Dating apps: good or bad for society?

[Elwyn]

There’s always been a market for finding partners through advertising. Way before the internet came along, I remember magazines like Time Out and Private Eye being stuffed with pages of “Lonely Hearts” adverts. And in the 1920s and later there were dating agencies (maybe they called themselves marriage agencies but the idea was the same). You had to fill out a form and pay a fee – sometimes quite significant, and they’d try and match you with someone suitable. Newspapers in Victorian times had adverts along the lines of “Well presented widow, Bognor Regis, would like to meet… etc.”

So human beings have been at this for several hundred years but what’s happened recently is technology has made it easier and in most cases cheaper. I wonder what the success rate was from those adverts before Tinder existed? (Somebody’s probably done a Phd on it).

 

[AlterEgo]

How did people meet before apps? Usually at social events or something like that, sometimes at uni, work or nightclubs etc. Surely you have to actively try to find people and not just wait for it though?

Lots of people used to meet through social circles without “looking”. And still do. My advice is to relax and not look too hard!

 

[Strathclyder]

The only app of this nature I've ever used is Grindr on my Galaxy S6 (since replaced with a Xperia 10 II).

As a gay man, the dating pool available to me is a lot smaller than it otherwise would be as already pointed out above. Yeah, I get that Grindr is intended as a casual hookup app than a dating one, but in any case, I didn't use it much and I ended up deleting it as, apart from anything else, it wasn't doing my mental health much good in that so many men just wanted to 'get with me' and nothing more (that should be a boost to my self-esteem/image on a surface level, but when it's just for that sorta thing, it tends to drag it right back down to earth and through the floor). And yes, it can be argued that the likes of Reddit etc, are little better in this respect, but at least there, you can get an idea of a guy's interests/passions through his posts and forge a connection through those if they happen to match yours before actually meeting and not just base everything off of images of them in artificial poses.

Most of my dates or 'rendezvous' (don't judge me lol) have actually ended up happening through Reddit, which I wasn't expecting to be quite honest. Most of my 'matches' have been a result of mutual attraction, shared interests and/or general chemistry. After our encounter, most either (predictably) 'ghost' me - it's never pleasent when it happens, but it gets somewhat easier to deal with as time goes on - while others I keep in touch with and even arrange future meetups/dates with if we feel like there's a connection there.

TL;DR - it's been something of a mixed bag in my experience.

 

[joebassman]

I agree - to be successful (i.e. to escape with dignity and health intact!) on these sites/apps requires a certain mental fortitude. Finding a successful match online is a numbers game and consequently comes with plenty of rejection on the way, whether explicit or implied. And this is how it was pre-Tinder; I dread to think how disposable one might feel after spending any length of time on there.

THC

Wasn't it similar with regular dating?

My dad's cousin would always be with a partner that many would consider out of his league. But he would ask loads of women out and receive many rejections before he met someone.

Many people have had traumatising experiences of being laughed at, mocked and told no chance when asking people out on real life throughout the ages. I guess the only difference now is at least one is at home and not prone to being laughed at by their mates by the rejections.

 

[THC]

Wasn't it similar with regular dating?

My dad's cousin would always be with a partner that many would consider out of his league. But he would ask loads of women out and receive many rejections before he met someone.

Many people have had traumatising experiences of being laughed at, mocked and told no chance when asking people out on real life throughout the ages. I guess the only difference now is at least one is at home and not prone to being laughed at by their mates by the rejections.

Not necessarily so, unless every real world attempt one makes at engaging a woman in conversation is to try and chat her up. The people on dating sites/apps are for the most part there for similar reasons, whether to hook up or find something more. Not an assumption that should ever be made in real life!

THC

 

[Tetchytyke]

Rejection is part of life, dating sites are no different to any other aspect of life. Some people are good at delivering rejection kindly and some are not. Some people are good at accepting rejection and moving on, and others are not.

Dating sites are no different to any other part of life. Everyone puts their best picture up, glosses up their life. You put your glad rags on when you're out out for a night, it's no different.

Not everyone is honest about who they are. Go to any nightclub and you'll see plenty of married people pretending they're not.

I married my first wife young, I was 21 and I'd met her when I was 17. We inevitably had a joint social circle and so when we split just I turned 30, turning to dating sites seemed natural, especially as I wasn't looking for anything serious. And I know from experience that, no matter how mature you both are, ending up in bed with a friend is a little awkward afterwards when you both realise you just want to be friends.

As with anything, there are stories to make you cringe- a date I had with a woman who wasn't over her ex (who was also a woman) was my lowlight. I know I hurt one person as she was a lot more into me than I was with her. But I also met my wife and we've been together 10 years now. This was OKCupid, where it wasn't just photos, and I'm glad it was before Tinder. But there's nothing wrong with dating sites.

 

[Giugiaro]

I had a go at the apps this summer since I've never dated (20 year old)

Ah, you're still very young!

My first love came from sharing my parent's home with an exchange student that chose to spend Christmas with a Portuguese family.
It turns out that the Erasmus Student Network is quite sly at choosing who goes with who in these Christmas and Easter events!

I was turning 23 at the time.

 

[PTR 444]

My first experience with dating apps was in 2019 when a (female) friend suggested I download Tinder to help enhance my chances of finding a partner. I did so and set up my profile using generic, unedited photos of myself and no bio just to see how things would go. Surprisingly, I did get quite a few matches (about 10 in one month), although I was too nervous to make a move in messaging most of these, and the ones that I did never messaged me back.

Having a roughly equal ratio of male to female people within my friend circle, I can say from experience and advice that dating apps seem to favour women over men, with the former being particularly spoilt for choice on matches. I don’t know whether this is more down to human nature or the precise algorithm of the apps involved, but one behaviour which is common on these apps is that men will swipe right on pretty much every woman who is somewhat attractive, whereas women don’t do the same for men. By the time they’ve joined the app, women are already inundated with 99+ matches that they have to become far more picky in order to avoid becoming overwhelmed with potential advances from men. The constant need to make your profile stand out to gain matches has made app-based dating more akin to applying for several jobs at once, which I imagine must be really time consuming for people who already lead very busy lives.

While I believe dating apps have potential to provide a great opportunity for people who want to start dating but are limited by factors such as low self-esteem, social anxiety or lack of opportunities to meet local people, I feel that this potential is never fully realised due to the algorithm favouring impossibly high standards. Women being inundated with constant unwanted attention from men is one problem, but so is the issue of loneliness caused by men trying so hard and never getting anywhere with dating, subsequently leading to feelings of worthlessness and unwantedness. It is for that reason that I stopped using Tinder for good at the end of 2020, having spent some long periods off the app.

About this time last year, two of my female cousins met their current partners on another dating app, Bumble. From what I’ve heard about this app, only women are allowed to send the first message in heterosexual matches, benefitting them as they do not have to contend with influxes of messages from men. Men themselves also benefit as women messaging first gives them a huge confidence boost, making them less socially anxious and more inclined to keep the conversation going. If I ever go back to app-based dating, I would definitely use Bumble over Tinder, but sadly my fear of rejection is preventing me from doing so until I achieve certain statuses which society expects us to have.

Maybe the old-fashioned way of doing things is much better after all.

 

[Sorcerer]

So the other day I said that I've never used apps and only had other people's experiences. Well I must now amend my position and say that no less than 24 hours after signing up for Bumble that these apps are absolute time-wasters for anyone whose not conventionally attractive, because otherwise the algorithm is not in your favour. My biggest issue is that the app expects me to pay nine quid at a bare minimum to see who likes me, otherwise I just have to hope I swipe right on them to get a match, so therefore I already know it will probably be a while before I get a single match. Then it also wants you to pay for advanced filters which means that despite me explicitly stating I want something casual, I still get a few profiles that want relationships, and despite me saying I never want kids, many profiles still want them someday, and a few were even single mothers (one of which was only 20!). I would much rather get a few more apps than pay for any premium features which I'm now sure is actually part of their business model to make lonely people desperate enough to pay for things while also benefiting attractive people and thus getting good reviews.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't advise anyone to use them. I understand some people have success stories, but as someone who isn't seeking a serious relationship it would probably be better for me to just do it the old way by going out and heading to Matthew Street and actually hooking up in person with real face-to-face chemistry. The obstacles in that situation are mostly the fact that the women I meet have boyfriends already, aren't interested, or quite simply I'm not in the right place therefore can't find a match, but at least that struggle is actually free. The only reason I ever thought about dating apps at all was because I'm introverted and don't like nightclubs or parties and therefore my scene for finding what I want is kind of limited. In short, my opinion on the matter is that it's probably better to try and meet someone in person before thinking about dating apps unless you're attractive enough, in which case you probably won't need them anyway unless you're introverted like me or want to increase your partner count as high as possible. Maybe I'll change my mind once again soon though, who knows?

 

[johncrossley]

To get around the primary problem with dating apps and online dating (men sending women lots of messages and women sending men hardly any) I wonder if sites where men have to pay a significant amount of money to join are a better bet? For example, seeking.com.

 

[Busaholic]

Never been on a 'date' in my life. Now a widower, after 53 years, but I've had other relationships. I'd like to meet someone else, more for companionship, not necessarily living together, but the idea of trawling for somebody sympatico is frightening, app or no app.

 

[D6130]

I can't help but wonder whether there is scope for a dating forum here on RUKF, as there are many people on here with similar interests. What would the admins/moderators think about that?

 

[johncrossley]

I can't help but wonder whether there is scope for a dating forum here on RUKF, as there are many people on here with similar interests. What would the admins/moderators think about that?

It would be useless for heterosexual men.

 

[D6130]

It would be useless for heterosexual men.

You're probably correct....although there are a few more women on here than you might imagine. It would still give forum members of any sexual orientation the chance to seek a partner with similar interests if they wish to do so.

 

[Sorcerer]

To get around the primary problem with dating apps and online dating (men sending women lots of messages and women sending men hardly any) I wonder if sites where men have to pay a significant amount of money to join are a better bet? For example, seeking.com.

To be honest this probably wouldn't help much in my opinion because it would simply narrow the pool. I think the exact same problems would occur as it would with Bumble where it's either men desperate enough to pay will do so to no avail or men who are well-off and attractive enough will not really need to pay because they will either get so many matches elsewhere and probably not even sign up in the first place because of real world success. The fact is, dating in any case is very much skewed in favour of women who generally have more options than men hence your aforementioned where we see men sending lots of message and women hardly sending any. All dating apps really do is expand potential choices for attractive people. It's not some grand conspiracy, it's just natural selection on a grand scale.

 

[johncrossley]

You're probably correct....although there are a few more women on here than you might imagine. It would still give forum members of any sexual orientation the chance to seek a partner with similar interests if they wish to do so.

For women it would be the same problem as in normal online dating, but even more so. They would get far too many messages.

 

[D6130]

For women it would be the same problem as in normal online dating, but even more so. They would get far too many messages.

Unfortunately true. It was just an idea....and not a very good one at that!

 

[GS250]

I think dating websites were generally a power of good. You had to make some effort to make contact and often there would be a small subscription fee to attempt to cut out the timewasters. There were also chatrooms which became a bit of a magnet for pick up artists and players. 'Free' holiday in the USA courtesy 'datebritishguys' anyone else ?

A lot changed in 2012 when Tinder came onto the market. It meant nearly instant and free access to other 'available' people and the ability to rapidly 'upgrade' to something better. That in itself has become a big problem for the relationship market as some simply cannot settle down and continue to play hypergamy.

I'll happily admit I was a bit of a 'player' up until around 5 years ago so used to benefit from these apps. However, for those seeking something meaningful I think they are not good at all for overall society. For average men, they can be extremely demoralising as women have access to the top 20% (ie the ones they are immediately attracted to). For women, they can lead to a constant circle of frustration as the top men generally bounce from one to another and have no need to settle down for access to the bedroom. Yes, there can be avenues for the middle ground to connect but it can be a long, frustrating and quite frankly demoralising process.

Saying all that though....I met my current long term GF on Tinder although was on a train related holiday in Aviemore at the time. She was driving up the A9 to Skye. Maybe it depends where in the country (or World) where you are swiping?

 

[Tetchytyke]

The fact is, dating in any case is very much skewed in favour of women who generally have more options than men

I really don't think that's true at all. Women have exactly the same issues in making connections with people that men do.

The reason why women message less is cultural.

It's worth pointing out that "involuntary celibacy"- incel- is a term coined by a female student in Canada in the early 90s.

 

[Sorcerer]

I really don't think that's true at all. Women have exactly the same issues in making connections with people that men do.

I mean yeah, there are no shortage of women with issues in making connections, but that's not quite the same as getting likes or matches or messages in the first place. Swipestats, which tracks Tinder data, shows that women match more frequently with those that they like than men do. Perhaps a more accurate statement on my half would've been that online dating specifically is heavily skewed in favour of women.



Additionally there is data that also shows that young men are having less sex than women in the US, and given our similar cultures and ties I wouldn't be surprised if there was a similar trend in the UK either now or later. That said, you should take it with a pinch of salt since it is an American-centric study, and I did attempt to find a more UK-based study but haven't managed to so far, but I think in general though it still shows that when it comes to the dating game in western society, both online and offline, that men definitely have it harder than women.

Findings In this survey study of US adults from 2000 to 2018, sexual inactivity increased among men aged 18 to 24 years and 25 to 34 years and women aged 25 to 34 years during the study period, with the increase among men mainly occurring among unmarried individuals. Men with lower income and with part-time or no employment were more likely to be sexually inactive, as were men and women who were students.

Between 2000-2002 and 2016-2018, the proportion of 18- to 24-year-old individuals who reported having had no sexual activity in the past year increased among men (18.9% vs 30.9%; age-adjusted odds ratio [aOR] for trend across survey periods, 1.20; 95% CI, 1.04-1.39) but not among women (15.1% vs 19.1%; aOR for trend, 1.03; 95% CI, 0.89-1.18). Smaller absolute increases in sexual inactivity were observed among those aged 25 to 34 years for both men (7.0% vs 14.1%; aOR for trend, 1.23; 95% CI, 1.07-1.42) and women (7.0% vs 12.6%; aOR for trend, 1.17; 95% CI, 1.01-1.35) but not among those aged 35 to 44 years.

In our study, sexual inactivity in younger age groups was more common among men than women, and the increase in sexual inactivity was observed only among men identifying as heterosexual, although educational level was not associated with any measure of sexual activity, and being a student was associated with sexual inactivity among men and women. Moreover, the increase in sexual inactivity among men remained after adjustment for changes in employment status.

The study also states:

Several hypotheses for why individuals engage in less sexual activity have been proposed. Although theories regarding the use of pornography and longer working hours were not supported by our analyses, plausible reasons include changes in sexual norms that may affect actual and reported sexual activity; the stress and busyness of modern life in which leisure, work, and intimate relationships need to be juggled; and the supply of online entertainment that may compete with sexual activity.

To bring this back to topic, I think the reasons given may help provide an argument in favour of why the apps can do good and have a place in society because with increasing busyness and everyday life as well as more entertainment with the advent of the internet, there's less incentive to go out and meet people the old fashioned way at bars and pubs. That said, the data doesn't demonstrably show that it's beneficial because while it still remains a numbers game like in real life where you have to keep trying until you meet someone, with online apps the options pool is wider, so anyone who was struggling is most likely not going to have an easier time on the apps, and in fact may even have worse luck than in person.

The reason why women message less is cultural.

I think that probably does play a part to some degree because men are still expected to be the initiators and so anyone whose not confident enough might not take the initiative. Bumble at least makes the women message first which is why I think it's one of the better apps for men, but you'd still need to get a match first which is difficult for reasons I have stated. You either have to be good looking enough to get a lucky match, or you have to pay-to-win with the premium features which at beast might allow you to see who likes you instead of taking a gamble on a lucky match. Honestly, the more I think about this subject the more I think that dating apps are bad for society. I want to keep an open mind though and will still argue that there is good and bad elements to them.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Swipestats, which tracks Tinder data, shows that women match more frequently with those that they like than men do.

I'd be interested in their methodology. Men are more likely to play the numbers game by swiping right on everyone, which will skew the stats for both genders; matches per swipe are the same for both, according to that infographic.

You either have to be good looking enough to get a lucky match, or you have to pay-to-win with the premium features which at beast might allow you to see who likes you

Dating websites make their money by persuading people they need to buy all the extra features, and it has definitely got more cynical in recent years. The OK Cupid model has gone, and that's a real shame.

There isn't one definition of good looking, however.

 

[Sorcerer]

I'd be interested in their methodology. Men are more likely to play the numbers game by swiping right on everyone, which will skew the stats for both genders; matches per swipe are the same for both, according to that infographic.

True, I have heard of men swiping right on everyone. Regardless, Swipestats compares people's data submitted to them anonymously by individuals and then compares them to other demographics around the world. I don't know how helpful that is to you in regards to their methodology, but I hope it at least offers some insight for you. It applies only to Tinder though.

Dating websites make their money by persuading people they need to buy all the extra features, and it has definitely got more cynical in recent years. The OK Cupid model has gone, and that's a real shame.

Most definitely. As I've previously said I feel like part of their business model is trying to persuade lonely and struggling people to purchase premium products even though it doesn't increase their chances of getting matches. In the case of Bumble it asks you to pay for premium to see who liked you. Otherwise you have to hope you swipe on them by chance. Attractive people will naturally get more swipes and by extension will benefit with more matches. Perhaps that is just me being cynical though.

 

[Giugiaro]

I think that probably does play a part to some degree because men are still expected to be the initiators and so anyone whose not confident enough might not take the initiative.

Plays well with the Japanese creation myth. Izanagi and Izanami's first two children had severe deformities.

The reason? The gods said:

The male deity should have spoken first in greeting during the marriage ceremony.

Why is this cultural expectation so prevalent in our global society?

 

[AlterEgo]

Why is this cultural expectation so prevalent in our global society?

Because women are gatekeepers who are not supposed to appear too keen, lest their attraction diminish.

 

[yorksrob]

Because women are gatekeepers who are not supposed to appear too keen, lest their attraction diminish.

Does that make men the Keymasters ?

 

[Giugiaro]

Because women are gatekeepers who are not supposed to appear too keen, lest their attraction diminish.

Does that make men the Keymasters ?

I don't like where this is going...

 

[GS250]

Does that make men the Keymasters ?

In my experience. Women are the gatekeepers of bedroom fun. Men are the gatekeepers of long term relationships.

 

[JamesT]

I don't like where this is going...

Did you just see a dog with glowing red eyes go past the window?

 

[C J Snarzell]

My own honest opinion of dating sites is - they are not great.

I've used a handful of them over the last 10 years, including Match.com, Zoosch, My Single Friend and more recently the mobile phone dating apps Hinge and Bumble.

The biggest issue with most of these sites is that they are built around making money out of the consumer and as soon as you disclose your credit/debit card payment details, the barriers go up and it seems it is impossible to connect with anyone.

I recall using Match.com (or should I say Match.con!). I probably sent about 30 polite messages to women on there and had zero replies during the time I had a month's subscription. The receiptient's of the messages had to be subscribed members themselves to read your message and I suspect a lot of profiles were outdated or 'inactive' members.

The online dating industry seems awash now with non-genuine people who are not necessarily after dating or potential relationships which just makes it harder for those eager to meet the right person. Every other female profile I've seem on Hinge is a typical bedroom mirror 'selfie' and it is almost as if the app serves as nothing more than an ego boost for many people (who are probably 'players' for once of a better word).

I have tried speed dating a couple of times, but that seems very hit & miss. I personally would recommend to anyone to at least try it once just for the experience as it seems a lot more genuine than wasting hours of your life messaging people on-line who you are never likely to hear back from.

CJ

 

[Strathclyder]

This is absolutely a big thing too, and not just related to potential embarrassment around getting it wrong - the assurance of using an app is that you can assume the person you're approaching is to at least some extent receptive of the approach, and that's especially valuable if, for example, you're trying to approach somebody of the same gender.

Indeed, particularly the bolded part. Additionally, if you have Aspergers like I do, meeting new people for any reason, let alone dating, can be rather daunting to say the least. It's a small miracle that I've had the confidence to do so at all.