Is the use of cash dying out?

[Ediswan]

Alternatives were found during lockdowns.

How did they retain anonymity ? By which I mean *NOBODY* can tell who contributed what.

 

[Bald Rick]

Interesting. I've paid as little as £1.99, £3.00 and £3.30 contactlessly for pints recently. Even £1.80 for a half. All decent ales by the way. I must live in a cheaper area than Bald Rick!

£1.99!!!! I haven’t paid that for a pint in a pub for at least a decade.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How did they retain anonymity ? By which I mean *NOBODY* can tell who contributed what.

Fairly sure you can donate anonymously to e.g. a GoFundMe. GoFundMe will know who donated for money laundering reasons, but the people who matter (the person setting it up and the recipient) won't know.

 

[birchesgreen]

How many centuries in the future is Star Wars set? Even in Star Wars they seem to use physical currency.

No its set a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

 

[philjo]

What about the job leaving card/collection envelope. Contribute what you feel appropriate, anonymously.

As our team are spread across the country based in 9 different offices and several are permanently based at home the usual practice here is to send a BACS payment to one of the senior team managers who then arranges the gift(s) and flowers etc.
The Gift is often in the form of an e-voucher depending on the interests of the person leaving.

I think the last 3 leaving events have been held over a Teams call.

 

[PeterY]

The first question I ask in a shop "do you take cash?" If they don't I take my business elsewhere (posh coffee shops I'm talking to you)

 

[nlogax]

The first question I ask in a shop "do you take cash?" If they don't I take my business elsewhere (posh coffee shops I'm talking to you)

And that's fine...just don't expect your actions to have any impact.

 

[Bald Rick]

The first question I ask in a shop "do you take cash?" If they don't I take my business elsewhere (posh coffee shops I'm talking to you)

Similarly

The first question I ask in smaller shops / bars etc is “do you take cards?” If they don‘t, I take my business elsewhere (Sam Smith’s pubs I’m talking to you )

 

[duncanp]

£1.99!!!! I haven’t paid that for a pint in a pub for at least a decade.

The Wetherspoons next to the Brindley Place tram stop in Birmingham was charging £1.29 for a pint of Ruddles Best bitter yesterday.

Even when I lived in London, the local Wetherspoons charged £1.99 for Ruddles and £2.29 for a decent selection of guest beers.

When I was in London on Tuesday this week, the Wetherspoons at Holborn was charging £3.29 for all their guest beers, which is very good value for money in Central London, where you are lucky to get change out of £5 for a pint these days.

I know not everyone likes Wetherspoons, but in these cost conscious times, value for money is going to become more important.

And Wetherspoons take cash and cards, which gives their customers a choice, which is what all bars and pubs should be doing.

 

[Bald Rick]

The Wetherspoons next to the Brindley Place tram stop in Birmingham was charging £1.29 for a pint of Ruddles Best bitter yesterday.

‘Ruddles Best Bitter’ is rather an anachronism of terminology!

I know not everyone likes Wetherspoons, but in these cost conscious times, value for money is going to become more important.

Well yes, but from my recollections of Wetherspoons (I’m a refuser), whilst the drinks were cheap, it generally poor beer and certainly a poor environment and therefore in value terms (for me) lower than more expensive pubs.

 

[MikeWM]

And Wetherspoons take cash and cards, which gives their customers a choice, which is what all bars and pubs should be doing.

Indeed - but we seem to have this unfortunate tendency nowadays that those who embrace the new want to simultaneously remove the old, and don't seem to understand why some of us are quite happy with the old way of doing things, or indeed that at least in some circumstances the old ways were better and/or more robust.

I'm going to pay in cash, but I don't want to stop people using cards (or phone apps, or facial recognition, or whatever other horrors are lined up for us) if they prefer to.

Same way I rather like paper timetables on the railway, but as soon as journey planners and RealTimeTrains came along there were all the calls that 'no-one needs to use a paper timetable anymore, so they should stop doing them.' And those people have won, and there are no more paper timetables, which I think is a great loss.

Or indeed paper tickets, which there appears to be a massive campaign against now, including many posters on this forum.

Those of us who like the old ways of doing things are quite happy for people to embrace the new ways if that is what they prefer. But that understanding only seems to work in one direction.

 

[AM9]

The Wetherspoons next to the Brindley Place tram stop in Birmingham was charging £1.29 for a pint of Ruddles Best bitter yesterday.

Even when I lived in London, the local Wetherspoons charged £1.99 for Ruddles and £2.29 for a decent selection of guest beers.

When I was in London on Tuesday this week, the Wetherspoons at Holborn was charging £3.29 for all their guest beers, which is very good value for money in Central London, where you are lucky to get change out of £5 for a pint these

So is that a case for 'levelling up' so that you can enjoy beer the same as wealthy Londoners.

 

[Springs Branch]

How will the demise of cash affect the illegal drugs trade?

I read recently that in Australia, despite the rapid move to contactless, online shopping and card use in general, demand for banknotes is at an all-time high and increasing each year.

This was said to be especially so for high-value notes, mainly AU$100 notes - roughly equivalent in value to £50 - and which, like the £50 note, is never dispensed from ATMs and you very rarely see one being offered in a normal retail setting.

This sounded surprising - who makes high-value purchases with cash needing wads of $100 bills? - but the report stated that demand is largely fuelled by the illicit drugs trade and organised crime.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Indeed - but we seem to have this unfortunate tendency nowadays that those who embrace the new want to simultaneously remove the old, and don't seem to understand why some of us are quite happy with the old way of doing things, or indeed that at least in some circumstances the old ways were better and/or more robust.

I'm going to pay in cash, but I don't want to stop people using cards (or phone apps, or facial recognition, or whatever other horrors are lined up for us) if they prefer to.

Same way I rather like paper timetables on the railway, but as soon as journey planners and RealTimeTrains came along there were all the calls that 'no-one needs to use a paper timetable anymore, so they should stop doing them.' And those people have won, and there are no more paper timetables, which I think is a great loss.

Or indeed paper tickets, which there appears to be a massive campaign against now, including many posters on this forum.

Those of us who like the old ways of doing things are quite happy for people to embrace the new ways if that is what they prefer. But that understanding only seems to work in one direction.

The cost of producing these things is horrific. Not producing paper timetables has literally saved thousands of pounds. Not producing paper tickets would also save thousands. Why should we all pay this so the minority can enjoy the more expensive way they've always used when perfectly capable of using a cheaper way.
I'm all for keeping the old ways as long as those wanting them bear the full cost. If you want a paper timetable leaflet you have to pay £10, or whatever, for it. The rest of us don't need to subside it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

‘Ruddles Best Bitter’ is rather an anachronism of terminology!

Is it like Robinson's Best Bitter, where if that's the best they can do you'd hate to taste their worst?

How will the demise of cash affect the illegal drugs trade?

One key advantage of moving away from cash is that cash enables crime by being difficult if not impossible to track.

 

[Deafdoggie]

One key advantage of moving away from cash is that cash enables crime by being difficult if not impossible to track.

Maybe forum members wanting to keep cash are gangland crime leaders...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe forum members wanting to keep cash are gangland crime leaders...

Doing a dodgy trade in paper tickets on CCST (only, no bog roll allowed)?

Wouldn't surprise me if some would prefer to pay a tradesman cash to avoid VAT, though - that sort of tax fraud is very common indeed.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Doing a dodgy trade in paper tickets on CCST (only, no bog roll allowed)?

The blackmarket in CCST is probably huge

 

[Bletchleyite]

The blackmarket in CCST is probably huge

As in resale of tickets? It's now allowed provided it's a wholly unused ticket (both halves if a return) and isn't sold for above face value, though I bet there's plenty of passing round of unused or used-but-uninspected period return halves. If the railway cared about it that much it'd require names on tickets.

 

[Dai Corner]

The blackmarket in CCST is probably huge

They'd certainly be the ticket of choice (bought with cash, of course) for any fare evaders who read the Disputes and Prosecutions section here.

 

[MikeWM]

The cost of producing these things is horrific. Not producing paper timetables has literally saved thousands of pounds. Not producing paper tickets would also save thousands.

A tiny, tiny, drop in the ocean compared to many other costs on the railway, hardly 'horrific'.

And how many people does the railway lose because it is increasinly opaque as to how to actually find out information about when trains are running, and how and when and where to get a ticket? I know to go to NR or RTT or whatever, and what I need to do once at the station; but to be blunt there are a lot of people who don't, and some of them are being put off travelling.

 

[johncrossley]

If anything, the UK is cautious compared to some countries in getting rid of legacy systems. For example, the Dutch rail timetable book used to be a best seller but they stopped producing paper timetables years ago. The three volume Swiss national timetable was also an institution, but now exists only as pdfs. Which countries still produce paper timetables?

The Dutch have even dared to closed the whole post office network!

 

[MikeWM]

One key advantage of moving away from cash is that cash enables crime by being difficult if not impossible to track.

We all know that is going to be the next line used against those of us that prefer to use cash. Using cash will be made to look suspicious, something only the bad guys do, and so mean those still using it will be subject to greater scrutiny. After all 'if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear', supposedly.

But as I said above, that cuts both ways. While no-one would have an issue with making committing serious crimes more difficult for those trying to do so, the very recent experience of lockdown when all manner of 'normal' activities suddenly became outlawed, should have operated as a wake-up call to everyone that sometimes being able to do things without the government knowing about it is a very good thing. In many cases, even a necessary thing. How many of the great stories we all know about brave people resisting evil regimes would even be possible in today's surveillance society? In modern times, they'd have been caught within days, if not hours.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If anything, the UK is cautious compared to some countries in getting rid of legacy systems. For example, the Dutch rail timetable book used to be a best seller but they stopped producing paper timetables years ago. The three volume Swiss national timetable was also an institution, but now exists only as pdfs. Which countries still produce paper timetables?

The Dutch have even dared to closed the whole post office network!

The UK is also doing that but in a more clever way - moving the services into convenience stores, to be delivered by their existing staff, which both saves money (on staff and premises leasing) and improves the service (longer hours).

 

[johncrossley]

The UK is also doing that but in a more clever way - moving the services into convenience stores, to be delivered by their existing staff, which both saves money (on staff and premises leasing) and improves the service (longer hours).

The Dutch do similar with the new postal shops within bigger shops, but they are just for the post. Post offices here do all kinds of other stuff to justify their existence.

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s part of a broader economic picture.

Most employers with customer facing jobs, and many more with relatively low paid jobs are struggling to hire staff. U.K. productivity has historically lagged behind our peers. Yet when there are initiatives that significantly improve productivity and free up people into the labour market, eg moving away from cash, automated tills, closing ticket offices, dare I even say DOO (sorry), there are people who find it difficult to accept progress.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Dutch do similar with the new postal shops within bigger shops, but they are just for the post. Post offices here do all kinds of other stuff to justify their existence.

Post offices here are more of a Government services access point, which tends to be provided in town halls in other European countries, whereas here Councils only deal with their own services and not national ones.

 

[johncrossley]

There's a way of sending letters in the Netherlands without stamps, where you get a 9 character code from an app that you write in the corner of the letter where the stamp usually goes. You can see a picture here:

Gebruik postzegelcodes PostNL bijna verdrievoudigd

Nederlanders maken deze decembermaand vanwege de coronapandemie veel vaker gebruik van digitale hulpmiddelen om elkaar kaartjes en brieven te sturen. Volgens PostNL verstuurden deze maand al ruim 590.000 mensen een kaartje met een postzegelcode, tegen zo’n 210.000 in december vorig jaar.

www.rtlnieuws.nl

This is obviously a lot more convenient than stamps, or even printing your own labels, so you would think this will catch on elsewhere. I'm sure cash users will now be worried about the end of traditional stamps.

 

[Cambus731]

How many centuries in the future is Star Wars set? Even in Star Wars they seem to use physical currency.

It was a long time ago, in a galaxy, far far away.
Having said that, apparently George Jetson was born the other day.

 

[Spamcan81]

Indeed - but we seem to have this unfortunate tendency nowadays that those who embrace the new want to simultaneously remove the old, and don't seem to understand why some of us are quite happy with the old way of doing things, or indeed that at least in some circumstances the old ways were better and/or more robust.

I'm going to pay in cash, but I don't want to stop people using cards (or phone apps, or facial recognition, or whatever other horrors are lined up for us) if they prefer to.

Same way I rather like paper timetables on the railway, but as soon as journey planners and RealTimeTrains came along there were all the calls that 'no-one needs to use a paper timetable anymore, so they should stop doing them.' And those people have won, and there are no more paper timetables, which I think is a great loss.

Or indeed paper tickets, which there appears to be a massive campaign against now, including many posters on this forum.

Those of us who like the old ways of doing things are quite happy for people to embrace the new ways if that is what they prefer. But that understanding only seems to work in one direction.

One of the first things I did when visiting the Isle of Man a few weeks ago was to get paper timetables for the trains and buses. Much easier to browse than faff around on a mobile phone IMO. They were well used during my stay and saved draining my phone battery.
I agree with your second point too. A number of posts by supporters of e-tickets, card payments etc. seem to think that just because they prefer newer methods, others should be prevented from continuing to use older methods.

Is it like Robinson's Best Bitter, where if that's the best they can do you'd hate to taste their worst?



One key advantage of moving away from cash is that cash enables crime by being difficult if not impossible to track.

No instances of electronic theft of money of course. No on line scams, hacking of bank accounts, cloning of credit cards etc.