LNER unreliability caused by staff shortages

[Nicholas Lewis]

Emergency special working was in place on the up and down fast immediately north of Peterborough station for a distance of 4 miles.
Should easily of been able to cope with 5 trains per hour (as per contingency plans).

Trains seem to be stacked up at Stoke Tunnel on the Up as well as being slow through Huntingdon.

LNER early on cancelled trains in the hours where they operate 5 train, so that made 4 LNER per hour plus 1 open access path.

However for reasons undone some trains sat for over an hour and some for nearly 90 min.

Replace parts for the SSI we’re sourced from Newcastle, this was transported by train to the site.

Umm well i hope they had a van at Grantham to take them as it was taking 90-120mins to get to Peterborough Stn late morning

I believe ‘normal working’ was granted around 1800.

It started at 0515 with a total loss of signalling, although signals were showing correct Colours on the ground.

Totally shamblic in how long it took network rail to deal with the situation.

Thanks for that insight and was kinda what i was surmising the issue might be but talking past reds should have been that much of a drama as you say. I do find it rather annoying that NR get away with not being held more accountable in public when we get these catastrophic failures and does seem that certain routes are far more visible on Twitter with what the issue as well as route directors issuing apologies (however hollow) but not Eastern Region. Yes i know there will be an internal autopsy but now no Sch8 money changes hands where is the incentive on NR to prevent such a reoccurrence. In Couchers days any incident over 5000mins resulted in high risk of having to go and explain to him why it happened, what we were doing about preventing reoccurrence and how well the incident was managed not because he wanted us to ball us out but to really see we had got to root cause and had plans to embed learning.

 

[800001]

Trains seem to be stacked up at Stoke Tunnel on the Up as well as being slow through Huntingdon.

Umm well i hope they had a van at Grantham to take them as it was taking 90-120mins to get to Peterborough Stn late morning

Thanks for that insight and was kinda what i was surmising the issue might be but talking past reds should have been that much of a drama as you say. I do find it rather annoying that NR get away with not being held more accountable in public when we get these catastrophic failures and does seem that certain routes are far more visible on Twitter with what the issue as well as route directors issuing apologies (however hollow) but not Eastern Region. Yes i know there will be an internal autopsy but now no Sch8 money changes hands where is the incentive on NR to prevent such a reoccurrence. In Couchers days any incident over 5000mins resulted in high risk of having to go and explain to him why it happened, what we were doing about preventing reoccurrence and how well the incident was managed not because he wanted us to ball us out but to really see we had got to root cause and had plans to embed learning.

You are correct, the part alighted at Grantham and was collected by a man in a van, and the other part was collected from Huntingdon where LNER called additionally with 1W11 it 1W16 (can’t remember which) to drop part off.

 

[Bald Rick]

Emergency special working was in place on the up and down fast immediately north of Peterborough station for a distance of 4 miles.

You’d never get 5tph each way with ESW for a section like that. 3tph max (as has been proved, twice now).

 

[800001]

You’d never get 5tph each way with ESW for a section like that. 3tph max (as has been proved, twice now).

I’m only saying what was authorised on the day.
And yes it was proved that it didn’t work yesterday

 

[55002]

Something happening at Doncaster this morning too, fault on train. 91110 is still there after failing on 1A09 0715 from Leeds, rescued by 37. 1S04 0615 Kings Cross to EDB been there an hour also. 91109 suffered an hour delay earlier at Retford too on 1A04 0605 from Leeds

 

[DanNCL]

Something happening at Doncaster this morning too, fault on train. 91110 is still there after failing on 1A09 0715 from Leeds, rescued by 37. 1S04 0615 Kings Cross to EDB been there an hour also. 91109 suffered an hour delay earlier at Retford too on 1A04 0605 from Leeds

All a knock on effect of 91110 failing on the north station throat. 37884 to move the set.

I presume the location of the failure is why the Doncaster thunderbird wasn’t used.

 

[Banham7]

Something happening at Doncaster this morning too, fault on train. 91110 is still there after failing on 1A09 0715 from Leeds, rescued by 37. 1S04 0615 Kings Cross to EDB been there an hour also. 91109 suffered an hour delay earlier at Retford too on 1A04 0605 from Leeds

Hearing 91109 was involved with a dispatch irregularity at Retford.

 

[DanNCL]

The 91+Mark 4 sets don't seem to be having much luck this morning!

 

[800001]

All a knock on effect of 91110 failing on the north station throat. 37884 to move the set.

I presume the location of the failure is why the Doncaster thunderbird wasn’t used.

No driver for the Tbird, hence RoG used

 

[Cowley]

Rather than this being a general thread about every single LNER delay we’ve tweaked the title now to what it was basically set up to discuss - ie staff shortage related issues.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Watershed]

Rather than this being a general thread about every single LNER delay we’ve tweaked the title now to what it was basically set up to discuss - ie staff shortage related issues.

Thanks everyone.

I think it might be worthwhile clarifying it's about unreliability

 

[Cowley]

I think it might be worthwhile clarifying it's about unreliability

A bit of unreliable moderation going on there! Thanks @Watershed.

 

[matchmaker]

I've tried to take the 10.33 Stirling to Edinburgh LNER service twice in the past 6 months. The first was cancelled due to flooding further north, todays was cancelled due to a lack of staff. I got my First Advance ticket price refunded, but LNER still owe me a bacon roll with brown sauce!

 

[800001]

I've tried to take the 10.33 Stirling to Edinburgh LNER service twice in the past 6 months. The first was cancelled due to flooding further north, todays was cancelled due to a lack of staff. I got my First Advance ticket price refunded, but LNER still owe me a bacon roll with brown sauce!

Oh yuk, surely it needs to be red sauce

 

[matchmaker]

Oh yuk, surely it needs to be red sauce

 

[cuccir]

Leaving Kings Cross for Durham tonight and looking down the timetbale I see one cancellation and a couple of short-terminations due to staff shortages. Glad they are largely back on track compared to a couple of weeks ago but they're clearly teetering close to the edge of a much bigger problem.

 

[Walter Whigham]

I was due to take the 08.32 LNER service from Aviemore to Stirling tomorrow but two days ago I got a wishy-washy email from LNER advising me to check my LNER account on its website to see if the service was still running. It was shown as cancelled!

Then early this morning, I got another email from LNER announcing that "it's my big day tomorrow" as I am "off to Stirling"! The email contained the usual links to menu options etc. But lo and behold a further check of my account revealed that the train remained cancelled. I have now organised a refund which has been confirmed.

I am becoming increasingly concerned at the rising number of instances where the LNER Inverness service fails to run north of Edinburgh in each direction. The usual excuse trotted out is "train crew issue". This is a key service for passengers using stations north of Edinburgh to/from stations in England and it reflects poorly upon LNER that it seems unable to get its act together. In the event of cancellation, folk have no option but to resort to Scotrail services - hardly satisfactory if a pathetic 3-car Class 170 represents the only alternative.

 

[800001]

I was due to take the 08.32 LNER service from Aviemore to Stirling tomorrow but two days ago I got a wishy-washy email from LNER advising me to check my LNER account on its website to see if the service was still running. It was shown as cancelled!

Then early this morning, I got another email from LNER announcing that "it's my big day tomorrow" as I am "off to Stirling"! The email contained the usual links to menu options etc. But lo and behold a further check of my account revealed that the train remained cancelled. I have now organised a refund which has been confirmed.

I am becoming increasingly concerned at the rising number of instances where the LNER Inverness service fails to run north of Edinburgh in each direction. The usual excuse trotted out is "train crew issue". This is a key service for passengers using stations north of Edinburgh to/from stations in England and it reflects poorly upon LNER that it seems unable to get its act together. In the event of cancellation, folk have no option but to resort to Scotrail services - hardly satisfactory if a pathetic 3-car Class 170 represents the only alternative.

The Inverness service is a stupidly crewed train, where the driver is a Newcastle lodge driver.
They pass up to Edinburgh then work the service to Inverness, lodge overnight, pass to Aberdeen and then work 1452 Aberdeen as far as Edinburgh.

If that turn goes uncovered Edinburgh becomes the place to terminate.

As far as I am aware Edinburgh drivers only sign as far as Perth? So they can’t even step up to work it.

Really seems stupid to me that Edinburgh drivers don’t drive to Inverness or Aberdeen.

 

[74A]

I am becoming increasingly concerned at the rising number of instances where the LNER Inverness service fails to run north of Edinburgh in each direction. The usual excuse trotted out is "train crew issue". This is a key service for passengers using stations north of Edinburgh to/from stations in England and it reflects poorly upon LNER that it seems unable to get its act together. In the event of cancellation, folk have no option but to resort to Scotrail services - hardly satisfactory if a pathetic 3-car Class 170 represents the only alternative.

All TOCs were affected by covid and having no driver training for 18 months.

Some were worse than others. LNER previously recruited for an increase in service that did not happen. So in the area towards London they had extra drivers which helped to compensate for this. However up in Scotland there were no extra drivers so the covid effect is still being felt. Drivers are bring recruited/trained but it will be a while before it gets back to normal.

 

[800001]

All TOCs were affected by covid and having no driver training for 18 months.

Some were worse than others. LNER previously recruited for an increase in service that did not happen. So in the area towards London they had extra drivers which helped to compensate for this. However up in Scotland there were no extra drivers so the covid effect is still being felt. Drivers are bring recruited/trained but it will be a while before it gets back to normal.

Scotland drivers has no impact on the Inverness service. It is crewed with a Newcastle driver and that is what has not being covered lately.

 

[matchmaker]

I was due to take the 08.32 LNER service from Aviemore to Stirling tomorrow but two days ago I got a wishy-washy email from LNER advising me to check my LNER account on its website to see if the service was still running. It was shown as cancelled!

Then early this morning, I got another email from LNER announcing that "it's my big day tomorrow" as I am "off to Stirling"! The email contained the usual links to menu options etc. But lo and behold a further check of my account revealed that the train remained cancelled. I have now organised a refund which has been confirmed.

I am becoming increasingly concerned at the rising number of instances where the LNER Inverness service fails to run north of Edinburgh in each direction. The usual excuse trotted out is "train crew issue". This is a key service for passengers using stations north of Edinburgh to/from stations in England and it reflects poorly upon LNER that it seems unable to get its act together. In the event of cancellation, folk have no option but to resort to Scotrail services - hardly satisfactory if a pathetic 3-car Class 170 represents the only alternative.

I have to add to add to my post #103 above that I got an e-mail from LNER at 1814 yesterday advising me that the train I was due to travel on at 1033 that day was going to be cancelled

 

[Walter Whigham]

The Inverness service is a stupidly crewed train, where the driver is a Newcastle lodge driver.
They pass up to Edinburgh then work the service to Inverness, lodge overnight, pass to Aberdeen and then work 1452 Aberdeen as far as Edinburgh.

If that turn goes uncovered Edinburgh becomes the place to terminate.

As far as I am aware Edinburgh drivers only sign as far as Perth? So they can’t even step up to work it.

Really seems stupid to me that Edinburgh drivers don’t drive to Inverness or Aberdeen.

Ridiculous! I take it that in the reverse direction a Newcastle driver works an Edinburgh/Aberdeen service, then travels on the cushions to Inverness preparatory to working the 07.55 departure in the morning?

 

[Watershed]

Ridiculous! I take it that in the reverse direction a Newcastle driver works an Edinburgh/Aberdeen service, then travels on the cushions to Inverness preparatory to working the 07.55 departure in the morning?

Yes. That's the way it's been done for donkeys' years, so in principle it's a workable solution. The problem is that you end up with a whole swathe of services cancelled as soon as one driver becomes unavailable - the set doesn't make it to Inverness on day 1, so it can't come back on day 2. And similarly with Aberdeen, though at least there are some drivers at Edinburgh who sign that.

 

[IanXC]

Yes. That's the way it's been done for donkeys' years, so in principle it's a workable solution. The problem is that you end up with a whole swathe of services cancelled as soon as one driver becomes unavailable - the set doesn't make it to Inverness on day 1, so it can't come back on day 2. And similarly with Aberdeen, though at least there are some drivers at Edinburgh who sign that.

I guess Edinburgh driver availability can't be great either, as I recall in years gone by that the service would terminate at Perth rather than Edinburgh with the set going empty back to Craigentinny, and then going empty back to Perth in the morning to start the service there. Can't recall that happening post pandemic?

 

[yorkie]

I can't see any LNER cancellations for today, and very few delayed trains.

The Inverness service is a stupidly crewed train, where the driver is a Newcastle lodge driver.
They pass up to Edinburgh then work the service to Inverness, lodge overnight, pass to Aberdeen and then work 1452 Aberdeen as far as Edinburgh.

If that turn goes uncovered Edinburgh becomes the place to terminate.

As far as I am aware Edinburgh drivers only sign as far as Perth? So they can’t even step up to work it.

Really seems stupid to me that Edinburgh drivers don’t drive to Inverness or Aberdeen.

Perhaps a topic for the Speculative Discussion section?

 

[Snow1964]

And as a “reward” for unreliability the DfT have announced today (21 September) that the direct award is extended to June 2023 with option to June 2025

Last updated 21 September 2022 - hide all updates

1. 21 September 2022
   The services agreement dated 24 June 2018 has been updated and extended until June 2023, with an option to extend further to June 2025.

London North Eastern Railway 2018 rail services agreement

London North Eastern Railway (LNER) 2018 services agreement and ancillary legal documents.

www.gov.uk

 

[trainstrainstr]

And as a “reward” for unreliability the DfT have announced today (21 September) that the direct award is extended to June 2023 with option to June 2025

London North Eastern Railway 2018 rail services agreement

London North Eastern Railway (LNER) 2018 services agreement and ancillary legal documents.

www.gov.uk

It makes no difference. It is the same staff, the same systems, the same people running the same railway.

 

[DanNCL]

And as a “reward” for unreliability the DfT have announced today (21 September) that the direct award is extended to June 2023 with option to June 2025

London North Eastern Railway 2018 rail services agreement

London North Eastern Railway (LNER) 2018 services agreement and ancillary legal documents.

www.gov.uk

They already had a contract until 2025!

 

[skyhigh]

And as a “reward” for unreliability the DfT have announced today (21 September) that the direct award is extended to June 2023 with option to June 2025

As far as unreliable operators go, I think LNER is quite a long way down the list.

 

[DanNCL]

As far as unreliable operators go, I think LNER is quite a long way down the list.

Indeed. They had one bad week (the week I created this thread) but otherwise they seem to be doing alright.