Is the use of cash dying out?

[Bletchleyite]

So don't borrow! I've had credit cards for over 25 years and haven't borrowed a penny, except when there was huge money to be made from 0% balance transfer deals in the noughties.

They can be very useful for rolling a transaction forward onto next month, such as if your car gets a puncture and you've only got a small amount left as it's nearly payday. That's free.

Or if you're on holiday and need something you can claim off your insurance, mostly pay and claim back is easier or the only option.

Or business expenses which tend to be paid in arrears because it's assumed you can put stuff on a card while you wait for it to be paid.

If you can't discipline yourself with credit it's best not having one, but if you can they're a brilliant "just in case" thing, plus the extra legal protection you get from them when making a large purchase.

 

[nlogax]

Just remembered.. I do actually carry cash. It's a pound coin for supermarket trolleys which I keep in the car.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just remembered.. I do actually carry cash. It's a pound coin for supermarket trolleys which I keep in the car.

I use a token attached to my keyring for that as pound coins invariably end up being spent! (I do carry cash as a few local places, most notably the chippy, don't yet do card or have a minimum; I reckon I draw out about £50 every 2 months or so, though, and it's decreasing all the time).

 

[Dai Corner]

What I have just done is opened another current account with a different bank. The intention is now to keep no more than a couple of hundred pounds in this account, and often less, then it will be a card that I would feel more comfortable just keeping in my pocket when I go out.

That's what I do. One account that my pension goes into and my direct debits come out of. The debit card is disabled and stays at home.

A second account for day to day spending, topped up monthly form the first account on pension day. I carry the debit card and have it linked to my Google Wallet so I can pay using my phone.

 

[johncrossley]

They can be very useful for rolling a transaction forward onto next month, such as if your car gets a puncture and you've only got a small amount left as it's nearly payday. That's free.

Or if you're on holiday and need something you can claim off your insurance, mostly pay and claim back is easier or the only option.

Or business expenses which tend to be paid in arrears because it's assumed you can put stuff on a card while you wait for it to be paid.

If you can't discipline yourself with credit it's best not having one, but if you can they're a brilliant "just in case" thing, plus the extra legal protection you get from them when making a large purchase.

If you are prudent you would have adequate savings to cover any credit card balance, meaning no need to pay interest. Although there's an argument for keeping all savings in the stock market or for paying off the mortgage as the long term investment return or saving on mortgage interest should outweigh any short term credit card interest you might pay for unexpected expenses. But that's higher risk.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's what I do. One account that my pension goes into and my direct debits come out of. The debit card is disabled and stays at home.

A second account for day to day spending, topped up monthly form the first account on pension day. I carry the debit card and have it linked to my Google Wallet so I can pay using my phone.

I might be inclined to do that (or use Monzo Pots to achieve the same thing; you can set it up to pay DDs etc out of them or use virtual cards to spend from them) if I still lived in a rough area - when I was a student, while it never happened to me, knifepoint muggings where they'd march you to a cashpoint and make you enter your PIN weren't unusual, and getting it refunded was difficult because the banks would say "but you entered your PIN", ignoring the potential for death if not entered.

These days (now that's unlikely) I've just put an upper limit on card contactless, I think £50 or 3 spends, if I recall. I can do higher contactless spends on my phone which requires me to unlock it (theoretically unlimited as it's more secure than a PIN but some terminals don't work with higher than the standard £100).

If you are prudent

And in the position to do so (not everyone is!)

you would have adequate savings to cover any credit card balance, meaning no need to pay interest. Although there's an argument for keeping all savings in the stock market or for paying off the mortgage as the long term investment return or saving on mortgage interest should outweigh any short term credit card interest you might pay for unexpected expenses. But that's higher risk.

In summer 2020 I got a new car, but as I wasn't trading the old one in (being a Land Rover Defender it was an unusual vehicle which would always get a low trade-in other than at a LR dealer or similar) and wanted to buy before I sold I took out a new personal loan at an almost peppercorn interest rate to buy the new one (the loan from the Landy itself had been paid off a year or so before). Because of uncertainties etc I haven't paid it off when I sold the old car, I've kept the money from that as savings and kept the loan going. Seems to have been a sensible choice as it got me straight to having a decent savings buffer which I haven't otherwise had since I put all my savings into my house purchase and refurbishment a number of years back.

 

[DelayRepay]

If you are prudent you would have adequate savings to cover any credit card balance, meaning no need to pay interest. Although there's an argument for keeping all savings in the stock market or for paying off the mortgage as the long term investment return or saving on mortgage interest should outweigh any short term credit card interest you might pay for unexpected expenses. But that's higher risk.

Having a credit card is still a great safety net, for those who can.

When I had a family emergency, I needed to travel immediately overseas. I was glad I could put the flights and accommodation on credit card without worrying about having the immediate worry of how I was going to fund the trip (and at the time I did not know how long I would be there for, or how much paid leave from work I'd be able to use). I did pay some interest but it was worth it to be able to get to where I needed to be.

I also ran up quite a big credit card bill when my dad was in hospital, because him and my mum didn't have joint bank accounts and she could only access her own small pension. Some shuffling around of my own money avoided any interest charges but again it was a good safety net to deal with a short term emergency.

 

[philjo]

I've been "caught short" in the Lake District due to their old cash-accepting toilet turnstiles that required the precise coin and wouldn't take overpayment
Now they're card it hasn't happened again.

My brother had the opposite problem when we were in the Lakes - the card reader at the turnstile in Bowness declined his debit card so was not able to enter the toilets as they were now card only. The reader is contactless only and I think the bank had requested use of the PIN. I also know some people with cards that are not contactless so they would not be able to enter there either.

I had to lend him my card so he could go in.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I use Monzo Pots to achieve the same thing

Monzo Pots ... sounds like one of the characters from The Muppet Show ...

 

[ainsworth74]

If the Internet goes down you can't use an ATM or get cash out at the bank or Post Office either. So there's no real solution to that.

Though of course if the internet went down for any great length of time you could have all your money in cash but would rapidly find that there was very little to spend it on!

 

[Bletchleyite]

My brother had the opposite problem when we were in the Lakes - the card reader at the turnstile in Bowness declined his debit card so was not able to enter the toilets as they were now card only. The reader is contactless only and I think the bank had requested use of the PIN. I also know some people with cards that are not contactless so they would not be able to enter there either.

I had to lend him my card so he could go in.

So far as I understand it using a contactless card on a terminal that has no slot/PIN pad isn't supposed to trigger a PIN request, it gets saved for the next transaction at a terminal that does, but these terminals are really cheap and nasty (and slow) so they probably don't do it properly.

I don't, however, see why these (and similar ones on vending machines) shouldn't incorporate a PIN pad; they're tiny these days. Just doing things on the cheap I guess.

Mind you that's only like doing the coin slots on the cheap when they took cash - having a slot shaped for one coin and a simple microswitch is much cheaper than a coin slot that can tell what you inserted and sum it up if it's multiple coins. If I was desperate I'd happily pay £20, let alone £2, to enter, even that's better than soiling yourself.

To be fair you can jump "gateline style" barriers if it's an emergency (I haven't but I've seen it done plenty of times), an alarm goes off but nobody cares, and as there's no "Regulation of Lavatories Act 1886" the most they could probably do is sue you for 50p plus costs, unless there's a specific local Byelaw. But many of the Lakes ones are on the outside door.

Monzo Pots ... sounds like one of the characters from The Muppet Show ...

Or a fancy Pot Noodle?

 

[Deafdoggie]

So far as I understand it using a contactless card on a terminal that has no slot/PIN pad isn't supposed to trigger a PIN request, it gets saved for the next transaction at a terminal that does, but these terminals are really cheap and nasty (and slow) so they probably don't do it properly.

I think it depends on the bank. Starling and TSB never fail at a vending machine. Nationwide on the other hand...
Meanwhile on the next vending machine someone repeatedly feeds in the same 5p as the machine rejects it for no reason and refuses to give the rest of the money back.
I've long suspected vending machines have some sort of grudge against me.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I think it depends on the bank. Starling and TSB never fail at a vending machine. Nationwide on the other hand...
Meanwhile on the next vending machine someone repeatedly feeds in the same 5p as the machine rejects it for no reason and refuses to give the rest of the money back.
I've long suspected vending machines have some sort of grudge against me.

The 90's era Cadbury ones on Underground platforms were notorious!

 

[52290]

Yes apparently so. Sam Smith's pubs are a complete anachronism run by an imbecile. I won't go near them.

Two days ago I was in Sinclair's Oyster Bar in Manchester which earlier this year reintroduced cask Old Brewery Bitter after a gap of about fifteen years. I didn't mind paying cash at £3 a pint. Humphrey also banned mobile phones in his pubs but it doesn't seem to apply to the outside drinking areas.

 

[bleeder4]

The media have been reporting recently that cash is undergoing something of a renaissance at the moment, due to the cost of living causing people to literally count the pennies. BBC News just wheeled out "Sarah, 23, from Bolton" who showed us all the coin-filled jars on her cupboard, marked "Rent", "Bills", "Food" etc.

Ironically, the place I'm using cash the most at the moment is the trolley service on board trains. I'll buy a cup of tea and, inevitably, as I'm trying to pay we'll suddenly go through a deep cutting or a tunnel and the payment machine will lose signal. It's happened so often I'm now in the habit of taking a few quid cash with me whenever I go on the train, just in case I want to buy a cuppa. There are also a few local traders near me that levy a surcharge for card transactions eg, my barber charges £10 cash or £10.50 card to cover his processing costs. So I usually take a tenner with me when I get my hair cut.

 

[davews]

Imperial War Museum today had donation 'pods' with a smart card scanner (actually three separate scanners for £5, £10 and £20!) and a slot for notes. I made a point of putting a fiver's worth of coins in the slot, which lightened my load as well.

 

[johncrossley]

There are also a few local traders near me that levy a surcharge for card transactions eg, my barber charges £10 cash or £10.50 card to cover his processing costs.

Is that allowed?

 

[J-2739]

Is that allowed?

My local corner shop requires a minimum purchase of £3 for card transactions. I don't know if this is the same thing, but the practice is not unusual.

 

[johncrossley]

My local corner shop requires a minimum purchase of £3 for card transactions. I don't know if this is the same thing, but the practice is not unusual.

There was a ruling a few years ago, meaning that most corner shops switched from surcharging to minimum purchase.

 

[J-2739]

There was a ruling a few years ago, meaning that most corner shops switched from surcharging to minimum purchase.

That sounds about right.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Is that allowed?

In short, no. You're not allowed to charge a card fee. But you can impose a minimum spend, although why you would I don't know. It costs the same percentage fee whatever the transaction size and it costs far more to bank cash. So the business is loosing out in effect. Unless of course they're operating illegally and not declaring it!

 

[APT618S]

If the massive government intrusions into our lives over lockdowns didn't convince people of the vital importance of continuing to be able to transact anonymously, then sadly probably nothing will. At least not until you find your bank accounts frozen because you went to an anti-government protest (see the Canadian truckers earlier this year). Or you find you're not allowed to buy the food you want because you've exceeded your monthly carbon ration (already suggested by various people, eg. the head of a major bank in the Netherlands). Or you find you can't buy a train ticket because your social credit score isn't good enough. Or you find you can't buy petrol for your car because you've not had the latest government mandated vaccine/booster. Or...

Totally agree. In addition the existance of cash prevents Central Banks from setting a significant Negative interest rate. Anybody fancy their savings being confiscated ....

 

[Busaholic]

Cash will never die out because it is the lowest common denominator. When all else fails (i.e the electricity supply) it'll still be there, at least for those wise enough to still deal with it. For avoidance of argument, batteries run out of power and require replacing, where available, or to be topped up by an electricity supply, so I'm talking about the non-availability of it over a prolonged period.

In Africa the provision of ATMs or its more advanced successor the ADT is growing exponentially, with the latter in Kenya for example able to dole out cash without a bank card present in some circumstances. There is a rapidly expanding charity providing mobile van-based ATMs in many African countries too.

 

[Gloster]

As the possibility of prolonged power-cuts next winter is now being talked about, there will be advantages in cash. It is a lot easier to count cash by candlelight than to operate electrical devices without electricity.

 

[Welshman]

The last bastion of cash has gone - the church collection-plate!
The last time I was there, there was a machine at the door at which you flicked your contactless card and £10 was automatically deducted!
I wonder if all the receipts are brought to the altar in procession at the offertory, along with the bread and wine?

 

[johncrossley]

How many centuries in the future is Star Wars set? Even in Star Wars they seem to use physical currency.

 

[Ediswan]

In Africa the provision of ATMs or its more advanced successor the ADT is growing exponentially

It took me a while to work out that ADT is Automated Depositor Terminal (rather than the security company). The modern version of the 'night safe' is alive and well, living in Africa.

My only claim to fame in context is living in Enfield when a new 'thing' appeared on the wall of Barclays Bank (1967). Contrary to some of the online descriptions, it did not 'take cheques'. It took a punched plastic strip, which was retained.

The last bastion of cash has gone - the church collection-plate!

What about the job leaving card/collection envelope. Contribute what you feel appropriate, anonymously.

 

[Bald Rick]

My local corner shop requires a minimum purchase of £3 for card transactions. I don't know if this is the same thing, but the practice is not unusual.

I was in a pub recently, and ordered a pint of premium lager, and tried to pat by phone. The bar maid asked if I wanted anything else. I said no. She the said that there was a minimum spend of £5. Given that every other pub in the area charges £6+ for premium lager I was somewhat nonplussed. The lager was £4.80. I said charge me £5! To be fair I would have happily paid £8 for it.

 

[johncrossley]

What about the job leaving card/collection envelope. Contribute what you feel appropriate, anonymously.

Alternatives were found during lockdowns.

 

[Dai Corner]

I was in a pub recently, and ordered a pint of premium lager, and tried to pat by phone. The bar maid asked if I wanted anything else. I said no. She the said that there was a minimum spend of £5. Given that every other pub in the area charges £6+ for premium lager I was somewhat nonplussed. The lager was £4.80. I said charge me £5! To be fair I would have happily paid £8 for it.

Interesting. I've paid as little as £1.99, £3.00 and £3.30 contactlessly for pints recently. Even £1.80 for a half. All decent ales by the way. I must live in a cheaper area than Bald Rick!