Is it not illegal to sell tickets cheaper than the Ticket office official price
Commission or Booking Fee make it more expensive than Ticket office who just charge the price of the ticket.
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Is it cheaper to book with train companies rather than Trainsplit?
- Thread starter cygnus44
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RailUK Forums
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. If you have established what splits you want to use, you can add these to the basket and buy them on TrainSplit (or other retailers) without paying a booking fee or 'share of saving' fee.
If you buy on Train split you pay extra fee at the station you don’t
There are no fees on TrainSplit for non-split tickets?
There's never a fee to pay at the station if you buy on an online retailer
Is there no way for trainsplit to hide the combination of tickets used in a booking until payment has been made, thus preventing the “free rider” problem from occurring?
It’s a fantastic service which has saved me significant amounts of money over the years (as a student I especially appreciate the financial saving it offers).
Yes, in theory, you can view the tickets to see what it offers and then add these to the basket individually to get around the share of saving fee, but doing so is immoral and prevents the website for making a fair commission from the excellent work they do.
It’s a fantastic service which has saved me significant amounts of money over the years (as a student I especially appreciate the financial saving it offers).
What fee? Trainsplit will always offer the cheapest possible price (stations only offer through tickets, not splits). As a result, it asks for a tiny share of the savings you make (which, combined with the reduced fare will still be cheaper than the through fare!)
Yes, in theory, you can view the tickets to see what it offers and then add these to the basket individually to get around the share of saving fee, but doing so is immoral and prevents the website for making a fair commission from the excellent work they do.
I think it would be very difficult to do so in an effective manner, because you have to be told about where you need to call and what time/route/TOC restrictions you must observe.
roversfan2001
Established Member
This isn't true, for the reasons that have been explained to you repeatedly.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I wouldn't use it in that case. I won't hand over money for something I don't fully know the details of.
An option might be for them to require login to see it, then they could track searches vs. purchases and see if it's being abused, though people could just sign up a new account.
ScotTrains
Member
I tend to book with the retailer offering the best cashback through Topcashback, Quidco, Airtime, Nectar, Credit cards etc often using a mix of them.
Amex are currently offering 12% back on purchases through the LNER website.
Amex are currently offering 12% back on purchases through the LNER website.
Then how ,as I said upthread it is illegal to undercut the ticket price in the fares manual
Haywain
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Who is undercutting the price shown in the fares manual?
I'm not sure what you mean by illegal?
The TSA says what duties ticket office operators have. These include, inter alia, the obligation to sell the cheapest valid through fare.
The only time that the ticket office is obliged, or indeed permitted to proactively offer, a combination of tickets is if there's no through fare at all - or no through fare valid via the route the passenger wishes to travel.
A breach of the TSA is unlikely to constitute a criminal offence.
It appears to me as though @cygnus44 is getting confused and also wants to have his cake and eat it.
Tickets are the same price wherever you purchase them from, be it online, a ticket office or ticket machine (there are a handful of exceptions like the recent Northern £1 promotion fares that are only available through a specific TOC website but that isn't really relevent to this discussion). Some third part retailers charge a booking fee when you buy a ticket from them. Trainsplit does not charge a booking fee.
There is nothing to stop you researching your own journeys to see if there is a combination of tickets avaiulable that is cheaper than the through fare. I've done this regularly - indeed one of my favourite splits is when travelling from Stevenage to Bath, I can save an absolute fortune by using a day travelcard, Boundary Zone 6 to Didcot and Didcot to Swindon and Swindon to Bath tickets. You can purchase the combination of tickets from any retailer of your choosing. I always buy this combination of tickets at my local ticket office and obtain a seat reservation. This is because Bounbdary Zone tickets cannot be purchased online.
More recently online retailers like Trainsplit have come along. They will do the leg work for you and identify if a combination of tickets is available for a journey. This is particularly useful, especially where Advance tickets that are quota controlled is involved. These online retailers charge a share of saving fee, Trainsplit is currently 15%. One advantage of using a site like this is you have one through itinerary and the tickets are all on one PDF file or booking reference number (if collecting at a ticket machine).
People who want to have their cake and eat it use sites like Trainsplit to identify combinations of tickets and then purchasing them elsewhere. Is it illegal - no and it cannot really be stopped. But if you must do this then at least purchase the tickets individually through Trainsplit so they do at least get some money from the train company on whose behalf they are selling the tickets. If you do this you won't pay a share of saving fee but you will have the inconvenience of multiple PDFs or booking reference numbers.
Tickets are the same price wherever you purchase them from, be it online, a ticket office or ticket machine (there are a handful of exceptions like the recent Northern £1 promotion fares that are only available through a specific TOC website but that isn't really relevent to this discussion). Some third part retailers charge a booking fee when you buy a ticket from them. Trainsplit does not charge a booking fee.
There is nothing to stop you researching your own journeys to see if there is a combination of tickets avaiulable that is cheaper than the through fare. I've done this regularly - indeed one of my favourite splits is when travelling from Stevenage to Bath, I can save an absolute fortune by using a day travelcard, Boundary Zone 6 to Didcot and Didcot to Swindon and Swindon to Bath tickets. You can purchase the combination of tickets from any retailer of your choosing. I always buy this combination of tickets at my local ticket office and obtain a seat reservation. This is because Bounbdary Zone tickets cannot be purchased online.
More recently online retailers like Trainsplit have come along. They will do the leg work for you and identify if a combination of tickets is available for a journey. This is particularly useful, especially where Advance tickets that are quota controlled is involved. These online retailers charge a share of saving fee, Trainsplit is currently 15%. One advantage of using a site like this is you have one through itinerary and the tickets are all on one PDF file or booking reference number (if collecting at a ticket machine).
People who want to have their cake and eat it use sites like Trainsplit to identify combinations of tickets and then purchasing them elsewhere. Is it illegal - no and it cannot really be stopped. But if you must do this then at least purchase the tickets individually through Trainsplit so they do at least get some money from the train company on whose behalf they are selling the tickets. If you do this you won't pay a share of saving fee but you will have the inconvenience of multiple PDFs or booking reference numbers.
There isn't any undercutting! (and it wouldn't be illegal even if there was)
If you ask Trainsplit for "Glasgow to London" and it finds it's cheaper to split and buy Glasgow to Warrington and Warrington to London, it will offer to sell you those two tickets and charge as commission 15% of the difference in cost between the sum of those two tickets and the cheapest unsplit Glasgow-London ticket it can find.
If you find the splits yourself, then go to Trainsplit and manually buy those Glasgow to Warrington and Warrington to London tickets separately, it will charge you exactly the same amount of money as you would be charged at a booking office or using a TOC's website. There will be no booking fee or commission.
I do exactly that but on a trip from Maidenhead to Dawlish with splits at Newbury, Castle Cary , & Taunton with senior RC it costs 6 pounds extra on train split than the correct ticket office price when the 15% commission is added on.
Haywain
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I'm just going to add that if Trainsplit were selling tickets at below the published price, they would find it very expensive as they would be getting chargebacks - these involve paying the difference between the price tickets are sold at and the correct fare, so that it would be a very poor business model.
So, if you object to that don't buy from Trainsplit - it's entirely voluntary!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
LNER's thing seems to effectively automatically put a discount voucher onto the price of the through fare for the difference between that and the split. I was a bit confused when I saw it in the basket but then it sort of makes sense. That is how they do it as one ticket.
For fairly obvious reasons this could only work for a TOC selling their own tickets.
For fairly obvious reasons this could only work for a TOC selling their own tickets.
I dont
But if you're using Trainsplit to identify that Newbury, Castle Cary and Taunton are the best place to split and then buying the tickets elsewhere, then that is unethical.
If you are doing this then why not just buy the tickets individually through Trainsplit?
But it's saving you money compared to the booking office price of one Maidenhead to Dawlish ticket, which is its entire point. Obviously you have no need for that service if you're going to put time and effort into researching the splits yourself.
If you buy from Trainsplit and they identify a saving for you, you pay 15% commission. If you buy those split tickets yourself from Trainsplit, you pay no fees. However, Trainsplit receive money from the train operators for selling the tickets, which is part of how they make money. In that case, you pay exactly the same price you would pay at a ticket office. It also means they get at least some income from you using their services.
A ticket office will sell splits if you specifically request them, but they will not offer them without asking. For that reason, a lot of people would be better off using Trainsplit than just turning up at a ticket office.
Looking up splits using Trainsplit and then buying elsewhere is fairly poor practice. You're costing them money and giving nothing in return!
miklcct
On Moderation
There are many reasons I have to do this as mentioned before, e.g. PlusBus, bike reservation, cashback, etc.
It’s not you can buy the splits at the booking office or train line on the day at the proper price with no added charges.
You can buy them at Trainsplit with no added charges!
No-one is denying that this is the case.
The point is how are you identifying that it is best to split at Newbury, Castle Cary and Taunton? If you've done this research yourself then well done, you can be pleased with your saving.
On the other hand, if you used Trainsplit to identify the tickets to purchase but purchased them elsewhere this is unethical.
Indeed. Trainsplit at least gets some income from the train operators if you do this.
How much will it cost at the booking office if you ask them for a ticket from Maidenhead to Dawlish but do not instruct them to split it? One ticket only. That is the proper price to which you should compare Trainsplit's price.
Eyersey468
Established Member
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How is it illegal to sell tickets cheaper than the official price?
northwichcat
Veteran Member
I'm not aware of a T&C on any train booking site saying if you search on our website, you are expected to buy a ticket if you find a suitable one. Each site should expect a significant number of users who search for tickets but then make no purchase through the site. I fully understand someone has spent a lot of time in to developing a suitable search facility but Tim Berners-Lee set up the world wide web as a free resource and the developers of Trainsplit have tagged their work on his free resource, without setting up any paywall.
Out of interest. Say when the Northern £1 sale was on Trainsplit advised splitting but didn't mention you could make a further saving by buying a £1 only ticket through Northern. Would it be unethical to not purchase through Trainsplit because it can't sell you the cheapest combination, even though it's provided some guidance towards finding the cheapest combination?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There's no law against trying on a pair of shoes in a small shoe shop then buying them online for a lower price either, but it is incredibly self centred and inconsiderate to do it because it harms that small business. TrainSplit is a small business too.
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