Doncaster Sheffield Airport to reopen?

[westv]

Such a pity. Apart from Humberside, it's our closest airport but Jet2 (our preferred operator) don't use it.

 

[Peter0124]

Thats a shame, I know the TUI 787 occasionally flies out of there too towards America

 

[Huntergreed]

A great shame for the local area, but economically and environmentally the correct decision.

 

[westv]

A great shame for the local area, but .... and environmentally the correct decision.

Really? The flights will still operate but from a different airport. People will still use those flights and some passengers will now have to travel further and drive there. The land may be used for houses and commercial use which will use energy and create traffic.

 

[Harpers Tate]

[cynic] Peel have got what they wanted all along. A site, with excellent transport links (by which I mean, a purpose built road off the M18) paid for with public money, which is ripe to be made into an industrial development. Open an existing airport; do nothing whatsoever to encourage airlines to actually use it; charge high fees; etc. And then, when airlines fail to arrive in any quantity and those that do start pulling out, do nothing to save them. Deem it uneconomic and refuse public assistance. Close it. Redevelop it as was intended all along. [/cynic]

 

[Killingworth]

[cynic] Peel have got what they wanted all along. A site, with excellent transport links (by which I mean, a purpose built road off the M18) paid for with public money, which is ripe to be made into an industrial development. Open an existing airport; do nothing whatsoever to encourage airlines to actually use it; charge high fees; etc. And then, when airlines fail to arrive in any quantity and those that do start pulling out, do nothing to save them. Deem it uneconomic and refuse public assistance. Close it. Redevelop it as was intended all along. [/cynic]

The reality is that all airports benefit from massive injections of funding from local and national governments (plus EU in times now gone), both by way of road and rail links, and also by incentives to airlines to fly from there. The famous example was Knock, now Ireland West Airport kept alive by Ryanair. It doesn't offer many flights but at least they're at reasonable times of the day, not last or first thing as so many were at DSA. (They were aimed at Eaatern European destinations popular with citizens of those countries coming and going to work here and visit relatives and friends before Brexit.)

I live in Sheffield. According to the RAC route planner's quickest routes we're 28 miles from DSA taking 42 minutes, 40 miles from Manchester taking 71 minutes, 45 miles from East Midlands taking 53 minutes and 50 miles from Leeds/Bradford taking 79 minutes. For me Manchester is my natural first choice due to the much bigger range of destinations and more frequent departures. East Midlands comes next. Leeds/Bradford may also be in Yorkshire but I can't recall ever considering a flight from there. That drive is too far.

Of course Manchester has the rail link, but no longer with hourly through trains from Sheffield - another story. Manchester and East Midlands have common ownership. A shame DSA couldn't have been part of a northern alliance working together.

 

[edwin_m]

Manchester and East Midlands have common ownership. A shame DSA couldn't have been part of a northern alliance working together.

Wouldn't such an alliance simply have hastened the demise of DSA, by making airlines attractive offers to re-locate to other airports they controlled? Manchester and EMA are probably far enough apart for that to be less of an issue, but I think DSA was doomed from the start by having several better-established airports within a reasonable distance of the population it served.

 

[Killingworth]

Wouldn't such an alliance simply have hastened the demise of DSA, by offering airlines attractive offers to re-locate to other airports they controlled? Manchester and EMA are probably far enough apart for that to be less of an issue, but I think DSA was doomed from the start by having several better-established airports within a reasonable distance of the population it served.

The demographics were always going to be against it. Sparsely populated, low income hinterland. Best used for diverted flights, private aircraft, bulk freight - and as a reserve for defence. Needs maintaining for those, not regular passenger flights.

 

[AlterEgo]

Really? The flights will still operate but from a different airport.

Will they?

People will still use those flights and some passengers will now have to travel further and drive there. The land may be used for houses and commercial use which will use energy and create traffic.

That's quite the logical stretch that closing an airport will increase the burden on the environment, and that the lowest impact use of the land in Finningley is...an international airport!

Wouldn't such an alliance simply have hastened the demise of DSA, by offering airlines attractive offers to re-locate to other airports they controlled? Manchester and EMA are probably far enough apart for that to be less of an issue, but I think DSA was doomed from the start by having several better-established airports within a reasonable distance of the population it served.

There are indeed far too many international airports on our fairly small island of Great Britain. We have 22. Twenty two!

Why?

Liverpool and Manchester don't need an airport each. Look at how many affordable houses could be built on the site of the airport. Teesside doesn't need to exist - same as DSA. Why do we have airports at Bristol *and* Cardiff, within 40 miles of each other? London doesn't need six airports. It needs three properly resourced ones at most.

Even looking at Northern Ireland, there are two serving Belfast. Mad really.

 

[edwin_m]

The demographics were always going to be against it. Sparsely populated, low income hinterland. Best used for diverted flights, private aircraft, bulk freight - and as a reserve for defence. Needs maintaining for those, not regular passenger flights.

Is it even needed for that? There are at least five other commercial airports within 30min flying time, as well as some smaller ones that cater for general aviation only. Other than around London and at Manchester there doesn't seem to be significant pressure on runway capacity. There is a good range of RAF bases across eastern England, and I can't really see an airport being kept mothballed in case of a defence need. If there really was a national emergency requiring more airport capacity, then commercial airports could be commandeered and their flights cancelled.

 

[Killingworth]

Is it even needed for that? There are at least five other commercial airports within 30min flying time, as well as some smaller ones that cater for general aviation only. Other than around London and at Manchester there doesn't seem to be significant pressure on runway capacity. There is a good range of RAF bases across eastern England, and I can't really see an airport being kept mothballed in case of a defence need. If there really was a national emergency requiring more airport capacity, then commercial airports could be commandeered and their flights cancelled.

It is indeed doomed. How it got so much support on hope and wishful thinking over evidence and common sense says a lot about the way we approach many big ticket projects.

 

[thenorthern]

Doncaster Airport was built at the wrong time, when it opened in 2005 regional airport were thriving. Then came the increase in airport security costs after 7/7 and the financial crash both of which severely affected regional airports.

Doncaster will now join Blackpool, Brighton, Plymouth, Gloucestershire, Coventry, Sheffield City, Oxford, Cambridge, Manston, Lydd, Carlisle, Swansea and Anglesey in the category of airport which offered scheduled flights in the past 20 years but don't anymore.

 

[westv]

Will they?

Yes, TUI have already announced an increase in flights from Leeds Bradford in 2023.

 

[Peter0124]

Doncaster Airport was built at the wrong time, when it opened in 2005 regional airport were thriving. Then came the increase in airport security costs after 7/7 and the financial crash both of which severely affected regional airports.

Doncaster will now join Blackpool, Brighton, Plymouth, Gloucestershire, Coventry, Sheffield City, Oxford, Cambridge, Manston, Lydd, Carlisle, Swansea and Anglesey in the category of airport which offered scheduled flights in the past 20 years but don't anymore.

Didnt Carlisle have loganair towards Dublin? How come it was dropped?

 

[thenorthern]

Didnt Carlisle have loganair towards Dublin? How come it was dropped?

They had it to Dublin, Belfast City and Southend but they stopped because of Covid. It was never going to be very popular as Carlisle itself isn't very big, remember it's population is only 75,000 many times smaller than several cities that don't have an airport. It largely only started flights because it could. Both Carlisle and Southend are owned by Esken (previously Stobart) and it was a goal of their's to have scheduled flights.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes, TUI have already announced an increase in flights from Leeds Bradford in 2023.

They aren’t replicating capacity. Their plans represent a significant capacity loss overall. DSA was uncompetitive for a reason.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Doncaster Airport was built at the wrong time, when it opened in 2005 regional airport were thriving. Then came the increase in airport security costs after 7/7 and the financial crash both of which severely affected regional airports.

Doncaster will now join Blackpool, Brighton, Plymouth, Gloucestershire, Coventry, Sheffield City, Oxford, Cambridge, Manston, Lydd, Carlisle, Swansea and Anglesey in the category of airport which offered scheduled flights in the past 20 years but don't anymore.

One thing that I think is clear: we need to really find a way to move out of the current airport security model. It's such a labour intensive, expensive and space-consuming system, and I find it unreal that we still haven't found a way for people to simply chuck their bags/cases onto a conveyor belt and walk through without hassle. If we could improve that, then regional airports will become more competitive again.

 

[thenorthern]

One thing that I think is clear: we need to really find a way to move out of the current airport security model. It's such a labour intensive, expensive and space-consuming system, and I find it unreal that we still haven't found a way for people to simply chuck their bags/cases onto a conveyor belt and walk through without hassle. If we could improve that, then regional airports will become more competitive again.

One thing as well to remember a year after Doncaster Airport opened there was the 2006 transatlantic aircraft plot when a group of Islamic Terrorists were planning to detonate bombs hidden in Lucozade bottles. They were stopped before it happened but the end result was a ban on liquids over 100ml which is still in place today. That itself has increased the cost of airport security by a lot.

 

[edwin_m]

One thing that I think is clear: we need to really find a way to move out of the current airport security model. It's such a labour intensive, expensive and space-consuming system, and I find it unreal that we still haven't found a way for people to simply chuck their bags/cases onto a conveyor belt and walk through without hassle. If we could improve that, then regional airports will become more competitive again.

It's still cheap enough to be able to fly across Europe for a few tends of pounds. I don't think anyone can seriously claim that excessive fares are deterring the use of the types of airlines that have flown from DSA.

 

[thenorthern]

It's still cheap enough to be able to fly across Europe for a few tends of pounds. I don't think anyone can seriously claim that excessive fares are deterring the use of the types of airlines that have flown from DSA.

A lot of the time the airports don't actually make money on budget airlines it's more the councils and sometimes governments want the airlines to use the airports as it generates a lot of tourism revenue for the area. Doncaster airport was always going to struggle in that regard as Doncaster is not the kind of town that generates a lot of domestic tourism let alone international tourism.

In simple terms you can't really imagine people from Bucharest (the busiest destination from Doncaster) planning a visit to Doncaster or Sheffield for that matter. They just aren't really touristy places.

 

[AlterEgo]

In simple terms you can't really imagine people from Bucharest (the busiest destination from Doncaster) planning a visit to Doncaster or Sheffield for that matter. They just aren't really touristy places.

Bucharest isn’t a good example to pick. That flight exists because of Romanian seasonal workers and friends and family traffic, and is not discretionary or tourist traffic.

 

[thenorthern]

Bucharest isn’t a good example to pick. That flight exists because of Romanian seasonal workers and friends and family traffic, and is not discretionary or tourist traffic.

I only mentioned it because it was the largest destination. The next on the list are Katowice and Gdansk which I assume are up there for the same reasons.

The point was though that Doncaster isn't really a tourist type town.

 

[E27007]

I only mentioned it because it was the largest destination. The next on the list are Katowice and Gdansk which I assume are up there for the same reasons.

The point was though that Doncaster isn't really a tourist type town.

The Airport serviced direct flights by East European Air Companies, the town became a hot spot for East Europeans, several areas of the town have been taken over by those immigrants.
There is considerable ill feeling in the town, the town voted 2 to 3 for Brexit, the traditionally Labour town even elected a far-right Mayor in 2012. the English Democrat Party candidate

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Sep 2022 ==

I only mentioned it because it was the largest destination. The next on the list are Katowice and Gdansk which I assume are up there for the same reasons.

The point was though that Doncaster isn't really a tourist type town.

I know the town very well, one of the poorest / low-opportunity towns in England, there is (or was) a thriving Tourist Industry....Benefit Tourism.

 

[island]

One thing that I think is clear: we need to really find a way to move out of the current airport security model. It's such a labour intensive, expensive and space-consuming system, and I find it unreal that we still haven't found a way for people to simply chuck their bags/cases onto a conveyor belt and walk through without hassle. If we could improve that, then regional airports will become more competitive again.

The technology exists but not the funding and/or will to deploy it. See for example Evolv Express.

 

[Cloud Strife]

The technology exists but not the funding and/or will to deploy it. See for example Evolv Express.

Blimey, thanks for that. It's ridiculous, you'd think that such solutions would cut down massively on the costs for security in terms of labour.

One other thing that I've noticed recently: the type of scanners used in Dublin and Tallinn are incredibly inefficient. Anywhere between 25-50% of bags seem to be pulled aside for a secondary check, which just causes huge amounts of people to wait around while their bag is inspected in front of them.

 

[thenorthern]

The Airport serviced direct flights by East European Air Companies, the town became a hot spot for East Europeans, several areas of the town have been taken over by those immigrants.
There is considerable ill feeling in the town, the town voted 2 to 3 for Brexit, the traditionally Labour town even elected a far-right Mayor in 2012. the English Democrat Party candidate

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Sep 2022 ==


I know the town very well, one of the poorest / low-opportunity towns in England, there is (or was) a thriving Tourist Industry....Benefit Tourism.

It was 2009 when Doncaster elected Peter Davies as mayor, it was just after the expenses scandal when Labour was doing badly everywhere. He narrowly lost reelection in 2013.

That is another story altogether though.

 

[Killingworth]

It was 2009 when Doncaster elected Peter Davies as mayor, it was just after the expenses scandal when Labour was doing badly everywhere. He narrowly lost reelection in 2013.

That is another story altogether though.

Doncaster is also a city now. The world moves on and their present mayor is quite impressive.

Brexit has made a big difference to the market for travel to Eastern Europe. I suspect family and friends would be far happier with early and late flight times than tourists and business people. Covid and the war in Ukraine haven't helped either.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Brexit has made a big difference to the market for travel to Eastern Europe.

Honestly, right now, the biggest problem in Poland is a government that is hell-bent on destroying regional airports more than anything else. Brexit has had very little impact on aviation as such.

(the Government want to build a massive new airport halfway between Warsaw and Łódz, and the only way to make this white elephant plan work is to destroy regional airports)

 

[WestCoast]

I saw on Facebook earlier that Wizzair will be launching a load of routes to Central/East European from Leeds Bradford, so there must still be a market to serve from the area.

 

[Tetchytyke]

John Whittaker, owner of Peel Holdings, lives here in tax exile. What I would like to say about him is almost certainly libellous, but let's just say he didn't get to live in a £30M mansion by not knowing how to manipulate a situation.

I would argue there are too many regional airports, though. DSA, like Teesside, is stuck between two catchment areas that are already served by better airports. Being honest, East Mids, Leeds and Newcastle are more than sufficient for the catchment area, and even East Mids mostly makes its money off freight.

The walking lobotomy Ben Houchen is just wasting taxpayers money keeping Teesside on life support after Whittaker walked away with a big fat cheque. He was clearly angling for the same at DSA; sensibly the councils didn't bite.