SSmith2009
Member
Red Arrow Scania i4 75 (FJ10 OXR) got a bit hot this morning in Derby
BBC News Video: https://fb.watch/eIEwjDcJ7j/
BBC News Video: https://fb.watch/eIEwjDcJ7j/
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Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Bus News
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Skymonster
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What with Notts and Derby 44 spontaneously combusting a couple of weeks ago (and now with the scrap merchant), it seems like Wellglade has found a way of getting rid of surplus vehicles
derbybusdepot
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Trent Barton 141 route will be operated by Stagecoach from 4th September to the same timetable.
From the same date Kinchbus are reducing route 2. The route will only operate between Loughborough and Sileby Mon to Sat daytimes every 1hr 10/20 minutes, requiring 1 bus.
Pre covid the route operated every 30 minutes during the day, with an hourly evening and Sunday service until 11pm, with a pvr of 4 or 5 buses?
A much reduced "temporary" timetable has been in use for several months now, and many services have continued to be cancelled at short notice due to the "national driver shortage" in trent Barton land. I would say this is a major factor resulting in a decline in usage.
From the same date Kinchbus are reducing route 2. The route will only operate between Loughborough and Sileby Mon to Sat daytimes every 1hr 10/20 minutes, requiring 1 bus.
Pre covid the route operated every 30 minutes during the day, with an hourly evening and Sunday service until 11pm, with a pvr of 4 or 5 buses?
A much reduced "temporary" timetable has been in use for several months now, and many services have continued to be cancelled at short notice due to the "national driver shortage" in trent Barton land. I would say this is a major factor resulting in a decline in usage.
Once people find other transport that’s more reliable and sometimes cheaper, they don’t go back. Trent Barton and Kinchbus have failed catastrophically at keeping their customer base post-COVID
I wouldn’t be surprised if more of these temporary cuts become permanent, hopefully not as severe as Kinchbus 2. The H1 is an example, it was reduced from every 10 minutes to 15 to help with driver shortages but it’s now going through the registration process to make the 15 minute frequency permanent
STINT47
Member
Kinchbus are saying on their website..
"Unfortunately, the route has been losing customers for a number of years after being heavily affected by both longstanding roadworks and Covid shutdowns"
I guess it has nothing to do with their management of this route then? Today for example the 12:45 and 13:45 didn't run due to driver shortages leaving a three hour gap in the service. In Kinchbus land this has no impact on current or future passenger numbers it's down to big bad covid and roadworks.
It's all a but depressing to see a successful route running every 30 minuets reduced this and a scandal that a bus company is able to get away with it.
"Unfortunately, the route has been losing customers for a number of years after being heavily affected by both longstanding roadworks and Covid shutdowns"
I guess it has nothing to do with their management of this route then? Today for example the 12:45 and 13:45 didn't run due to driver shortages leaving a three hour gap in the service. In Kinchbus land this has no impact on current or future passenger numbers it's down to big bad covid and roadworks.
It's all a but depressing to see a successful route running every 30 minuets reduced this and a scandal that a bus company is able to get away with it.
One of the extreme cases of this was a few Fridays ago where all routes except Skylink were suspended after 6pm! There is no wonder people rely on other transport now, they won’t get stranded. I fear that these cuts to the Kinchbus 2 will only make it worse for itself
SSmith2009
Member
Such a shame really, it was a PVR of 5
Although at least one or two of the sprint solos seem to be the norm just lately on the 2 while the citaros are on skylink
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Don't forget the download weekend fiasco
That’s a difficult one. I can see they tried their best with the limited resources they had, they used common sense and had a pool of buses and drivers that were used on any route rather than being strict about the brand like normal (a Calverton branded Volvo running to Leicester on Skylink for example), but I think more could have been done to ensure reliability was best, for example only running a high frequency shuttle to East Midlands Parkway to connect with the train to Nottingham, Derby and Leicester. A cheaper bus ticket for those connecting on the train could have then alleviated the crowding on Skylink services. Not sure whether that would have worked as it’s just a quick idea I came up with
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In terms of Trent Barton fleet news, Scania 625 has been withdrawn from Skylink Express due to rising costs in repairs. There are talks of three Enviros being earmarked for this service as three are being freed up with service reductions (107/108 off Mickleover and 109 off the spare pool, and a shorter Allestree enviro to replace 109), this is no more than a rumour albeit an option that’s been explored by the operator themselves
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ChrisC
Established Member
I think this is good news, but still sad to see Trent Barton and their friendly helpful drivers on this route go after so many years. It certainly makes sense for Stagecoach to run the Mansfield end of the route as they already run routes to Sutton in Ashfield, Rainworth, Blidworth and Ravenshead. It will be good for passengers in those areas to be able to use the same day and weekly tickets on all buses. How it will work out at the Nottingham end of the route is a different matter, especially as Trent Barton tickets including Mango will no longer be able to be used on this route from Hucknall to both Nottingham and Mansfield. It does open up cheaper journey opportunities from Hucknall, Linby and Papplewick to destinations on Stagecoach routes beyond Mansfield and an easy change of bus in Ravenshead onto the Pronto route to Chesterfield. For example it will cut the fare from Hucknall to Chesterfield and beyond by half. However, without advertising will people even be aware of this. Back in Stagecoach’s better days they probably would have seen this as a good opportunity to expand into Trent Barton’s main area.
How successful it will be I have no idea. Passenger numbers are so low at the moment. People in many of the villages, and even in the Hucknall and Bestwood areas have stopped using the 141 due to such poor reliability. Even today quite a number of buses are cancelled including the first bus in each direction this morning and the last bus this evening. Not good when the last bus is already so early. I used to use it regularly but I don’t think I’ve used it for nearly 6 months now because like so many others I was so fed up of waiting for buses which didn’t turn up. I’m going to give it a good try from September and hopefully others will, but if Stagecoach start cancelling buses and don’t come up with attractive fares to encourage the passengers to come back, the route the will not last beyond this time next year.
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SSmith2009
Member
Another day with a long list of Kinchbus cancellations and no late buses on the 2, 9 and 12 again
I can see Skylink eventually being cutback next to every 30 mins
I can see Skylink eventually being cutback next to every 30 mins
I’m going to address the elephant in the room now…
With Stagecoach Mansfield taking on the 141, and also a NottsBus On Demand DRT minibus service too, I’m left wondering where the drivers are going to magically appear from before the end of the month? All the more so given that today, they have 61 cancellations showing on Twitter (@StagecoachEMid - too many tweets to embed each one, sorry!) due to a lack of drivers.
How can any company justify taking on further work at a time they can’t cover what they already have?
With Stagecoach Mansfield taking on the 141, and also a NottsBus On Demand DRT minibus service too, I’m left wondering where the drivers are going to magically appear from before the end of the month? All the more so given that today, they have 61 cancellations showing on Twitter (@StagecoachEMid - too many tweets to embed each one, sorry!) due to a lack of drivers.
How can any company justify taking on further work at a time they can’t cover what they already have?
I know they are withdrawing the Mansfield to Sheffield 53 service soon, but obviously that wouldn't cut it and certainly won't fix any driver shortages if they're still taking on more work. I do wonder how they will make the 141 work. Obviously it didn't work with trentbarton, however Stagecoach is already known in the Sutton to Blidworth section so ticketing might be easier for people elsewhere on the network. I don't think the section south of Blidworth will work very well nor will it last long.
Qwerty133
Established Member
Given the ongoing shortage of drivers isn’t it time that Wellglade abandoned their long standing policy of not using double deckers on some of the most frequent routes in order to reduce the frequency (and number of drivers needed) without reducing capacity.
pjnathanail
Member
Whilst there may well be logic in this approach, the lead times of doing this are 9-12 months away, assuming new deckers are used. And even if they purchased and refurbished second hand deckers, that’s a 3-4 month minimum project. Plus there’d need to be some substantial engineering change as their long serving engineers may not have worked on deckers for some time. So they need a shorter term mitigation also - which sadly may need to be the same frequency reductions, but with the single decks they already have. At least midi routes could be upgraded to full size buses displaced from reduced frequencies on front line routes under this plan. They need to do something urgently though - the damage they’re doing to the East Midlands’ bus network is large scale and inexcusable.
The 53 isn't going anywhere now - https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/en-gb/newsupdates/service-changes shows the following:
...so no changes to driver requirements as far as that's concerned. Not sure if there are any other service changes coming up in the area which would release a few drivers?
Oh wow I must have missed that! I can’t see any other changes, so my guess is that taking on the 141 is in fact counter-productive. Heading into speculation territory, I can imagine that this time next year the route will only run Blidworth to Sutton anyway
derbybusdepot
Member
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Indeed, the continuation of the government grant is doing more harm than good in many places.
Ultimately it has encouraged some operators to continue to attempt to provide a pre COVID level of service, even though they do not have the resources available to provide it, in order to receive maximum amount of grant money. In turn this has led to unreliable services, and a further damaged image/reputation resulting in a further decline in bus usage.
Will 6 months,and several £££ see the situation being better or worse?
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Trent Barton announce more cuts from 2nd October.
In fairness they are not to excessive, although have not seen the timetables/looked at changes in too much detail.
Black Cat and Amberline branding dropped, and routes split in two. Parts of Derby to Heanor section on amberline incorporated into the comet. No service to Horsley Woodhouse?
21 will no longer run through to Nottingham. Other variations to Ilkeston area services may be an improvement.
Kinch skylink Derby will not serve some of villages, which will be a loss to them.
Trentbarton announces cancellation of bus services in post-Covid shake-up
The bus provider says some routes are 'loss-making' and need to be scrapped
www.derbytelegraph.co.uk
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Trent Barton announce more cuts from 2nd October.
In fairness they are not to excessive, although have not seen the timetables/looked at changes in too much detail.
Black Cat and Amberline branding dropped, and routes split in two. Parts of Derby to Heanor section on amberline incorporated into the comet. No service to Horsley Woodhouse?
21 will no longer run through to Nottingham. Other variations to Ilkeston area services may be an improvement.
Kinch skylink Derby will not serve some of villages, which will be a loss to them.
Trentbarton announces cancellation of bus services in post-Covid shake-up
The bus provider says some routes are 'loss-making' and need to be scrapped
The full list of changes is here: Trent Barton October Service Changes
In order to adapt to post-pandemic patterns of customer travel and due to several services having not returned to their pre-pandemic customer numbers, we're having to make changes to our network.
Over the last few months we’ve been working with local authorities and other public transport operators to match resources with projected usage. Through these discussions we have been able to retain more of the network than would otherwise have been possible.
We regret having to make these changes, however they are necessary to ensure our network can be sustainable long term, so we can help as many people travel as possible.
Drivers currently working on all routes affected will all be redeployed to other services, which will ease the recent disruption to the timetables due to the industry-wide shortage of drivers.
The changes from 2 October are as follows:
the comet | New stops will be added between Kilburn and Clay Cross. the comet will also provide links from Little Eaton to Derby, Ripley, Alfreton and through to Chesterfield.
my15 | Ilkeston to Long Eaton and return evening journeys after 7pm will be withdrawn. There will be no changes to the journeys between Ilkeston and East Midlands Airport at these times.
the nines | There will be changes to the timetable to improve reliability. An additonal early morning journey from Sutton to Derby for commuters will be added.
skylink Derby | Improved frequency to East Midlands Gateway and Kegworth. Diseworth and Long Whatton will no longer be served.
skylink Nottingham | East Midlands Gateway to Loughborough journeys will be withdrawn. Evening journeys to and from Coalville after 8pm will also be withdrawn.
the threes | Mansfield night owl journeys will be withdrawn.
90 | Evening journeys may be subject to change or withdrawal, but they are currenly under review with Derbyshire County Council. Please check back for further updates.
20, 21, amberline, black cat, connect C1 & C2 | A network centred on Ilkeston and Heanor will provide half-hourly links between the towns, with hourly extensions at each end. From Ilkeston, these will be from West Hallam and Kirk Hallam. From Heanor, these will be to Hucknall via the amberline, which will also cover Harrier Park in Hucknall in place of the C1, and Mansfield via the black cat. Between Heanor and Eastwood, these will give a 10 minute frequency when combined with rainbow one.
This new network will provide a link to Hucknall train/tram station from the Kimberley and Watnall areas. A new Sunday service between Langley Mill and Hucknall will be introduced.
Kirk Hallam to Nottingham and Heanor to Derby (amberline journeys) will be withdrawn. Although other routes will still enable journeys, including through connections. A new Sunday service will replace 20 between New Stapleford, Beeston Rylands and Nottingham.
Please find a map displaying the adapted routes below.
Regrettably, we must take some difficult decisions about how our network can be sustainable in the long term so we can help as many people travel as possible.
This network review also enabled us to make some improvements to various routes, looking at putting more journeys on at key times for workers and improving reliability so we run on time even more of the time.
Skymonster
Established Member
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- 7 Feb 2012
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- 1,995
Another issue I have with Wellglade (TrentBarton) at present is the supposedly premium Red Arrow. Increasingly from my experience there seems to be Mango branded Optares on it rather than the six-wheel Volvos. Indeed, bustimes today suggests only five of the nine Volvos are out, with one being sidelined for over a month and two more for around two weeks. So today’s service is five proper Red Arrow buses and four that provide a less than premium experience. OK, the Irizar that was supposed to be spare anyway burned, but still it seems that there is particularly poor availability of the dedicated vehicles on the Red Arrow at the moment. I get some folks have no choice and have to take what turns up, but if TB wants to maintain the premium nature of the service and commitment of its customers it needs to get more Volvos out on the road again.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Waiting at Nottingham station bus stops half an hour ago, I think I saw three southbound keyworths pass within 10min, and two were at the stop at the same time. Is that where all the drivers have gone?
The 2, 22 and 23 in Nottingham are being removed with a new 3A filling the gap ( which I think also means a reduction of frequency of the 3 on part of its route)
https://www.nctx.co.uk/new-nct-service-silverdale-and-wilford-village
I'm not surprised the 2 is going it ran one day a week to serve Wilford which has a tram stop at each end of the village.
https://www.nctx.co.uk/new-nct-service-silverdale-and-wilford-village
I'm not surprised the 2 is going it ran one day a week to serve Wilford which has a tram stop at each end of the village.
ajp999
Member
Quite a regular occurrence - should be a 15 minute frequency service but due to the tight timings on the route they often catch each other up. Been like this for most of the day and the fourth service in the hour has been cancelled due to driver shortages so you have three buses within 15 minutes of each other and nothing else for 45 minutes. Sometimes they will turn one round at the Wheatcrofts island in Edwalton to restore the regular interval service but this needs to be authorised by control from my understanding. Like all TrentBarton routes at the moment the Keyworth is having its share of cancellations due to driver shortages.
Seems to be the case for the Derby depot routes. Over the last year the spare buses have become more prominent on the villager with sometimes 3 of the 4 branded vehicles off the road at a time which this was the case earlier in the week. Last week one of the ex Royal Derby solo's broke down on a previous run so the driver had to commandeer another ex Royal solo off another route to cover the service so it does seem that at times they are struggling to keep the buses on the road just as much as the driver issue.
elknottingham
New Member
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- 28 Oct 2018
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- 3
Wellglade (TrentBarton) group have cut off the only direct bus from Ilkeston to Queens Medical Center with the withdrawal of the 21 and the old 3 and 10 bus routes from Nottingham to Loughborough are now consigned to history with the withdrawal of Skylink from East Midlands Airport to Loughborough and withdrawal of bus service from Long Whatton and Diseworth. The once iconic Black Cat bus route from Ilkeston to Derby is consigned to history with the My15 down to hourly service in the evening and no direct buses between Kirk Hallam and Heanor anymore unlike the old days of the 23 bus service. There are also all the new bus route numbers to memorise for the Ilkeston and Heanor bus networks. Time will tell if this is beneficial for the customers and Wellglade Group or the slow decline of a once good bus company.
This has appeared on Hulley's Facebook page, not sure what it means but more changes from 2 October.....
We’re really sorry that many of your buses have been running late over the past few weeks. From back in the Spring with the closure of the 13 Bends our X70 and 170 had to endure a lengthy diversion via Calver Sough and Hassop, joining the long queues of traffic also going the same way. More recently, we have the temporary traffic lights at the Golden Gates in Baslow, while a retaining wall is replaced, with queues of up to 3 miles at times.
So why does this affect other services? Because of high fuel prices, Driver shortage, falling Government support, wage inflation, passenger numbers still lower than before the pandemic, availability and cost of parts plus Peak District National Park restrictions on the number of buses we’re allowed to operate out of our Baslow depot, we have to run services as efficiently as possible. We simply can’t have buses parked up with Drivers sat in them just in case something goes wrong. Nobody does that. This means that, for example, when an X70 arrives in Chesterfield from Bakewell, that bus then runs as a 55 or 56 to Alfreton. Similarly, when the X70 arrives in Bakewell, it becomes a 172 to Matlock. So it’s easy to see how a problem at, say, Darley Dale can make the bus for people waiting at, say, Stonebroom, run late.
How long are these roadworks going to last? We have been assured that they will be completed in time for the show at Chatsworth, so the first weekend in September. In the meantime we are using our trackers to monitor buses and adjust them wherever possible to bring you the best possible service we can in the circumstances.
What else can be done? Going forwards, we’re going to be making some changes to our services which will allow us to run the 55/56, X70 and 170 independently of each other and of other services. These changes will take effect from 2 October (as we are required by law to give 10 weeks notice) and full details will be given nearer the time.
In the meantime, we sincerely apologise for the disruption to services, but assure you that we’re doing our very best to keep things as close to time as possible. We’re working with Derbyshire County Council’s Highways Department to see how planned roadworks can be better coordinated, with more consideration given to bus services, and also how buses can be given priority at temporary traffic lights. This will take time, but going forwards should reduce these kind of problems..
If you have any questions, email me directly at [email protected] and I’ll do my best to answer.
Facebook
www.facebook.com
Not sure the link will work, I'm not on Facebook but found it quite easily, on Hulley's website click on Travel Updates and scroll down to this post on 19 August.
We’re really sorry that many of your buses have been running late over the past few weeks. From back in the Spring with the closure of the 13 Bends our X70 and 170 had to endure a lengthy diversion via Calver Sough and Hassop, joining the long queues of traffic also going the same way. More recently, we have the temporary traffic lights at the Golden Gates in Baslow, while a retaining wall is replaced, with queues of up to 3 miles at times.
So why does this affect other services? Because of high fuel prices, Driver shortage, falling Government support, wage inflation, passenger numbers still lower than before the pandemic, availability and cost of parts plus Peak District National Park restrictions on the number of buses we’re allowed to operate out of our Baslow depot, we have to run services as efficiently as possible. We simply can’t have buses parked up with Drivers sat in them just in case something goes wrong. Nobody does that. This means that, for example, when an X70 arrives in Chesterfield from Bakewell, that bus then runs as a 55 or 56 to Alfreton. Similarly, when the X70 arrives in Bakewell, it becomes a 172 to Matlock. So it’s easy to see how a problem at, say, Darley Dale can make the bus for people waiting at, say, Stonebroom, run late.
How long are these roadworks going to last? We have been assured that they will be completed in time for the show at Chatsworth, so the first weekend in September. In the meantime we are using our trackers to monitor buses and adjust them wherever possible to bring you the best possible service we can in the circumstances.
What else can be done? Going forwards, we’re going to be making some changes to our services which will allow us to run the 55/56, X70 and 170 independently of each other and of other services. These changes will take effect from 2 October (as we are required by law to give 10 weeks notice) and full details will be given nearer the time.
In the meantime, we sincerely apologise for the disruption to services, but assure you that we’re doing our very best to keep things as close to time as possible. We’re working with Derbyshire County Council’s Highways Department to see how planned roadworks can be better coordinated, with more consideration given to bus services, and also how buses can be given priority at temporary traffic lights. This will take time, but going forwards should reduce these kind of problems..
If you have any questions, email me directly at [email protected] and I’ll do my best to answer.
www.facebook.com
In all fairness to Hulleys the roadworks have been horrendous this summer and I cant believe Derbyshire Council seem to have timed everything around Chatsworth House with no regard to anyone else. It would have been much better to complete these works out of the summer season.
Llandudno
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Dec 2014
- Messages
- 2,476
I gather there are lots of timetable changes to Stagecoach bus services in Derbyshire from the first week in October, does anyone know what the changes are…?
According to this BBC story Trent Barton are down 130 drivers!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles...om3=Regional+BBC+East+Midlands&at_campaign=64
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles...om3=Regional+BBC+East+Midlands&at_campaign=64
ChrisC
Established Member
Stagecoach took over the running of Trent Barton’s 141 service today. Although the timetable hasn’t changed and it is available on the Stagecoach Mansfield website I can’t find any information anywhere else. There’s no information about it at the bus stops that I’ve seen only the Trent Barton notice remaining stating the service is withdrawn from 5th September. It’s not shown on the Stagecoach app or any journey planners or other bus apps as I can see and not on bustimes.org. I can’t see them getting many passengers until people know it’s actually running. I don’t suppose it’s even listed on the electronic displays at bus stops or in the Nottingham Victoria Bus Station if all apps are showing no buses on the route. Also no information anywhere, including the Stagecoach app, about fares.
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