Southern Class 455 Withdrawal

[JonathanH]

So looks like the last 455 tomorrow I'm surprised none was preserved

Where? How? Who by? No one should be surprised that suburban units of this nature are not foremost in people's minds for preservation.

If you had £100,000 (or more) to spare, would you spend it on a class 455 unit? (I'm not saying that is the purchase price, but you need somewhere to keep it, money to keep it running, to replace the wheels when they lose their profile and loads of other upkeep costs).

The driving coach of 317345 keeps the Mark 3 derived unit alive. I'd imagine that a 769 is the best way to keep one mobile in due course.

Id be genuinely interested in your views (and those of 455_Maniac) on what a preserved Southern 455 could be used for, the way costs would be met and where it would be kept.

 

[swt_passenger]

Interesting that this one is on a Monday, wonder why that is?

Postponed from Friday. It wouldn’t have been part of the Tuesday/Thursday pattern.

 

[J burge]

There’s still the SWR ones which are closer to their original condition…

Yes forgot the swr will they be next to go shortly or have they got a bit more lease of life

Where? How? Who by? No one should be surprised that suburban units of this nature are not foremost in people's minds for preservation.

If you had £100,000 (or more) to spare, would you spend it on a class 455 unit? (I'm not saying that is the purchase price, but you need somewhere to keep it, money to keep it running, to replace the wheels when they lose their profile and loads of other upkeep costs).

The driving coach of 317345 keeps the Mark 3 derived unit alive. I'd imagine that a 769 is the best way to keep one mobile in due course.

Id be genuinely interested in your views (and those of 455_Maniac) on what a preserved Southern 455 could be used for, the way costs would be met and where it would be kept.

No I see your point and I know what your saying we all can't keep trains that are due for scrap I know one of the smiley trains had a lucky escape to Kent railway well half one and half of another

 

[Mag_seven]

If anyone wants to discuss SWR Class 455s then please start a new thread or use an existing SWR Class 455 thread - this thread is for discussion of Southern 455s (what's left of them!)

 

[fgwrich]

Where? How? Who by? No one should be surprised that suburban units of this nature are not foremost in people's minds for preservation.

If you had £100,000 (or more) to spare, would you spend it on a class 455 unit? (I'm not saying that is the purchase price, but you need somewhere to keep it, money to keep it running, to replace the wheels when they lose their profile and loads of other upkeep costs).

The driving coach of 317345 keeps the Mark 3 derived unit alive. I'd imagine that a 769 is the best way to keep one mobile in due course.

Id be genuinely interested in your views (and those of 455_Maniac) on what a preserved Southern 455 could be used for, the way costs would be met and where it would be kept.

While I completely get the point of what / where / why, it is something of a shame that the fate and preservation of the Mk3 EMU will ultimately come down to 2 single driving vehicles - this DTS and the DTS of 442401.

From a practical / parts point of view though, I wish these had gone to Booths than Newport, as I could have done with one of those proper compressor’s for a project. Oh well, I will miss that camshaft clunk and EE whine, that’s for sure.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Where? How? Who by? No one should be surprised that suburban units of this nature are not foremost in people's minds for preservation.

If you had £100,000 (or more) to spare, would you spend it on a class 455 unit? (I'm not saying that is the purchase price, but you need somewhere to keep it, money to keep it running, to replace the wheels when they lose their profile and loads of other upkeep costs).

The driving coach of 317345 keeps the Mark 3 derived unit alive. I'd imagine that a 769 is the best way to keep one mobile in due course.

Id be genuinely interested in your views (and those of 455_Maniac) on what a preserved Southern 455 could be used for, the way costs would be met and where it would be kept.

While I completely get the point of what / where / why, it is something of a shame that the fate and preservation of the Mk3 EMU will ultimately come down to 2 single driving vehicles - this DTS and the DTS of 442401.

From a practical / parts point of view though, I wish these had gone to Booths than Newport, as I could have done with one of those proper compressor’s for a project. Oh well, I will miss that camshaft clunk and EE whine, that’s for sure.

I quite agree that the romantic notion of 'preserving' a Southern 455 overlooks the entirely impractical nature of trying to 'save' something that will not fit into any conventional heritage role and would likely sit around rotting away until someone put it out of its misery. I do think it's a shame that an example of the camshaft control setup couldn't somehow be saved as an educational rig/display in the manner of the 1967 Victoria Line exhibit at the Acton depot. There is a genuine historical/education aspect to this traction package, and tomorrow we are likely to say goodbye to the very last active example of this equipment.

 

[Ewan M]

Looks like 69004 will be the loco in charge of the final scrap move tomorrow. Booked to take the Arlington 508 barriers to Stewarts Lane

 

[infobleep]

I quite agree that the romantic notion of 'preserving' a Southern 455 overlooks the entirely impractical nature of trying to 'save' something that will not fit into any conventional heritage role and would likely sit around rotting away until someone put it out of its misery. I do think it's a shame that an example of the camshaft control setup couldn't somehow be saved as an educational rig/display in the manner of the 1967 Victoria Line exhibit at the Acton depot. There is a genuine historical/education aspect to this traction package, and tomorrow we are likely to say goodbye to the very last active example of this equipment.

I guess the issue is the lack of a preserved electric railway that could support such a unit.

It wouldn't exactly be a popular tourist attraction though as it's old enough for people to be glad not to travel on it but not opd enough to be considered woe, this is from a by gone era.

Well, that is how I see it.

 

[Mikey C]

I guess the issue is the lack of a preserved electric railway that could support such a unit.

It wouldn't exactly be a popular tourist attraction though as it's old enough for people to be glad not to travel on it but not opd enough to be considered woe, this is from a by gone era.

Well, that is how I see it.

Agreed. As a static exhibit, there's nothing especially interesting or unique about a 455, especially when Mk3 relatives (319, 321, 769) are still in service

 

[cslusarc]

Are there any 3rd Rail Electrified Heritage Railways in Great Britain which a 455/456 could work on?

 

[Class360/1]

Are there any 3rd Rail Electrified Heritage Railways in Great Britain which a 455/456 could work on?

Sadly none

 

[gmaguire]

Why exactly can a preserved EMU not just run on the normal railway, where it did previously?

 

[Towers]

Why exactly can a preserved EMU not just run on the normal railway, where it did previously?

It can. And I must admit it'd be nice to think of a NSE liveried 455 surviving and coming out for the occasional tour around the juice territory. And maybe if BR were still with us one even might have done. But the reality is that on today's railway everything must be paid for and financially justified, and TOCs with their short lifespans have little or no interest in the expensive business of having toys sitting in the back of depots taking up space. Could someone like LSL take one on? Perhaps, but you then need to have drivers who'll retain their traction knowledge on what would have become a unique type, which adds many layers of expense. It just isn't really feasible, regretfully.

 

[warwickshire]

Looks like 69004 will be the loco in charge of the final scrap move tomorrow. Booked to take the Arlington 508 barriers to Stewarts Lane

Move cancelled locomotive failure on live rail record and realtime trains websites.
Should have used the class 66.
However this, these final move 3rd attempt unlucky. From a fortnight ago no roostered driver. Didn't run last Friday. Now Monday 15th August 2022.
Locomotive failure. 455809 455814 are clinging on for dear life.
If only a 66 was on.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Why exactly can a preserved EMU not just run on the normal railway, where it did previously?

It can. And I must admit it'd be nice to think of a NSE liveried 455 surviving and coming out for the occasional tour around the juice territory. And maybe if BR were still with us one even might have done. But the reality is that on today's railway everything must be paid for and financially justified, and TOCs with their short lifespans have little or no interest in the expensive business of having toys sitting in the back of depots taking up space. Could someone like LSL take one on? Perhaps, but you then need to have drivers who'll retain their traction knowledge on what would have become a unique type, which adds many layers of expense. It just isn't really feasible, regretfully.

Indeed, and even before the modern era of safety cases across multiple organisations, the long term survival of EMUs has not been good. The likelihood is that ultimately a handful of vehicles will represent a large range of classes - for example, the 'Gordon Pettit' VEP is likely to be the sole fully main line capable functioning Mark 1 based EMU representing hundreds of units and many design variations over the years.

 

[Loppylugs]

Looks like 69004 will be the loco in charge of the final scrap move tomorrow. Booked to take the Arlington 508 barriers to Stewarts Lane

Seems this is now cancelled.

 

[Class319&373]

Realtime Trains | 5Z60 0939 Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf to Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D | 15/08/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Z60 0939 departure from Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf to Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D on 15/08/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

73212 seems to be doing the final scrap move now

 

[thedbdiboy]

Seems this is now cancelled.

There's a 73 coming up from Tonbridge West Yard - not sure if that's substituting?

 

[brad465]

Are these the Arlington wagons by any chance involved, pictured on a passing train leaving Victoria just now?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Seems this is now cancelled.

They really don't want to leave

 

[LondonTrains15]

Any update on the 455 move?
Am currently at Imperial Wharf waiting, and can’t see any updates anywhere.

 

[Foxxle]

Any update on the 455 move?
Am currently at Imperial Wharf waiting, and can’t see any updates anywhere.

Haha was about to ask the same thing, I'm waiting for it too further up the line. No update on RTT yet

 

[Ewan M]

Any update on the 455 move?
Am currently at Imperial Wharf waiting, and can’t see any updates anywhere.

Think the move’s been cancelled

 

[XCTurbostar]

There's currently a line block on the Battersea Reversible so it appears to be being shunted into formation.

 

[Loppylugs]

According to RTT, 73212 is working 5Q61 from Stewarts Lane back to Tonbridge.

 

[Class319&373]

Realtime Trains | 5Q61 1315 Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf | 15/08/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q61 1315 departure from Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf on 15/08/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

73212 set to return to Tonbridge in roughly an hour, not sure what this means for the final scrap move.

 

[Class455]

Realtime Trains | 5Q61 1315 Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf | 15/08/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q61 1315 departure from Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf on 15/08/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

73212 set to return to Tonbridge in roughly an hour, not sure what this means for the final scrap move.

It could be to simply remove the last 455’s from Stewart’s lane in preparation for a move to Newport tomorrow?
Don’t forget that today (15th August) was the date stated by Eversholt for which the 455 lease would officially expire hence why the move was scheduled for today rather than tomorrow.
Don’t think the 73 can make it to Newport.

 

[Foxxle]

Realtime Trains | 5Q61 1315 Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf | 15/08/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q61 1315 departure from Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf on 15/08/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It could be to simply remove the last 455’s from Stewart’s lane in preparation for a move to Newport tomorrow?
Don’t forget that today (15th August) was the date stated by Eversholt for which the 455 lease would officially expire hence why the move was scheduled for today rather than tomorrow.
Don’t think the 73 can make it to Newport.

So are you saying that the move is actually for tomorrow? Because me and many others as it would seem are waiting for it to come past. Oops haha...

 

[Class319&373]

Realtime Trains | 5Q61 1315 Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf | 15/08/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q61 1315 departure from Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf on 15/08/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It could be to simply remove the last 455’s from Stewart’s lane in preparation for a move to Newport tomorrow?
Don’t forget that today (15th August) was the date stated by Eversholt for which the 455 lease would officially expire hence why the move was scheduled for today rather than tomorrow.
Don’t think the 73 can make it to Newport.

Realtime Trains | 0Z66 1509 Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Acton T.C. | 15/08/2022

Real-time train running information for 0Z66 1509 departure from Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Acton T.C. on 15/08/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

You could be right, I did notice this move to the Acton Yard possibly happening as well. Though it seems to just be a loco move judging by the headcode.

 

[Class455]

So are you saying that the move is actually for tomorrow? Because me and many others as it would seem are waiting for it to come past. Oops...

I would say most likely yes as today it would have lost its path due to 69004’s failure I would assume. The fact that this move back to Tonbridge is going ahead at all probably means that Eversholt want 5804 and 5819 to be moved off GTR property since today’s the day they go off lease, but don’t quote me on that one as there are other examples where this wasn’t the case. They can then be moved from there direct to Newport Docks tomorrow. Keep your eyes peeled on that though as it seems like it’s a fluid situation at present.

I’m also fairly certain that the Class 73 can’t be used to Newport as I don’t believe it can run for too long without third rail but I’m not sure, the way 73’s are powered is something that has confused me.

Would be good to see the last 455’s going for one last run down the BML though shame I’m thousands of miles away currently

Realtime Trains | 0Z66 1509 Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Acton T.C. | 15/08/2022

Real-time train running information for 0Z66 1509 departure from Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Acton T.C. on 15/08/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

You could be right, I did notice this move to the Acton Yard possibly happening as well. Though it seems to just be a loco move judging by the headcode.

Yeah I noticed the Acton move, however at a guess could this path be for the DB Class 67 that usually resides at Stewart’s Lane for the Pullman Belle?