Worst Rail Routes for fare collection in members' experience?

[70014IronDuke]

Yesterday, I happened to talk to a chappie from Wem. He said that, if seeking to go for a night out in Shrewsbury, taking the train was a 'no brainer' - it was more expensive to park the car than pay any fares, and, of course, he could have a drink without worrying about the breathaliser. He also said that nobody ever buys a ticket on the evening trains back, as no conducter ever comes around. (Presumably Shrewsbury is ungated in the evenings?)

Last month we had this post from @class26:

It was me the wrote about fare collection being iffy and only yesterday I went into Boston from Heckington. NO sign either way of anyone attempting to collect my fare (and for others boarding at Heckington). I ought to say that I bought a return ticket from the machine on Boston station but I doubt others did. I am keeping a log now and will send it (together with train times / dates etc) to EMR. Sine July I have travelled 5 times on the line and NOT ONCE has there been an attempt to collect my fare.
My point is the passenger figures are no way correct and understate the lines useage considerably. One of those days 16 boarded at Heckington and most all allighted at Sleaford - all travelling free. Another occasion I went to Nottingham. No fare collection to Grantham. then a new guard - no collection to Nottingham but of course at Nottingham there are the ticket barriers but they were open so again FREE !!! This is a scandal


Use of the line is not a low in winter than you might imagine. Skegness, especially at weekends generate traffic all year round. Friday is Butlins change over day and trains can be surprisingly busy even in winter but yes, there are some quiet trains at the fringes but I repeat my previous comments that fare collection ON THE TRAIN the train is lamentable so I doubt any figures accurately reflect actual use.

We've also had mention of massive fare evasion on some Scottish routes, not helped by the increased difficulty in prosecuting offenders caused by Scottish law. I assum this is also a disincentive to conductors to try to get all fares due, especially on late night services when the chances of violence/fracas increases.

This got me wondering - which GB route in this group's esteemed members' experience has the worst fare collection rates, and on which trains? And how much of a difference does this make to the DfT station entrance-exit stats, with potential knock-on effect in terms of lack of improved service enhancement?

 

[Chriso]

Unfortunately ticket checks have greatly decreased in my opinion in all regional/suburban areas since Covid (intercity still seems ok)Be it guards or revenue protection.

Even when guards/rpi do appear there appears a lot more people refusing to pay with little the rail staff can do which is really infuriating to watch

 

[dodecahedron67]

All of TL and SE metro are pretty shocking for this. I’d say in 10 years I maybe had my tickets checked less than 50 times. 5 of those 10 years were daily use (M-Su) and the other 5 were not daily but still regular

 

[L401CJF]

I'm one of a couple of guards at my TOC who does check tickets late at night. It's quite shocking just how many you sell at that hour. I worked a train last week on a 2 hour round trip 10pm-midnight. Only 2 people had bought tickets, the rest were so used to no checks at night they only paid when I went through.

I understand many don't check at night as there is the perception that crime is much worse at night and it's guaranteed you'll get some sort of bother - In my current and previous roles I have always said I deal with more trouble in the daytime than at night.

 

[Dai Corner]

The Cardiff Valleys have a reputation for being a 'pay if challenged' area. One former colleague spoke openly about doing so and walking from Cathays (then unbarriered) to the city centre to avoid paying. He genuinely seemed to think fares were optional.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The south WCML is notorious for a lack of checks, even when trains go from non barriered platforms at Euston (LNR only do boarding checks when an RPI sting is in progress which is very rare indeed). However on my last few journeys I have been checked, and by unfamiliar guards, too (it used to be the same ones who did and most didn't), so I wonder if either they are new or the TOC has decided to crack down on this laziness.

I also got checked on the Marston Vale last week for the first time since 2019. The train, predictably, ran late as a result - I don't understand why they don't add 5 minutes to the timetables in December to resolve that. It isn't like it interacts with much, having dedicated platforms at both ends.

 

[Acfb]

Generally speaking, they don't seem to check tickets on the Buxton line in the afternoon/peak time heading to Buxton.

I was also surprised recently that there was no ticket check between Eskbank and Tweedbank on a Saturday but there was on the way back (just as well as the ticket machine was out of order at Eskbank and had to buy the return at Tweedbank).

Also didn't have my tickets checked on the Shotts line between Wester Hailes and Breich in late 2020 in both directions.

 

[northwichcat]

While Northern are currently operating more pairs of trains, instead of operating peak time extras, even if you travel in the portion the guard is in ticket checks are rare. Ticket checks on my most recent Northern journeys:
Mid Cheshire line 1/6 services checked (3/6 checked if you include barrier checks)
Buxton line 1/2 services checked
Stoke line 2/2 services checked
CLC Liverpool-Manchester line 0/1 services checked (1/1 checked if you include barrier checks)
Chat Moss line 0/1 services checked (1/1 checked if you include barrier checks)

Total 4/12 checked on board, 6/12 checked somewhere and 50% with no check at all.

I understand many don't check at night as there is the perception that crime is much worse at night and it's guaranteed you'll get some sort of bother - In my current and previous roles I have always said I deal with more trouble in the daytime than at night.

From my experience it's always the big guards with big muscles who stay away from the passenger areas at night! You can see a 60 year old 5ft, slim build guard walking through checking tickets, while a 35 year old, who could be mistaken for a professional rugby player, doesn't bother! I wonder if it's the guards who intimidate passengers (whether intentional or not) that are the most likely to complain about anti social behaviour from passengers?

 

[Edsmith]

All Southeastern services, they were irregular before covid but are almost non existent now.

 

[riceuten]

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I have had my ticket check on the train between Stevenage and KGX, STP and LBG (and vv) since ticket gates were introduced. It wasn't even that common prior to this.

I assume the assumption is that if the ticket gates are in operation, this effectively does the Revenue Protection Officers' job for them. Often, their mobiles can't read the Key Smartcards they have been issuing, which, frustratingly, are only valid to Foxton and Huntingdon northbound in any case.

To be fair, I have seen even less revenue protection in rural Germany than in the UK. The ticket machines there often don't sell the tickets required, or will only accept cash, and often only coins, and very, very rarely, cards (and if they do it will almost always only be German Giropay cards). So DB only have themselves to blame for faredodging at epic levels. I just had a wonderful weekend in Luxembourg, where, of course, 2nd class transport on trains, buses, trams, and funicular is free, and buses that much quicker as people aren't haggling over the fare.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I genuinely don't think I've ever had my ticket checked on any of the South Western Railway suburban lines out of London Waterloo. The guards usually tend to hide away in the centre cab, but when they do walk down the train, they never check anyone's tickets.

Conversely, Greater Anglia on the London Liverpool Street to Norwich services seem to be very hot on checking tickets, with guards walking down the train performing ticket checks sometimes three, four times in my experience.

 

[blakey1152]

All Southeastern services, they were irregular before covid but are almost non existent now.

Definately agree with this..I've had my ticket checked on Southeastern once....they seem to have a tendency to blockade stations instead

 

[Snow1964]

Virtually non existent in SW London, and apart from morning peak vast majority of suburban stations have no barriers or open unmanned barriers. You could almost certainly travel from say Shepperton branch to/from Chessington branch and never have ticket checked.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Avanti TM's are in dispute and won't scan tickets as they believe they should have a similar payment to Northern Conductors

 

[northwichcat]

Avanti TM's are in dispute and won't scan tickets as they believe they should have a similar payment to Northern Conductors

Avanti TMs can't exactly expect to make commission on board, given they only call at stations with ticket selling facilities and there's huge financial implications for purchasing on board. For example, not buying a £68.60 Off Peak single before boarding a Manchester to London train can result in having to buy a £184.70 Anytime single.

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

I've rarely had a ticket checked on BNG to LPG, eventhough it is a request stop.

Early August we traveled BNG -> EUS ... 2 changes without a single ticket check

 

[Merseysider]

Travelled on my local line (Lichfield - Birmingham) weekly, or several times a week, for the last few years. I’ve had my ticket checked onboard precisely twice in what must be at least 200 journeys. Even the barriers at New Street are open half the time.

 

[Chiltern006]

pretty sure guards aren’t recommended to do ticket checks on cross city purely due to the safety of themselves if challenging someone without a ticket

 

[jackot]

I genuinely don't think I've ever had my ticket checked on any of the South Western Railway suburban lines out of London Waterloo. The guards usually tend to hide away in the centre cab, but when they do walk down the train, they never check anyone's tickets.

Conversely, Greater Anglia on the London Liverpool Street to Norwich services seem to be very hot on checking tickets, with guards walking down the train performing ticket checks sometimes three, four times in my experience.

Same experience here with SWR. Even on longer routes to Alton or Reading it is very rare. Never had tickets checked on Farnham to Guildford either in the 75+ times I must have used it.

 

[satisnek]

I recently had a day 'up north' with a South Pennines Day Ranger and was impressed with how often my ticket got checked (Northern and TPE). On-train ticket checks are pretty much extinct in the Midlands.

 

[OliverH68]

During the 2 and a bit years I commuted with Chiltern & used the free travel perk on weekends, I probably only got my ticket checked just a handful of times.

Southern metro ticket checks are non-existent, and on TL I've again only been checked a very small handful of times.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Chiltern of course is partly DOO, though they do seem to rather rely on most journeys involving the stations towards London which are gated or Moor St, a bit like Merseyrail - I am sure they do have a revenue squad but I have never seen them.

 

[Purple Train]

In my experience, GA guards are pretty quick at checking tickets, but, at most other TOCs, tickets are not checked as much.

 

[Birmingham]

Chiltern of course is partly DOO, though they do seem to rather rely on most journeys involving the stations towards London which are gated or Moor St, a bit like Merseyrail - I am sure they do have a revenue squad but I have never seen them.

From the looks of it they seem to subcontract TIL agents to do this at Moor St.

 

[greatkingrat]

Yesterday, I happened to talk to a chappie from Wem. He said that, if seeking to go for a night out in Shrewsbury, taking the train was a 'no brainer' - it was more expensive to park the car than pay any fares, and, of course, he could have a drink without worrying about the breathaliser. He also said that nobody ever buys a ticket on the evening trains back, as no conducter ever comes around. (Presumably Shrewsbury is ungated in the evenings?)

Well if he has bought a single for the outward journey, he is only saving 10p on the cost of a CDR, so the railway isn't losing too much revenue!

 

[the sniper]

I genuinely don't think I've ever had my ticket checked on any of the South Western Railway suburban lines out of London Waterloo. The guards usually tend to hide away in the centre cab, but when they do walk down the train, they never check anyone's tickets.

There are two separate grades of Guard on SWR, one is non-commercial, which might be a factor.

 

[Starmill]

Before the pandemic, the ticket gates at Shrewsbury were almost always left open in the evening.

As pointed out above, the prices of tickets for journeys to and from Shrewsbury would make it a very good location to prioritise staffing until the last train on Friday and Saturday nights.

Well if he has bought a single for the outward journey, he is only saving 10p on the cost of a CDR, so the railway isn't losing too much revenue!

Indeed! Which is of course one of more persuasive reasons why BR set prices up in that way back in the day.

 

[py_megapixel]

Some of the best guards on the network seem to be the Great Western ones. Not just in terms of checking tickets (which they do very well; unless I'm only on the train for a few minutes I am pretty much always checked) but also in other customer-facing aspects of the job - in particular, providing useful information on the PA without the waffle that seems to plague some other TOCs, or repetition of what the pre-recorded announcement has just said!

CrossCountry and TPE don't seem to have many on-train checks, which I imagine has something to do with their chronic overcrowding and guards not wanting to barge their way through a crush-loaded train. They do, however, serve predominantly gated stations.

 

[dk1]

Seems much better now on GA regional/local routes as guards no longer operate the doors (unless degraded) & so are constantly in the train waiting to pounce on all boarding passengers. Very good to see.

 

[chris_in_salop]

Before the pandemic, the ticket gates at Shrewsbury were almost always left open in the evening.

As pointed out above, the prices of tickets for journeys to and from Shrewsbury would make it a very good location to prioritise staffing until the last train on Friday and Saturday nights.


Indeed! Which is of course one of more persuasive reasons why BR set prices up in that way back in the day.

I know this is heresy on this forum, but I'd much rather drinkers were heading back to Wem from Shrewsbury on the train rather than driving back.

And if we lose a few pennies on fares - let's say 30 people dodging the £5.70 return fare making a grand total of £170-ish every Friday - does it really matter? Attending to one road accident caused by a drunk driver speeding in the dark at, say, Harmer Hill will cost the public purse tens of thousands at least.