Misused sister's oyster photo card

[jl009]

Hi all.

I have misused my sister's oyster travelling to work. I of course feel stupid to think it was okay to save money this way and won't repeat it anymore after knowing how serious it's being taken.

Previously I have emailed TfL explaining my mitigating circumstances (financial) and told them it was not an excuse as well as promising not to repeat the offence and begged for an out of court settlement stating I would compensate for all costs as well as offer unpaid work. I told them the impact it would have on my life etc with regards to future careers since I'm 18 and have dreams of pursuing a legal career.

However, they replied today saying I will be sent a single justice notice letter in the post. He also said they do not deal with cases out of court - I have seen this happen here even with TfL especially recently.

Could I ask why this is as I have seen examples of this being dealt with out of court even when intentionally used financially etc. ?

I have emailed a reply requesting a phone call but no reply yet and told them how regreful I was.

Also can a single justice procedure result in me going to prison/jail?

Any advice on next steps would be appreciated very much. Thank you all

 

[30907]

I assume your sister's card had a discount or a period travelcard, thus creating an offence?

It would help if you would upload the TfL letter(s) with personal info hidden so that we know what they are accusing you of. We can then be more helpful.

You will not go to prison if convicted.

 

[jl009]

I assume your sister's card had a discount or a period travelcard, thus creating an offence?

It would help if you would upload the TfL letter(s) with personal info hidden so that we know what they are accusing you of. We can then be more helpful.

You will not go to prison if convicted.

Hi yes that is the case.

The letter is a generic TfL letter asking for more information.

Thanks for the peace of mind!

 

[furlong]

TfL publish criteria for offering an out-of-court settlement (mentioned in a document their normal letter references, and quoted on other threads). It's the exception rather than the rule. It might sound harsh, but some would consider there is a public interest in not making such a settlement with someone considering a legal career. Mentioning that may tip the balance further towards prosecution. (Avoid wasting public money training unsuitable people.)

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

TfL historically take a more robust approach to prosecution. More recently they have softened their stance but they are unlikely to agree to an out of court settllement where there is evidence of fare evasion over a long period of time.

Can you upload the letter(s) you've been sent (with personal detauils redacted). We really need to see this to be able to offer appropriate advice.

 

[jl009]

I have previously posted on here. But it's been keeping me up and making it difficult to function at my job or study for university exams.

Per my previous post, I've been using my siblings discounted oyster travel card to travel (it wasn't once and quite a number of journeys). I of course apologised to TfL and asked for an OOC settlement which they rejected and rightly so. I mentioned my mitigations ( mainly financial ) and admitted to my mistake, stating I'm sorry and such. They have said I will be sent a SJPN in due course (which can't result in jail IIRC) but I'm unsure if TfL will proceed with the SJP or change their mind and proceed with something more serious once looking at print out of journeys (they mention they believe I wasn't just using it once, I didn't claim to either).

The offence took place in July and unsure when they will send me the SJPN. This has been making my life really miserable and constantly breaking down during the day. The fear of being imprisoned makes going about daily life a struggle.

I was only 18 at the time and was struggling financially and on top of the university stress, I never did my research and found I was eligible for the 16-18 card myself which I hope will help my case a bit in court as well as eligible for the 16-25 railcard for the next 6 years. I of course have been paying my fares now properly and have evidence on bank statements to show that if needed to judges.

Is there any possibility of me ending up in jail? I'm afraid of future career prospects too but have come to accept that more. This may sound stupid but as someone who's never been involved with the law, this has really taken an immense toll on my mental health. I also can't really afford a solicitor as I will need to save the money to pay for the court costs as best I can without burdening my family.

Finally I want to clarify what is the difference between a SJPN and a court summons. I've reviewed this forum and people in similar situations have gotten both sides, unsure what the actual difference is.

Apologies for the unstructured format of this post but any advice would really help calm my mind and hopefully allow me to carry on with university and such,

 

[MikeWh]

It is unlikely that you'll go to jail, however, it would be helpful if you could respond to the other posts in this thread. I've merged your new post into the original thread.

 

[jl009]

Welcome to the forum!

TfL historically take a more robust approach to prosecution. More recently they have softened their stance but they are unlikely to agree to an out of court settllement where there is evidence of fare evasion over a long period of time.

Can you upload the letter(s) you've been sent (with personal detauils redacted). We really need to see this to be able to offer appropriate advice.

There was no charge sent. It's essentially a TfL generic statement letter saying an offence was committed on X date and tell us your reason, we may take legal proceedings.

TfL publish criteria for offering an out-of-court settlement (mentioned in a document their normal letter references, and quoted on other threads). It's the exception rather than the rule. It might sound harsh, but some would consider there is a public interest in not making such a settlement with someone considering a legal career. Mentioning that may tip the balance further towards prosecution. (Avoid wasting public money training unsuitable people.)

I've noticed that from the comments of various other posts too but am quite interested in why some cases, people have been charged with one offence ( the one they were caught on ) compared to others who were charged with multiple offences even though its similar offence ( misuse over some time )

It is unlikely that you'll go to jail, however, it would be helpful if you could respond to the other posts in this thread. I've merged your new post into the original thread.

Thank you, I have replied but was worried I wouldn't get replies if I responded to such an old post. Thanks for the merging.

I assume your sister's card had a discount or a period travelcard, thus creating an offence?

It would help if you would upload the TfL letter(s) with personal info hidden so that we know what they are accusing you of. We can then be more helpful.

You will not go to prison if convicted.

Thank you, yes this was a discounted photo card and the letter is nothing unique - it asks for my statement. I assume the charge will be mentioned in the SJPN which will be sent in "due course" but unsure when this will be.

I was just worried about the prison part because I've seen articles of it online and such and lawyers mentioning to me they may prosecute under fraud act but others mentioned that the lawyers were likely exaggerating this.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

An SJPN is a sort of summons. As I understand it, it's used for simple prosecutions where the defendant is prepared to plead guilty so there's no need for evidence to be presented, challenged and so on. Because going to prison is the sort of thing that you might want to argue about in the way that you might not about a fine, I don't think that a case dealt with by an SJPN can end up with a prison sentence.

If I have read things properly, you seem to be at university. If so, your institution may well offer support for your mental health: try talking to your students' union or the university's welfare service who may be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[jl009]

An SJPN is a sort of summons. As I understand it, it's used for simple prosecutions where the defendant is prepared to plead guilty so there's no need for evidence to be presented, challenged and so on. Because going to prison is the sort of thing that you might want to argue about in the way that you might not about a fine, I don't think that a case dealt with by an SJPN can end up with a prison sentence.

If I have read things properly, you seem to be at university. If so, your institution may well offer support for your mental health: try talking to your students' union or the university's welfare service who may be able to point you in the right direction.

Thanks for your reply. I heard a SJPN doesn't need to be in person - ideal as a student. So is it a summons or do I reply in writing. Also they responded saying "SJPN in due course" as part of the email at the end of July but have yet to received the SJPN, you seem to be quite active on the forum so was wondering if you knew when I could expect if roughly?

I'm a uni student but it's summer and unsure if they still offer support. I imagine I will cope a lot better hopefully once this is resolved as I tend to jump to conclusions.
I understand the SJPN is for none-imprisonable offences and they mentioned it in the email after they "have reviewed the matter and will be sent the SJPN in due course".

Explaining the Single Justice Procedure in the magistrates’ court – Inside HMCTS

News and updates from the HM Courts & Tribunals Service

insidehmcts.blog.gov.uk

I responded to this email pleading one last time and ask for further consideration citing posts here where OOC have been offered and they mention " we believe you had more than on journey " so worried this may lead to something worse.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I'm a uni student but it's summer and unsure if they still offer support. I imagine I will cope a lot better hopefully once this is resolved as I tend to jump to conclusions.

The university is still there, even if the undergraduates are on vacation. Try phoning them up (during the ordinary working week!)

 

[greyman42]

Is there any possibility of me ending up in jail?

No there is not.

 

[jl009]

The university is still there, even if the undergraduates are on vacation. Try phoning them up (during the ordinary working week!)

I'll give them a ring if this persists. It happens in random intervals when I get incredibly anxious. Thank you for the help

 

[jl009]

No there is not.

Thank you for the reassurance.

 

[jl009]

Hi all, I have posted previously where they stated I would be sent a SJPN but was sent a court summons. I have attached the relevant sections of the document. Could you all please provide some advice for me and is there any chance of jail? If not how long until these convictions are spent?

They have accused me of 150+ cases which I think were mostly correct but have only pressed charges against one. I

Please advise, thanks

 

[skyhigh]

is there any chance of jail?

There is no chance of a custodial sentence.

 

[jl009]

There is no chance of a custodial sentence.

are you familiar with the charges? if so, could you inform me of the time it takes to be spent please. Thank you!

Additionally, since it is a court summons to a magistrate's, will I need to post this off or can I simply fill it out and bring it to the court on the day?

 

[AlterEgo]

A conviction under that offence is considered spent immediately, although depending on your employer and line of work you may still need to mention it. It will also remain a matter of public record for life although it will not be entered on the Police National Computer.

 

[jl009]

A conviction under that offence is considered spent immediately, although depending on your employer and line of work you may still need to mention it. It will also remain a matter of public record for life although it will not be entered on the Police National Computer.

Thank you for your reply. This has helped my state of mind a lot, I've been super stressed over the past few months.

 

[NightRyd3rr]

Hey man just wanted to say I'm in the exact same boat as you, I have to go to court soon for using my sister's oyster card also. Being a student too who is looking to go to university has been really hard for me mentally and emotionally which I think about everyday. I'm planning on bringing several character references of my school, my work and the charities I've worked at to help plead my character plus an apology letter. I know the feeling of like the world is turning upside down on you at such a young age but don't give up okay!

 

[jl009]

Hey man just wanted to say I'm in the exact same boat as you, I have to go to court soon for using my sister's oyster card also. Being a student too who is looking to go to university has been really hard for me mentally and emotionally which I think about everyday. I'm planning on bringing several character references of my school, my work and the charities I've worked at to help plead my character plus an apology letter. I know the feeling of like the world is turning upside down on you at such a young age but don't give up okay!

Thank you, my main worry is a prison sentance but most people are convinced it wont happen but i always just have that fear at the back of my mind - probably because im not familiar with the regulations etc.

Is your references aiming to get a lower fine? Or are you hoping for something else?

Hi all, I have posted previously where they stated I would be sent a SJPN but was sent a court summons. I have attached the relevant sections of the document. Could you all please provide some advice for me and is there any chance of jail? If not how long until these convictions are spent?

They have accused me of 150+ cases which I think were mostly correct but have only pressed charges against one. I

Please advise, thanks

Could someone explain the difference when they charge against all journeys compared to when they want me to admit the journeys and ask magsitrate to consider them before sentencing is passed.

They will still ask for the rest of the joirneys money back so i assume its a convenience matter?

 

[AlterEgo]

Could someone explain the difference when they charge against all journeys compared to when they want me to admit the journeys and ask magsitrate to consider them before sentencing is passed.

"Taking other offences into consideration" is basically saving the court's time. They will prosecute you for one example offence, and you ask the magistrates to take X number of other, similar offences into consideration. This means that your sentence and any compensation will reflect the totality of the offending.

You should get proper legal advice if you are faced with a decision to admit to other offences and have them taken into consideration in court.

 

[jl009]

"Taking other offences into consideration" is basically saving the court's time. They will prosecute you for one example offence, and you ask the magistrates to take X number of other, similar offences into consideration. This means that your sentence and any compensation will reflect the totality of the offending.

You should get proper legal advice if you are faced with a decision to admit to other offences and have them taken into consideration in court.

Is there any point in legal advice if I wish to admit to all other offences since they are correct. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but even though there are 150+ offences listed, the final decision under this offence charge should still be a fine based on my financial circumstances.

I also assume I will only have one charge on my record

 

[30907]

Is there any point in legal advice if I wish to admit to all other offences since they are correct. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but even though there are 150+ offences listed, the final decision under this offence charge should still be a fine based on my financial circumstances.

Yes, but (1) the amount of compensation you will be asked to pay will certainly be affected and (2) the starting point of the fine (before assessing your finances) may be nearer the upper limit than otherwise.

I also assume I will only have one charge on my record

Correct.

 

[georgette]

Hi man, happens same to me and I m still waiting the answer but do you ask for your sister oyster sister s back? Thank you

 

[spag23]

From TfL's Conditions:

3.1.3 We reserve the right to prevent the use of your Oyster card, smartcard or contactless payment card for travel. We may withdraw or cancel your Oyster card if it is misused. It may not be returned whether or not the misuse was by the registered card holder and you may forfeit the right to any refund on the unused value of any season ticket or pay as you go credit and any deposit.

 

[greyman42]

Thank you, my main worry is a prison sentance but most people are convinced it wont happen but i always just have that fear at the back of my mind - probably because im not familiar with the regulations etc.

There is no chance of you receiving a prison sentence so stop worrying about it.

 

[jl009]

I am filling out my court summons right now. I have a situation where it has the following image and then signature below it. Should I sign this below if I intend to plead guilty?

The part above it where it says my trial will not be heard on that date is confusing so unsure if I should just tick or sign and tick.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I am filling out my court summons right now. I have a situation where it has the following image and then signature below it. Should I sign this below if I intend to plead guilty?

The part above it where it says my trial will not be heard on that date is confusing so unsure if I should just tick or sign and tick.

They’ll want to know that it was you who filled in the form (not someone else going behind your back). So sign it, and if there is any doubt about the form they can ask you for another signature and then they will be able to compare them and make sure they’re from the same person.