How many fake Railcards are there?

[PedroHav]

As a railcard holder in the South I rarely, if ever, have to show my railcard. If I do it's only a cursory glance. However I've learnt from a trip on LNER that they are being photoshopped and unless the QR code is checked and verified they could be fake. I wonder how many fake railcards there are.

 

[David57]

My plastic 3 year disabled railcard doesn't any QR code, bar code, or any identity on it, apart from my name, a number, and an expiry date.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My plastic 3 year disabled railcard doesn't any QR code, bar code, or any identity on it, apart from my name, a number, and an expiry date.

Paper and plastic ones indeed don't have a barcode. It'd be dead easy if you had an ID card printer to fake a plastic card one, probably far easier than a paper one.

They could do with doing e-ticket barcode type ones, if I could put one in my Apple wallet I'd get an electronic one.

 

[PedroHav]

Paper and plastic ones indeed don't have a barcode. It'd be dead easy if you had an ID card printer to fake a plastic card one, probably far easier than a paper one.

They could do with doing e-ticket barcode type ones, if I could put one in my Apple wallet I'd get an electronic one.

It seems it's the electric ones that are also being copied. The QR code on the card are a good way of checking them - if you bother to read the code that is.

 

[Haywain]

I've learnt from a trip on LNER that they are being photoshopped and unless the QR code is checked and verified they could be fake.

Just curious but how did you learn this? Did you see someone being caught out?

 

[skyhigh]

I wonder how many fake railcards there are.

Not many I'd have thought. If you show a railcard in the app it has a moving pattern that shows it is genuine - any staff checking tickets should be able to spot in seconds if that's missing and screenshots are not valid. If you're caught without a valid railcard and have an eticket it's easy to see how many times you've done it, and get you to pay it back.

The QR code on the card are a good way of checking them - if you bother to read can read the code that is.

Fixed that for you. The guards at my TOC can't scan the barcodes (yet, at least) so it's not a case of not being bothered. I assume the same applies at other companies.

 

[paul1609]

The number of out of date 16-25 railcards that guards find on my recent journeys has been astonishing. Invariably the new ticket they have to buy costs more than renewing the railcard. The holders reaction suggests to me that they are playing the game of using the old card until caught.

 

[PedroHav]

Just curious but how did you learn this? Did you see someone being caught out?

The guard on the LNER service told me after he scanned the QR code. He showed me the results on his hand held which gave my name and expiry date etc

 

[ChrisC]

As a railcard holder in the South I rarely, if ever, have to show my railcard. If I do it's only a cursory glance. However I've learnt from a trip on LNER that they are being photoshopped and unless the QR code is checked and verified they could be fake. I wonder how many fake railcards there are.

I’m quite surprised that you rarely have to show your railcard. I haven’t travelled much in the South since getting my Senior Railcard so haven't had any experience of this. Most of my travel has been on EMR, Northern, XC and LNER and I have found that staff always ask to see railcards when checking tickets. Mine is a 3 year plastic one.

 

[VC00]

I've known/seen people who have obtained registered/legitimate railcards, just with fake details (through photo manipulation), is there a way staff can check physical railcard details or the problem unfixable?

 

[flythetube]

Any TOC using the Ticketkeeper app has the ability to scan Railcards which have the code.

Whether staff do scan them or not is another matter.

The facility to do so is there though.

Surveyors doing the Ticketless Travel Survey will ask to inspect Railcards and will also scan them whether physical or digital.

It is surprising that after not often being asked to produce their Railcards, many find them expired or close to expiry!!!!!!

Or not being able to show them at all after purchasing a new mobile device and not transferring the Railcard to it.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It is surprising that after not often being asked to produce their Railcards, many find them expired or close to expiry!!!!!!

How's that likely to be a problem, exactly? (Unless the ticket's expiry date (return portion) extends beyond the railcard's expiry date?)

 

[Hadders]

Just because you haven't personally been checked doesn't mean that railcards aren't checked.

I've noticed a significant increase in railcard checking recently. The barriers at my local station are often set to reject railcard discounted tickets so that a manual inspection can take place. Also on both Thameslink and LNER I've been asked to show my railcard during ticket checks.

On a LNER train last week an RPI was on board. She dealt with two separate passengers travelling in the same carriage as me who had invalid tickets. She did show discretion to one of these passengers as she overlooked their out of date railcard as long as they renewed it on the spot.

 

[Sm5]

Interesting, I read this expecting to see a different TOC…

On sunday, on an Avanti service I overheard an inspector issuing an MG11 form to a female passenger, whom, in his opinion had presented a fake railcard on her phone… during the discussion it was suggested there is an app doing the rounds which claims to be able to fake railcards and staff are aware of it.

 

[flythetube]

How's that likely to be a problem, exactly? (Unless the ticket's expiry date (return portion) extends beyond the railcard's expiry date?)

Because it alerts the customer at the point of that Railcard Check or Survey Check that their Railcard whilst valid then, will not be in 3 days or 5 days or suchlike which prompts a renewal thus preventing issues in a weeks time if they were previously unaware of the cards upcoming expiry.

We also frequently come across holders of 16-25 railcards having purchased tickets with the 16-17 Saver card 50% of which their Railcard only entities them to the 33.33333% discount thus obtaining a greater discount to which they are not entitled.

Although if genuinely aged 16 or 17 it would be simpler to make the 16-25 railcard an 18-25 card and sell the 16-17 saver cards to those aged 16/17 giving them the 50% discount anyway and saving this 2 level discount for that age group!!

 

[miklcct]

Although if genuinely aged 16 or 17 it would be simpler to make the 16-25 railcard an 18-25 card and sell the 16-17 saver cards to those aged 16/17 giving them the 50% discount anyway and saving this 2 level discount for that age group!!

Is the 16-25 one of the regulated railcards which can't be withdrawn, alongside the disabled and senior ones?

 

[Watershed]

Is the 16-25 one of the regulated railcards which can't be withdrawn, alongside the disabled and senior ones?

Section 28 of the Railways Act 1993 does impose certain requirements in this respect, but it is down to the DfT's discretion whether they deem Railcards as an "authorised discount fare scheme". In theory it could decide no longer to do so, in which case the TOCs could stop offering Railcard discounts.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Section 28 of the Railways Act 1993 does impose certain requirements in this respect, but it is down to the DfT's discretion whether they deem Railcards as an "authorised discount fare scheme". In theory it could decide no longer to do so, in which case the TOCs could stop offering Railcard discounts.

In terms of discounts, the "Merseyrail trick" could easily be pulled on any local TOC - withdraw all unregulated single and return fares, replacing them with a day ticket that conveniently doesn't discount. It'd be harder on an IC TOC where the Off Peak Return is regulated.

 

[Haywain]

In terms of discounts, the "Merseyrail trick" could easily be pulled on any local TOC - withdraw all unregulated single and return fares, replacing them with a day ticket that conveniently doesn't discount. It'd be harder on an IC TOC where the Off Peak Return is regulated.

If the government wanted to abolish railcards it is within their power to introduce legislation to do so (or more likely hide it in some other legislation).

 

[Watershed]

In terms of discounts, the "Merseyrail trick" could easily be pulled on any local TOC - withdraw all unregulated single and return fares, replacing them with a day ticket that conveniently doesn't discount. It'd be harder on an IC TOC where the Off Peak Return is regulated.

Indeed, or the Government could simply lean on the RDG to change the terms of Railcards so that they provided no useful discount whatsoever, or were withdrawn altogether.

This section was, if I'm not mistaken, an amendment to the original Bill proposed by backbechers to protect 'vulnerable' people from unrestrained market forces under the newly privatised TOCs. It clearly did not envision the possibility of such changes being made on account of the government bearing the revenue risk.

 

[Hadders]

Railcards are highly unlikely to be withdrawn.

A 50% increase in fares is hardly going to go down well during a cost of living crisis.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Because it alerts the customer at the point of that Railcard Check or Survey Check that their Railcard whilst valid then, will not be in 3 days or 5 days or suchlike which prompts a renewal thus preventing issues in a weeks time if they were previously unaware of the cards upcoming expiry.

We also frequently come across holders of 16-25 railcards having purchased tickets with the 16-17 Saver card 50% of which their Railcard only entities them to the 33.33333% discount thus obtaining a greater discount to which they are not entitled.

Although if genuinely aged 16 or 17 it would be simpler to make the 16-25 railcard an 18-25 card and sell the 16-17 saver cards to those aged 16/17 giving them the 50% discount anyway and saving this 2 level discount for that age group!!

Is the 16-25 one of the regulated railcards which can't be withdrawn, alongside the disabled and senior ones?

Yes, in an ideal world the various discount product sets could be sorted to remove overlaps but the various bits of regulation and the lack of an overall authority in charge makes this implausibly impossible with the current structure. GBR, once legally established, will be in a much better place to sort it out.

Indeed, or the Government could simply lean on the RDG to change the terms of Railcards so that they provided no useful discount whatsoever, or were withdrawn altogether.

This section was, if I'm not mistaken, an amendment to the original Bill proposed by backbechers to protect 'vulnerable' people from unrestrained market forces under the newly privatised TOCs. It clearly did not envision the possibility of such changes being made on account of the government bearing the revenue risk.

Government does not 'lean on' RDG. Until legislation can change the current structure, RDG is legally answerable to its members; they, however are contractors to DfT/Wales/Scotland or the devolved regional bodies as appropriate. So the DfT instructs RDG via its TOC contracts and the other authorities can do likewise.

Railcards are highly unlikely to be withdrawn.

A 50% increase in fares is hardly going to go down well during a cost of living crisis.

Indeed. Whitehall is a hotbed of competing political fiefdoms and whilst Treasury might like to rein in rail spending, the DfT, No.10, loads of MPs in marginal constituencies and the devolved nations and regions mean that there is no chance of that happening. A more rational debate is about improving the reach of discounts to those that need them and those that drive modal shift.

 

[Watershed]

Government does not 'lean on' RDG. Until legislation can change the current structure, RDG is legally answerable to its members; they, however are contractors to DfT/Wales/Scotland or the devolved regional bodies as appropriate. So the DfT instructs RDG via its TOC contracts and the other authorities can do likewise.

That certainly amounts to 'leaning' in my book! I struggle with the claim that legislation is needed to enact GBR. Virtually nothing will be changing in any material way - and there is nothing stopping a 'shadow GBR' from acting as the DfT's agents now. It's just an excuse to delay things as far as I'm concerned.

Indeed. Whitehall is a hotbed of competing political fiefdoms and whilst Treasury might like to rein in rail spending, the DfT, No.10, loads of MPs in marginal constituencies and the devolved nations and regions mean that there is no chance of that happening. A more rational debate is about improving the reach of discounts to those that need them and those that drive modal shift.

Rail funding has already been limited to a significant degree, to the extent of large fleets being sent off lease and many TOCs no longer having Rest Day Working agreements for drivers, for instance.

Many improvement and renewal projects have been postponed, if not shelved. Whilst of course funding could have been limited to an even more extreme degree, the cold dead hand of the Treasury has certainly made itself known.