Why I prefer to use a ticket office and obtain a physical ticket

[AdamWW]

1. All of their tickets are valid on a particular trip only.
2. As passengers board, the driver checks them off a passenger manifest.
3. One member of staff concerned with max 80 tickets. No correct ticket - no travel.
3. This still doesn't stop some clever people trying to board with a made up number, or two passengers trying to board (front and back of queue) using the same number and hoping the driver thinks he made a mistake in ticking off the manifest.

Compare this with trains, where only comparatively few tickets are valid on one train only, where staff are not checking each passenger before they board, checking 500 passengers. Not practicable. Too slow a system and too wide open for train use.

The Czech Republic has a dense railway network with fairly frequent services on many routes.

They say:

How I will get the ticket: ticket in PDF format that you can print out on your printer. You can also display the ticket in PDF format during an inspection on the train on your portable electronic device – e.g. on the screen of your laptop. You can also present the ticket to the conductor displayed on your mobile telephone in the form of a displayed PNG image with a QR code. In the case of inland tickets, instead of presenting a printed ticket you can also just communicate the transaction code, which you will find on the bottom right of the ticket, above the graphic code. If you enter your In Karta card number when purchasing an inland ticket in the e-shop, then it is sufficient to present just your In Karta card to the conductor during a ticket inspection on the train.

Now I concede that I'm just going by what's on a web site not from experience, but this suggests that they have made it work.

It might fall over if every passenger insisted on just showing a transaction code, but you can be pretty sure that most people will be able to show their ticket as a printout or on the phone.

This does remind me a bit of Americans arguing how Amtrak couldn't possibly reserve particular seats for passengers because it would be far too complex as unlike planes trains make lots of stops. But the European railway system shows that it would be quite possible.

I agree that the Megabus example isn't very good evidence that this would work for trains. But there was "Megatrain" (and maybe still is?) which I thought worked in the same way so only point 1 above would be relevant.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The "In Karta" thing is interesting. It'd be quite good to be able to associate an e-ticket to a railcard. A non-Railcard holder could ask for a free season ticket photocard if they wanted that convenience and didn't have another sensible piece of ID e.g. a driving licence. That's a bit like the way, before you printed your own boarding card, you didn't need to take anything to an airport bar your passport.

I think the main barrier to "just quote your booking code" is gatelines, to be honest, where it'd cause huge delay.

The need for the physical card for ToD is probably overridden by 3D Secure and the likes and could be removed, or at least all bookings put to "any card". ToD is a nuisance in many ways, but most of those ways relate to the fact that it prints tickets that in themselves create validity so they can't be duplicated. If ToD was actually "enter your booking code to get an e-ticket on a bit of till roll", you would avoid most of the issues as you could do that as many times as you liked. If you wanted a bit of added security against people tapping in random booking codes for a laugh it could be booking code plus surname of booker, which is collected and often printed on ToDs, or from, to, outward date and booker name if you didn't know the reference. It would also make life more than a bit easier for those who are happy to book online but don't have a printer and don't do smartphones.

 

[AM9]

I agree with this but don't see what it has to do with someone owning one and using it responsibly. Being a pretty hefty bloke I take great pleasure in walking directly towards such people and watching them get scared at the last second and dive out of the way! (Of course being ready to dive out the way myself if necessary; I don't want to assault anyone).

It is a common visual indication of that type of individual.
So do I, if necessary I just stop for a second and let them walk into me. It's great to see the stupid look on their faces. If anybody is assaultin someone it is them through lack of due care and attention.

 

[johncrossley]

With regards to the purchase of train tickets, they are both of the opinion that the railway station booking office at Wilmslow station had catered for their train travel years for a great number of years where the member of staff did all the work involved in producing train journey tickets which allowed for the price discount of their Senior Citizen Railcards. For which they then paid cash. Both these two ladies have no living relatives who could purchase train tickets on their behalf and if the only option for obtaining rail tickets, was the use of machines, rail travel would become a thing of the past for both of them.

So what happens if the ticket office is closed, or they want to use a station that doesn't have a ticket office? Most stations are unstaffed and have been unstaffed for decades. What you effectively saying is that people of similar thinking and living in a Penalty Fare area have been unable to use trains outside ticket office hours since Permit to Travel machines stopped being used.

If the station has ticket gates then in practice the barrier staff would probably help someone who can't operate a ticket machine. That happens already, and even happens when the ticket office is open.

That's a choice. Choice does not have to be accommodated. Though perhaps travel agents could provide, at a price and for-profit, a facility to book train tickets for those who really hate technology, just as they might for an easyJet or Ryanair flight which everyone else books online.

Many if not most travel agents used to sell train tickets. When I was a kid, my local WH Smith could sell train tickets! Post offices sell National Express tickets, where all they really do is go on the website (or a customised version of it) and print out a ticket just like you would do from home. Doing that for train tickets would be little different.

 

[Ken H]

..


Many if not most travel agents used to sell train tickets. When I was a kid, my local WH Smith could sell train tickets! Post offices sell National Express tickets, where all they really do is go on the website (or a customised version of it) and print out a ticket just like you would do from home. Doing that for train tickets would be little different.

Thread on them https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/british-rail-appointed-travel-agents.226636/

 

[AdamWW]

Many if not most travel agents used to sell train tickets. When I was a kid, my local WH Smith could sell train tickets! Post offices sell National Express tickets, where all they really do is go on the website (or a customised version of it) and print out a ticket just like you would do from home. Doing that for train tickets would be little different.

Curiously enough, Transport for Wales have recently started a scheme for shops to sell rail tickets, and bizarrely are advertising the fact that you could buy your tickets from the Tesco next to Cardiff Central instead of in their ticket office. (Or maybe they don't have a ticket office there any more?)

The "In Karta" thing is interesting. It'd be quite good to be able to associate an e-ticket to a railcard. A non-Railcard holder could ask for a free season ticket photocard if they wanted that convenience and didn't have another sensible piece of ID e.g. a driving licence. That's a bit like the way, before you printed your own boarding card, you didn't need to take anything to an airport bar your passport.

Exactly - they know you have a ticket - you just have to prove that you're you.

I think the main barrier to "just quote your booking code" is gatelines, to be honest, where it'd cause huge delay.

Indeed - but not an issue in most European countries so far as I know. The Netherlands (in a big way) and France are all that come to mind for "national rail" services.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So what happens if the ticket office is closed, or they want to use a station that doesn't have a ticket office?

We are talking of Wilmslow station here, that is situated in the town centre with long-distance as well as commuter services. Have you ever visited this particular railway station?

 

[Bletchleyite]

We are talking of Wilmslow station here, that is situated in the town centre with long-distance as well as commuter services. Have you ever visited this particular railway station?

Does it never have the booking office close early due to staff sickness, say?

 

[johncrossley]

We are talking of Wilmslow station here, that is situated in the town centre with long-distance as well as commuter services. Have you ever visited this particular railway station?

According to

Wilmslow Station | National Rail

Discover Wilmslow railway station. Getting to & from, buying & collecting train tickets, staffing, facilities, accessibility, & mobility access.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

the opening hours are

Monday,Tuesday,Wednesday,Thursday,Friday 06:00 - 20:00
Saturday 07:00 - 20:00
Sunday Closed

So they can't buy tickets on Sunday or in the late evening.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Does it never have the booking office close early due to staff sickness, say?

Often! I'm certainly not regular but I've never seen it open.

 

[jfollows]

Does it never have the booking office close early due to staff sickness, say?

Almost never closed in the mornings but not infrequently closed before 8pm when I come home, in my experience.
EDIT I only had the unpleasant experience of using the TVM once (it's painful when my starting point is that I know precisely which ticket I want to buy and how much it costs, which is what I ask a person to sell me normally), but that was actually when there were staff present in the throes of two parallel complex ticketing processes which generated long queues. There used to be extra Northern staff in the mornings but I think they went with the introduction of penalty fares. I believe Northern might have switched from m-tickets to e-tickets now (if not, they say they're going to) so that'll be my fallback plan for tickets I normally buy from a person.

So they can't buy tickets on Sunday or in the late evening.

Sunday is either a recent change or wrong, probably the former, thinking back a bit it might be a while since I used it on a Sunday, maybe March 2020?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

According to

Wilmslow Station | National Rail

Discover Wilmslow railway station. Getting to & from, buying & collecting train tickets, staffing, facilities, accessibility, & mobility access.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

the opening hours are



So they can't buy tickets on Sunday or in the late evening.

Any time that I had planned rail travel, I have always booked well in advance, as the earlier you book, the less chance there is of seat reservation problems, such as unavailability of window seats facing.

 

[miklcct]

Any time that I had planned rail travel, I have always booked well in advance

Even for a Manchester Victoria - Salford Central journey?

 

[johncrossley]

Any time that I had planned rail travel, I have always booked well in advance, as the earlier you book, the less chance there is of seat reservation problems, such as unavailability of window seats facing.

So you have to make a special trip to the station in advance, ensuring you are there when the ticket office is open, and hope that the ticket office is not closed unexpectedly despite visiting during advertised opening hours. This is hugely inconvenient compared to the modern alternatives, especially for a short trip, for example a day trip to somewhere local. If you wanted to go somewhere on a Sunday you would have to visit the the station on an earlier day. People with mobility issues, for example many elderly people, would prefer not to have to make an additional trip to the station just to buy a ticket.

 

[WAB]

The "In Karta" thing is interesting. It'd be quite good to be able to associate an e-ticket to a railcard. A non-Railcard holder could ask for a free season ticket photocard if they wanted that convenience and didn't have another sensible piece of ID e.g. a driving licence. That's a bit like the way, before you printed your own boarding card, you didn't need to take anything to an airport bar your passport.

I think the main barrier to "just quote your booking code" is gatelines, to be honest, where it'd cause huge delay.

The need for the physical card for ToD is probably overridden by 3D Secure and the likes and could be removed, or at least all bookings put to "any card". ToD is a nuisance in many ways, but most of those ways relate to the fact that it prints tickets that in themselves create validity so they can't be duplicated. If ToD was actually "enter your booking code to get an e-ticket on a bit of till roll", you would avoid most of the issues as you could do that as many times as you liked. If you wanted a bit of added security against people tapping in random booking codes for a laugh it could be booking code plus surname of booker, which is collected and often printed on ToDs, or from, to, outward date and booker name if you didn't know the reference. It would also make life more than a bit easier for those who are happy to book online but don't have a printer and don't do smartphones.

I think railcards should be loaded onto ITSO photocards which could be associated with an online account, so any purchases on the account could be "sent" to the photocard in addition to the e-ticket. It would be quicker going through the barriers than faffing about with getting the code to scan, and you wouldn't have to worry about crashing or losing charge.

 

[sheff1]

Indeed there is no reason to buy from TPE; just buy from another site.

I used to buy ickets from TPE for Nectar. Use it far less now but, for some journeys, I continue to do so because there is no need to go through the ridculous charade of having to select specific trains for both outward and return as required by many retailers even if I don't want reservations and, even worse, when the the train(s) concerned are not reservable anyway. Most of the time though I buy a walk up ticket in seconds using contactless from the TVMs at Sheffield where again there is no need to selact a train.

And some people try to use the wrong barcode in the exact same way some people try to use the wrong CCST coupon.

Interesting aside re onboard scanning yesterday. I was using a TfGM Wayfarer till roll ticket bought from the local corner shop. At the bottom was a barcode which, if scanned, entitled one to 50p off a can of Coke Zero. The guards all tried to scan it as if it was a travel related barcode.

 

[RT4038]

The Czech Republic has a dense railway network with fairly frequent services on many routes.

They say:



Now I concede that I'm just going by what's on a web site not from experience, but this suggests that they have made it work.

It might fall over if every passenger insisted on just showing a transaction code, but you can be pretty sure that most people will be able to show their ticket as a printout or on the phone.

This does remind me a bit of Americans arguing how Amtrak couldn't possibly reserve particular seats for passengers because it would be far too complex as unlike planes trains make lots of stops. But the European railway system shows that it would be quite possible.

I agree that the Megabus example isn't very good evidence that this would work for trains. But there was "Megatrain" (and maybe still is?) which I thought worked in the same way so only point 1 above would be relevant.

I think it is a fallacy to assume that because a particular system is in operation that it has 'made to work'. I do not have any knowledge of the CD system, but I do have rather a lot about the last which you mention.

When the system was first introduced it worked fine, but then gradually more and more fraud was being detected - from groups using the same numbers sitting in different parts of the train to sophisticated falsification of numbers, and all sorts in between. These issues resulted in a view that the product was not secure and led to its demise. The conclusion could be that it 'did not work'. Some of the functions could have been mechanised (but weren't, because there were more pressing competing demands for program development) but the problems of slowness of checking of the numbers led to the realisation that scanning was the way forward, and QR/Aztec codes are much better than strings of reference numbers (especially if hand written etc).

I think that you are not comparing apples with apples between Amtrak and the European railway system. Amtrak operates on an 'all seats reserved' basis, on trains with lots of passenger churn intermediately. There are few examples of the European train system that do this. (The French and Spanish trains have relatively little churn) The Italian High Speed trains do both, but can you pick your seats, and if so, do you know what capacity loss there is by allowing this? Just because a particular system is in force does not necessarily mean that it is the most efficient by other standards.

 

[Joe Paxton]

If you're buying from a mobile phone app, only the most stubborn aren't going to want the ticket on that self same mobile phone. Offering other options is just confusing.

Buying for someone else.

(Or buying on a phone you don't trust to make it, battery wise.)

Nonetheless I can see the logic.

The solution to fears isn't to accept them, it's to help people get over them, and if the issue is the cost of equipment to help provide it.

iPads (specifically) are really, really easy to use, and Apple's "walled garden" makes falling foul of malware very, very unlikely. If someone can use the TV remote they can use one. They just need help to do so.

And a fat whack of cash.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So you have to make a special trip to the station in advance, ensuring you are there when the ticket office is open, and hope that the ticket office is not closed unexpectedly despite visiting during advertised opening hours. This is hugely inconvenient compared to the modern alternatives, especially for a short trip, for example a day trip to somewhere local. If you wanted to go somewhere on a Sunday you would have to visit the the station on an earlier day. People with mobility issues, for example many elderly people, would prefer not to have to make an additional trip to the station just to buy a ticket.

As I said before, Wilmslow station is in the town centre and has many places of retail enjoyment such as the iconic Hoopers department store and some better-quality independent trading establishments, so a visit to the railway station is just part and parcel of an enjoyable visit.

Even for a Manchester Victoria - Salford Central journey?

A very short rail journey as that which you so describe is one which can easily be made by taxis or by a whole plethora of local bus services.

 

[arb]

but the problems of slowness of checking of the numbers led to the realisation that scanning was the way forward

This could presumably be solved by stressing that using the code, or any form of manual check involving the name/address/other ID, is to be considered a backup method only for when your phone has died. Once a person has used, say, three different codes for an on-train or ticket-barrier check during a year, then tell them that no longer get free codes with future purchaes, and they have to pay a nominal fee for the rest of the year if they still want a backup code (and of course options such as printing the ticket so it can be scanned still remain as a free backup method even after exhausting your free allowance of easy-to-write-down codes). Speaking as somebody who firmly falls into the group of those that are paranoid about their phone unexpectedly dying (especially given the consequences of not being able to show a valid ticket), that would keep me happy.

To my mind, something has to be done to keep the convenience of a phone-only solution (and I don't feel that phone plus carrying an A4 printout of every ticket as a backup counts as convenient) whilst accepting that phones do occasionally die unexpectedly through no fault of their owner, and making sure that people in that situation are not unfairly punished.

 

[johncrossley]

As I said before, Wilmslow station is in the town centre and has many places of retail enjoyment such as the iconic Hoopers department store and some better-quality independent trading establishments, so a visit to the railway station is just part and parcel of an enjoyable visit.

So what would you do if your local station was unstaffed or not in the town centre?

 

[AdamWW]

I think it is a fallacy to assume that because a particular system is in operation that it has 'made to work'.

I did say that I was just going by the web site not direct experience. Maybe it's something new and soon they will realise the error of their ways. But maybe not.

When the system was first introduced it worked fine, but then gradually more and more fraud was being detected - from groups using the same numbers sitting in different parts of the train to sophisticated falsification of numbers, and all sorts in between. These issues resulted in a view that the product was not secure and led to its demise. The conclusion could be that it 'did not work'. Some of the functions could have been mechanised (but weren't, because there were more pressing competing demands for program development) but the problems of slowness of checking of the numbers led to the realisation that scanning was the way forward, and QR/Aztec codes are much better than strings of reference numbers (especially if hand written etc).

I think there is a big difference between quoting a code as the main method of working and it being available as a backup. If most people use the QR code (and I would expect them to) then the time taken by the odd person just giving a code is less of an issue. I can see that it's less secure but if linked to a record of the passenger name and journey being made and ID has to be shown I would have thought that would be sufficient to avoid most fraud. (Maybe I'm wrong - you clearly know a lot more about these things than I do).

I think that you are not comparing apples with apples between Amtrak and the European railway system. Amtrak operates on an 'all seats reserved' basis, on trains with lots of passenger churn intermediately. There are few examples of the European train system that do this. (The French and Spanish trains have relatively little churn) The Italian High Speed trains do both, but can you pick your seats, and if so, do you know what capacity loss there is by allowing this? Just because a particular system is in force does not necessarily mean that it is the most efficient by other standards.

You've given a good reason for Amtrak not allowing specific seat reservations. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make. My comparison was with people making a much less subtle argument. They were just saying that there is no computer system on earth that could cope with the complexity of the number of trains that Amtrak run and the number of stations they call at. Which clearly isn't true.

To my mind, something has to be done to keep the convenience of a phone-only solution (and I don't feel that phone plus carrying an A4 printout of every ticket as a backup counts as convenient) whilst accepting that phones do occasionally die unexpectedly through no fault of their owner, and making sure that people in that situation are not unfairly punished.

This is my view too (though I suspect we are both in a minority). If a lose a paper ticket - well that's my stupidity. If my phone suddenly gives out unexpectedly, how could I have known it was going to happen?

This could presumably be solved by stressing that using the code, or any form of manual check involving the name/address/other ID, is to be considered a backup method only for when your phone has died.

I suspect you wouldn't need anything this complicated. Most people will just show the ticket on their phone anyway because it's simpler. The paranoid will also write the reservation number down as a backup and probably never use it.

 

[railfan99]

This isn't a reason to keep ticket offices open, as anyone paying by cash (which is a small minority) can buy on board if there is no facility to pay with cash at the origin.

I have purchased a two month first class Eurailpass, initially to be used in UK. It needs to be validated at the first station of use: station staff write in the dates, and stamp the pass with the station's stamp.

I opted for the traditional 'paper pass' to be mailed to my home in Australia: there was a three week delay before it was despatched (Eurail in Netherlands has had big demand for Interrail/Eurailpssses) but then it only took eight business days to reach my home 17000 kilometres away.

There are many horror stories of passholders using the mobile version running into trouble with conductors (typically in Europe) when there's no smartphone reception.

I "get" that booking offices are expensive to staff but surely with the big numbers of passengers on many UK lines the larger and medium sized stations need these. Perhaps if smaller stations are still staffed in that way, it could be a way to save money by closing a few, or multi-skilling the staff if not already occurring.

 

[RT4038]

This could presumably be solved by stressing that using the code, or any form of manual check involving the name/address/other ID, is to be considered a backup method only for when your phone has died. Once a person has used, say, three different codes for an on-train or ticket-barrier check during a year, then tell them that no longer get free codes with future purchaes, and they have to pay a nominal fee for the rest of the year if they still want a backup code (and of course options such as printing the ticket so it can be scanned still remain as a free backup method even after exhausting your free allowance of easy-to-write-down codes).

This seems a highly complicated system which would generate as many problems that it would solve.

I think there is a big difference between quoting a code as the main method of working and it being available as a backup. If most people use the QR code (and I would expect them to) then the time taken by the odd person just giving a code is less of an issue. I can see that it's less secure but if linked to a record of the passenger name and journey being made and ID has to be shown I would have thought that would be sufficient to avoid most fraud. (Maybe I'm wrong - you clearly know a lot more about these things than I do).

This seems to fall into the problem that the railways have - they are mass transit. They are dealing with a very large quantity of passengers per day, not all of them honest as the driven snow, and the time that customer facing staff can spend with any one of them is very limited - any other and the costs spiral out of control. Even 10 passengers on a crowded train showing reservation numbers, got to be punched in and checked against a data base on a moving train, will slow the ticket checking process considerably. It would be a nice personal touch (possibly at the cost of checking fewer tickets), but is it really practicable or necessary ?

You've given a good reason for Amtrak not allowing specific seat reservations. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make. My comparison was with people making a much less subtle argument. They were just saying that there is no computer system on earth that could cope with the complexity of the number of trains that Amtrak run and the number of stations they call at. Which clearly isn't true.

I expect that Amtrak were giving a reason that is simple - trying to explain the churn reason, especially to laymen, is quite difficult and complicated.
(and anyway, the real real reason (apart from churn) is that US railroads have the tradition of packing the passengers into the smallest number of cars, to make the staff's job easier!)

This is my view too (though I suspect we are both in a minority). If a lose a paper ticket - well that's my stupidity. If my phone suddenly gives out unexpectedly, how could I have known it was going to happen?



I suspect you wouldn't need anything this complicated. Most people will just show the ticket on their phone anyway because it's simpler. The paranoid will also write the reservation number down as a backup and probably never use it.

Unfortunately we've just got to get over this paranoia - the phone suddenly 'giving out' is much the same as losing the paper ticket. If you are paranoid - print the ticket out as well. Simples. No need for another system as belt, braces and a piece of string.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So what would you do if your local station was unstaffed or not in the town centre?

I deal in reality in situations that exist in real life such as the actual location of Wilmslow station that so affected me prior to the death of my wife. I suggest that you address your query to someone affected by the situation you raise

 

[arb]

If you are paranoid - print the ticket out as well.

Yes, I could do that. But at that point the e-ticket system has lost its major plus point: convenience. And so e-tickets no longer offer any major benefit to me, and I'll stick to the traditional method of just collecting a ticket from a station. I will gladly use a more convenient method of ticketing, as long as the potential punishment to me when it goes wrong isn't increased.

Here's an idea for resolving this: if phones never die unexpectedly, how about the railway gives everybody a free phone for buying/displaying e-tickets, guaranteed by the railway to never die? This would be a one-off cost, because there's no need to ever give people replacements, because they never die. It could be a really cheap, second-hand phone with an old battery (that never dies), no need for anything flashy. It could be paid for out of the savings that come from having everybody using e-tickets, and finally being able to close all ticket offices for good, without any complaint from anybody. Revenue protection would be easier because "my phone has died" no longer happens. People who did have a dead phone, for whatever reason, would have to be trusted when they say "I did have a valid ticket on there, it's not my fault I can't show it to you" (but of course, phones don't die, so I don't know why I bothered with that last sentence).

If my starting assumption is wrong, and phones do die unexpectedly, then this idea is clearly a non-starter, for lots of obvious reasons. But since the general opinion seems to be that phones don't die, and I'm overly-paranoid for worrying about that, I don't see any flaws at all!

 

[Runningaround]

Yes, I could do that. But at that point the e-ticket system has lost its major plus point: convenience. And so e-tickets no longer offer any major benefit to me, and I'll stick to the traditional method of just collecting a ticket from a station. I will gladly use a more convenient method of ticketing, as long as the potential punishment to me when it goes wrong isn't increased.

Here's an idea for resolving this: if phones never die unexpectedly, how about the railway gives everybody a free phone for buying/displaying e-tickets, guaranteed by the railway to never die? This would be a one-off cost, because there's no need to ever give people replacements, because they never die. It could be a really cheap, second-hand phone with an old battery (that never dies), no need for anything flashy. It could be paid for out of the savings that come from having everybody using e-tickets, and finally being able to close all ticket offices for good, without any complaint from anybody. Revenue protection would be easier because "my phone has died" no longer happens. People who did have a dead phone, for whatever reason, would have to be trusted when they say "I did have a valid ticket on there, it's not my fault I can't show it to you" (but of course, phones don't die, so I don't know why I bothered with that last sentence).

If my starting assumption is wrong, and phones do die unexpectedly, then this idea is clearly a non-starter, for lots of obvious reasons. But since the general opinion seems to be that phones don't die, and I'm overly-paranoid for worrying about that, I don't see any flaws at all!

A physical ticket gives you only one option you lose or forget it you pay again. Online tickets can provide you with several backups you don't have to print a copy, but that option is there, your phone dies you can borrow another and bring up the confirmation email with tickets on it, a friendly guard may even let you use his, if your battery dies you can recharge it. Good on-train staff will give you the benefit of doubt and come back later to give you time to get the phone working. None of this can be done if you don't have the physical ticket on you.

 

[Deafdoggie]

This is my view too (though I suspect we are both in a minority). If a lose a paper ticket - well that's my stupidity. If my phone suddenly gives out unexpectedly, how could I have known it was going to happen?

It's unbelievable the bad luck people on this forum have with phones.
Meanwhile, over in the real world, what things run off, essentially, a mobile phone never dieing? police, ambulance, supermarket shopping deliveries amazon deliveries & many more. Yet forum members struggle to make a train journey. Maybe there could be some study into it. Just why do forum members struggle to keep phones working? I'd love to know.

 

[Runningaround]

It's unbelievable the bad luck people on this forum have with phones.
Meanwhile, over in the real world, what things run off, essentially, a mobile phone never dieing? police, ambulance, supermarket shopping deliveries amazon deliveries & many more. Yet forum members struggle to make a train journey. Maybe there could be some study into it. Just why do forum members struggle to keep phones working? I'd love to know.

They've managed to keep it or the device they're on working long enough to read some of this thread, they even worked out how to connect it to the internet and search and register for this very forum. A few extra clicks and they're on a ticketing website, that's how easy it is but for some reason it's not been cottoned onto yet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think some are failing at risk assessment.

Mobile phones can theoretically die randomly. However, they hardly ever do. The main reason for phones "dying" is their user having failed to manage the battery life properly. If your train ticket is on it, for example, and the battery is down to 5 to 10%, say, stick it in flight mode and turn the screen off, it'll last the rest of the day quite happily (it'll even happily carry on playing downloaded music for a long time - the things that eat battery are connecting to the network/wifi and the screen). But what those people will actually do is carry on scrolling Facebook until it runs out then moan when they get a Penalty Fare or worse.

The other way they "die" is being dropped, which can crack the screen but you'd still be able to show the e-ticket to the human eye at least. Usually it's not the actual LCD that cracks but the touch screen above it.

They are probably the same people who run out of petrol in their car, something that's never happened to me, because my rule is that once I get to 25% left I refuel as soon as reasonably possible, which gives about 50-100 miles of slack in case there's a lack of open petrol stations or I'm on the motorway and need to leave it to find somewhere that isn't a rip-off.

The train could catch fire and in escaping from the flames I could drop my wallet with my paper ticket and it burn to a cinder...

OK, you could drop your phone in the bog, but many modern ones are actually waterproof, and you could drop your paper ticket in it too.