days need to be part of the working week for relevant grades, and all relevant contracts need to be amended to implement this as soon as possible.

It isn’t possible to simply unilaterally amend contracts, much as many people on here seem to think railway staff shouldn’t be subject to normal employment custom and practice. Even putting that aside, as we keep being told, the money isn’t available to pay for the increase in headcount that would require. I say that as someone with Sundays inside my working week.

 

[Pinus contorta]

It is unfortunate from the passengers point of view that the tension is rising and the train cancellations are likely increasing this week just as the service is needed to run more reliably to cater for the increased numbers on the platforms for the Commonwealth Games

 

[yorkie]

It isn’t possible to simply unilaterally amend contracts, much as many people on here seem to think railway staff shouldn’t be subject to normal employment custom and practice. Even putting that aside, as we keep being told, the money isn’t available to pay for the increase in headcount that would require. I say that as someone with Sundays inside my working week.

I am not saying there should be no increase in pay, though any increase needs to be affordable and realistic. Perhaps the same T&Cs as your TOC would do the trick? I don't know what the differences are; perhaps someone can elaborate?

 

[duncanp]

I'll also add that I don't feel the unions need to give much thought to passengers.

Unions are paid by staff, not through any ticketing revenue, to look after the interests of staff. I think they are doing the job they are paid to do superbly.

But it is in the interests of staff to have stable employment prospects with a successful (and preferably profitable) company, as well as having a level of pay that enables them to have a decent standard of living.

The longer this dispute goes on the more people are going to turn away from Avanti.

Eventually that will lead to Avanti being stripped of their franchise, and the operator of last resort may be given a franchise specification that requires fewer services to be run, resulting in fewer vacancies for staff in the long term, and fewer opportunities for additional earnings through overtime and rest day working.

 

[Furrball]

This really is not going to end well is it...

https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1553715911248564226?t=FhOlpRLoVyFqWcUYZV2pFQ&s=19

UNOFFICIAL STRIKES: Passengers using Avanti West services should expect disruption today. Archaic rules from 1919 mean working on rest days is voluntary. Unions now stopping drivers volunteering - causing misery for public & staff who won't get paid. We MUST modernise rail.

 

[43066]

I am not saying there should be no increase in pay, though any increase needs to be affordable and realistic. Perhaps the same T&Cs as your TOC would do the trick? I don't know what the differences are; perhaps someone can elaborate?

We have separate links for Sundays inside/outside, everyone joining the company is automatically opted into the Sundays inside link - that’s fair enough because you know than when you sign up. When it was introduced existing drivers were offered a choice of keeping their Sundays outside, or bringing them in for a pay rise. It works pretty well as a system and Sundays will eventually be inside for everyone, due to retirements/resignations.

For some reason it’s different for TMs - overall a confusing mess!

This really is not going to end well is it...

https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1553715911248564226?t=FhOlpRLoVyFqWcUYZV2pFQ&s=19

UNOFFICIAL STRIKES: Passengers using Avanti West services should expect disruption today. Archaic rules from 1919 mean working on rest days is voluntary. Unions now stopping drivers volunteering - causing misery for public & staff who won't get paid. We MUST modernise rail.

So Grant Shapps thinks working on days off should be mandatory!? Isn’t that basically slavery?

 

[Clarence Yard]

The dead hand of Worst Group's piss-poor senior management?

Give it a rest. WMT, GNTL and others were in the same boat with their franchises. It’s all about what was expected in the bid - optimising train crew. This was quite a thing at the time - the DfT used to argue with the bidders about train crew resource levels, trying to beat them down. If you had too many (in their eyes), you weren’t going to get the gig. It’s a Pete Wilkinson thing. Gone were the days of having minimum resources levels.

COVID reset the franchise clock to total DfT control on spend so at that date if you hadn’t got enough crew, your training had got behind (& then further because of COVID) and you hadn’t got Sunday in the working week, you were going to get stuffed because the DfT weren’t going to allow you to spend your way out of it like GWR were allowed to, pre-COVID, when they were authorised to recruit more crew and up their training.

So the TOCs in this position now are being expected by the DfT to just muddle through. Staff retirements are starting to play into this too - some TOCs are now finding it hard to get authority to recruit.

 

[74A]

So Grant Shapps thinks working on days off should be mandatory!? Isn’t that basically slavery ?

No what he appears to be saying that people who were working extra days appear to have stopped working extra days. And he is blaming the union for unofficial industrial action.

 

[Urobach]

This really is not going to end well is it...

https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1553715911248564226?t=FhOlpRLoVyFqWcUYZV2pFQ&s=19

UNOFFICIAL STRIKES: Passengers using Avanti West services should expect disruption today. Archaic rules from 1919 mean working on rest days is voluntary. Unions now stopping drivers volunteering - causing misery for public & staff who won't get paid. We MUST modernise rail.

Those darn archaic rules where people working their days off is voluntary. What a clown

 

[D1537]

So Grant Shapps thinks working on days off should be mandatory!? Isn’t that basically slavery?

I doubt if much thinking occurs in Grant Shapps' world before his mouth opens.

He's getting a complete kicking on Twitter, btw.

 

[43066]

No what he appears to be saying that people who were working extra days appear to have stopped working extra days. And he is blaming the union for unofficial industrial action.

“Archaic rules from 1919 means working on rest days is voluntary.”

Seems pretty clear to me!

He's getting a complete kicking on Twitter, btw.

I’m pleased to hear it. He’s a truly nasty piece of work.

 

[nedchester]

We have separate links for Sundays inside/outside, everyone joining the company is automatically opted into the Sundays inside link - that’s fair enough because you know than when you sign up. When it was introduced existing drivers were offered a choice of keeping their Sundays outside, or bringing them in for a pay rise. It works pretty well as a system and Sundays will eventually be inside for everyone, due to retirements/resignations.

For some reason it’s different for TMs - overall a confusing mess!



So Grant Shapps thinks working on days off should be mandatory!? Isn’t that basically slavery?

Certainly seems sensible to employ new staff on Sundays inside.

I think all rail workers should be Sundays inside and this is something that should have been sorted years ago but the privatised companies didn’t want to do so.

 

[Failed Unit]

So Grant Shapps thinks working on days off should be mandatory!? Isn’t that basically slavery?

I don’t understand his objectives to be honest. Prolong the dispute means less passengers. Less passengers need less trains etc. I know he prefers people to fly so maybe is is hoping to help out BA and easyjet, at a time the airports are putting people off. This will all end badly. We need a general election but that is a different thread.

 

[Thermal]

This really is not going to end well is it...

https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1553715911248564226?t=FhOlpRLoVyFqWcUYZV2pFQ&s=19

UNOFFICIAL STRIKES: Passengers using Avanti West services should expect disruption today. Archaic rules from 1919 mean working on rest days is voluntary. Unions now stopping drivers volunteering - causing misery for public & staff who won't get paid. We MUST modernise rail.

Politics is becoming utterly depressing. Unions have been asking for Sundays inside for years, we know the TOC's and DfT won't fund it, but as usual those that control the media get to create their own reality and gaslight the public into believing it. I know I shouldn't let it get me down so much, but the lying and manipulation just gets worse every day.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I doubt if much thinking occurs in Grant Shapps' world before his mouth opens.

He's getting a complete kicking on Twitter, btw.

Predictably most of the Twitter replies are embarrassing. You have to wonder about the mentality of this person:

https://twitter.com/craiggo88418281/status/1553717546473455619

By all means make Sunday part of the working week. I work as a driver. I do Sundays quite happily - just a day for me. I will need to be compensated accordingly obviously. Currently around 3k of my annual income comes from Sunday working. Perhaps 5k as goodwill gesture? Yes?

I currently earn £3K per year from working Sundays so give me an extra £5K per year and I’ll agree to Sunday being part of the working week. How can they not see that just reinforces the public perception of train drivers being simply greedy?

 

[theageofthetra]

This really is not going to end well is it...

https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1553715911248564226?t=FhOlpRLoVyFqWcUYZV2pFQ&s=19

UNOFFICIAL STRIKES: Passengers using Avanti West services should expect disruption today. Archaic rules from 1919 mean working on rest days is voluntary. Unions now stopping drivers volunteering - causing misery for public & staff who won't get paid. We MUST modernise rail.

I hope this imbecile gets sued for that garbage.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Predictably most of the Twitter replies are embarrassing. You have to wonder about the mentality of this person:

https://twitter.com/craiggo88418281/status/1553717546473455619

I currently earn £3K per year from working Sundays so give me an extra £5K per year and I’ll agree to Sunday being part of the working week. How can they not see that just reinforces the public perception of train drivers being simply greedy?

Having it as a regular working day is much more disruptive than being able to pick and choose which additional overtime you want to do as it limits your life outside work more. Thus getting paid more for it is fair. If your boss told you that your contracted hours / days are being increased I assume you'd want more money for that too. I know I would!

I'm not a train driver but I do make a significant amount from overtime too. Infact much more than drivers make from Sundays. About £1500 of my monthly salary is overtime. But if my work wanted to add that to my contract and say I now have to do that overtime I'd be asking for at least £2000 a month instead (as forcing it as part of the contract removes my ability to choose).

 

[Pinus contorta]

I thought he said he wasn't going to get involved, and was going to leave it to the Train Company and the Unions to sort out. Can't stop himself fanning the flames it would appear.

 

[peter166]

Aslef denies strike plans as train operator warns of cancellations

Train drivers will strike on August 13 but their union says there are no plans to disrupt services before then

www.standard.co.uk

At least now the long saga of Avanti cancellations has reached the press & the whole sorry affair is in the public domain for all to see. What a complete & utter shambles !