Notice of intended prosecution received-suspicious refund claims

[Zoo2022]

Hi guys,

I'm hoping for some advice on a very regrettable situation I find myself in. I have just received a "notice of intended prosecution" letter directly from Chiltern Railways to respond within 14 days. Alarmingly I only just received this letter and it is dated 8 days ago , so I only have a few days left to respond!

A few months ago I was caught at London Marylebone without a valid ticket. Essentially I had purchased the start and end of my journey which was a very silly thing to do. Out of panic I initially lied to the fraud investigator officer (who took me to the side after I collected paper tickets) saying I had traveled from Wembley, but then soon after I admitted that I had traveled further afield. After this point it was a polite interaction and I answered all questions honestly. I did not realise the seriousness of the offence until this point, and the officer mentioned possible court action /or more likely an out of court settlement as I was polite and cooperative.

This was bad enough, however in the letter I have just received, following a data access request on my Trainline account, they have claimed that I have submitted several suspicious refund claims in a 3 year period. They have said they are giving me the opportunity to inform them of any mitigation, and in absence of satisfactory explanation, they have evidence to prosecute. Legislation mentioned they are considering is offence against Railway Byelaws 2005, RoRA 1889, or the Fraud Act 2006.

Looking back at old emails, the refunds seem to mostly be short couple of quid journeys. I was at university during these years and there seemed to be many other students freely doing/encouraging this, so I did not know any better. So there is a chance it may have occurred, but I feel like I need to know what exactly they are referring to and the dates in question. Despite this, I can recall some of the refunds definitely being legitimate (i.e genuine mistakes, or the train was so busy/ or I missed it , so would quickly run to a bus very close by, ), so I am concerned some might be genuine refunds but considered fraudulent in the eyes of Chiltern. I'm pretty sure most of these trains were not Chiltern services but another train company (West Midlands Railway) (not sure if that matters?)

I am currently drafting a letter in response and I have so far stated how sorry and disappointed I am in myself, that I have learnt from this incident, I do not wish to leave them out of pocket as fare evasion costs the railways millions (so would pay any outstanding fares and administrative costs), and I would like to settle the matter without the need of court action.

Any advice on how to respond to the suspicious refund claims to increase my chances of achieving a good outcome ( i.e out of court settlement, not a prosecution) would be much appreciated. Any helpful comments are welcomed. This has been quite a stressful ordeal over the last few months and seems to have built up to this crucial moment!

 

[30907]

If you consider that some of the refund claims were genuine, you need to explain why (not to us!). The suspicion will be that you bought the ticket, travelled, and took advantage of there being no ticket check, and you have pretty much admitted to doing this on occasion. Chiltern and WMR will also be aware of journeys where random checks show up patterns of fraudulent travel, and it is likely that your journeys fitted that pattern.
Unfortunately for you, you then escalated to the more serious matter ofcshort-faring and were caught.

My guess is that the best you can achieve is to reduce slightly the size of the out-of-court settlement you might be offered, the worst that they decide you are not cooperating and decide to prosecute. Others may have different views.

 

[AlterEgo]

Another one to add to the long roll of honour of people caught at Marylebone with a ticket from Wembley.

Regarding the refunds: Only the OP will know if they engaged in fraudulent behaviour.

If someone accused me of fraud I would flatly deny it without further comment. If your response to such an allegation is “well everyone was at it weren’t they… well I’ve looked at some paperwork and some refunds appear to be genuine”, you really ought to get a solicitor.

As this pertains to an allegation of sustained fraud - a serious offence - rather than a railway-specific offence I don’t feel it is my place to offer further advice.

 

[RPI]

If the fraud act is being quoted in correspondence then the TOC most likely suspect that there is long term multiple irregularities, therefore professional legal advice is probably a good idea.

 

[skyhigh]

I'm pretty sure most of these trains were not Chiltern services but another train company (West Midlands Railway) (not sure if that matters?)

No, that makes no difference. The train companies work together to combat fare evasion and are able to prosecute on behalf of another company.

 

[30907]

If the fraud act is being quoted in correspondence then the TOC most likely suspect that there is long term multiple irregularities, therefore professional legal advice is probably a good idea.

Perhaps Chiltern/TIL now include this reference as a matter of course where they suspect repeated evasion.

By contrast the very recent letter uploaded here doesn't:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/chiltern-railway-ticket-shorting.234195/.
- but the OP specifically claimed it was a first offence, so they may have found no evidence to the contrary.

Back to the OP, I would be very wary of digging my hole any deeper and have amended my earlier post.

Note: we rarely hear on here of actual Fraud Act prosecutions, which is not to say that they never happen.

 

[Snow1964]

Only the Op will know, but if they were at University at the time and making a number of journeys (and this was pre pandemic), but now they live somewhere else or pattern of journeys has changed, then it should be fairly easy to state that.

I think opening up old stuff is just muddying the waters, if it is long ago and you remember multiple delays and claims, but can’t remember the details now, simply say so.

 

[Gloster]

A thought from a non-expert. Have Chiltern changed their arrangements so that TiL deal with routine investigations, but they have an in-house team that deals with the most serious ones? I have a feeling that we have had one or two cases posted that have been dealt with by Chiltern directly and were of a much larger scale than those handled by TIL. If I am right, and please remember that I am not an expert, then the possibility of a prosecution under the Fraud Act is, at least, a possibility and things should be handled carefully.

 

[Zoo2022]

Another one to add to the long roll of honour of people caught at Marylebone with a ticket from Wembley.

Regarding the refunds: Only the OP will know if they engaged in fraudulent behaviour.

If someone accused me of fraud I would flatly deny it without further comment. If your response to such an allegation is “well everyone was at it weren’t they… well I’ve looked at some paperwork and some refunds appear to be genuine”, you really ought to get a solicitor.

As this pertains to an allegation of sustained fraud - a serious offence - rather than a railway-specific offence I don’t feel it is my place to offer further advice.

Yes the iconic Marylebone! Trouble is I wouldn't know where to start with getting a solicitor and the large costs that could involve. And since I have a matter of days to respond due to the letter getting to me a week after the date it is dated , I feel like my options seem rather limited. I am concerned flatly denying it without comment would lead to all these expensive legal avenues and more likely to prosecute? I always believe honesty is the best policy in these cases, but do not wish to dig my hole any deeper than necessary

 

[Zoo2022]

No, that makes no difference. The train companies work together to combat fare evasion and are able to prosecute on behalf of another company.

Thanks for clarifying, I did think so

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2022 ==

Only the Op will know, but if they were at University at the time and making a number of journeys (and this was pre pandemic), but now they live somewhere else or pattern of journeys has changed, then it should be fairly easy to state that.

I think opening up old stuff is just muddying the waters, if it is long ago and you remember multiple delays and claims, but can’t remember the details now, simply say so.

Thanks for the comment, so mentioning that my pattern of journeys has since changed might help reassure them it will not happen again? And is it okay to concede not remembering the details of each specific instance?

 

[some bloke]

You can either find a solicitor who deals with fraud:

https://solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk/?Pro=True

or (perhaps better and more expensive per hour) one specialising in fare evasion who can deal with potential fraud allegations. Solicitors dealing with other kinds of fraud might not be so familiar with how train companies react.

fare evasion solicitors at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

There have been good reports about Penman Sedgwick:

Advice regarding lawyer to assist with fare evasion case

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/receive-a-court-letter-for-being-charged-fail-to-present-a-railcard.227458 Hi Could you let us know what solicitor you used as my daughter is in the same situation Hi i am also in a similar situation, could you let me know which...

www.railforums.co.uk

And the search results above include one from Trustpilot on Manak Solicitors.

You can:

- call more than one solicitor,
- say you are trying to find out who can best help you,
- describe your situation,
- ask about their experience with rail companies (if they don't specialise in rail fare evasion) and
- hire the one who seems most suitable.

Does the letter say they want to "hear from you" by the deadline, rather than needing a substantive/full response by then?

If so, they may see it as reasonable for you to ask for an extension, given the delay (but do that in good time). On the other hand being as cooperative as possible may help.

 

[Zoo2022]

Does the letter say they want to "hear from you" by the deadline, rather than needing a substantive/full response by then?

It said something like, if they do not hear back from me within 14 days of the date on the letter, a court summons may be issued without further reference to me.

Thanks very much for explaining how to go about getting a solicitor. My only worry is that they'd want to take over the whole case and want to spend a lot of time and therefore would be very ££, especially for someone in the railway niche.

Would any just possibly offer quick legal advice/assistance with how to address the refund claims in the letter? Though perhaps it would be worth considering more hands-on involvement if the case were to escalate further

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

This is a very serious case, given the number of times you have potentially travelled without the correct ticket, not to mention altering tickets which is far more serious. If you end up avoiding prosecution then I do have to wonder exactly what level of fare evasion you do have to commit to get prosecuted.

This is the advice I usually give to people to come here asking for advice on how to reply to the letters they've sent by train operating companies asking for their version of events before deciding how to proceed. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. This is likely to be a sunstantial sum in your case. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Given the seriousness of your case it might be worth engaging a solicitor. A solicitor specialising in railway ticketing matters is not necessary as the facts seem pretty straightforward (what I mean by that is we're not talking about intrticate minutaie of the Ruteing Guide or the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement etc). A local solicitor specialising in criminal defence work will suffice at this stage. Many solicitors will offer an initial consultation for free so this might be worth considering.

Please do keep us informed about how things progress.

 

[30907]

Welcome to the forum!

This is a very serious case, given the number of times you have potentially travelled without the correct ticket, not to mention altering tickets which is far more serious. If you end up avoiding prosecution then I do have to wonder exactly what level of fare evasion you do have to commit to get prosecuted.

I don't think the OP has admitted to altering tickets, unlike Mevzx8 on the same route but whose post is 12 hours more recent.

 

[Hadders]

I don't think the OP has admitted to altering tickets, unlike Mevzx8 on the same route but whose post is 12 hours more recent.

Ah my bad! Too many Marylebone threads on here at the moment!

 

[some bloke]

Thanks very much for explaining how to go about getting a solicitor. My only worry is that they'd want to take over the whole case and want to spend a lot of time and therefore would be very ££, especially for someone in the railway niche.

Would any just possibly offer quick legal advice/assistance with how to address the refund claims in the letter?

Manak say they offer 15 minutes free and a consultation for £125:

Fare Evasion Solicitors | Kent & London | Manak Solicitors

Manak Solicitors: Skilled legal defence for fare evasion cases. Rely on our experienced team to protect your rights, challenge penalties, and guide you through the process.

manaksolicitors.co.uk

The reasons to choose a fare evasion specialist would include their familiarity with dealing with train companies, and perhaps existing relationships with individuals in the companies.

You might like to bear this in mind: The company may be reasonable to suspect you've avoided fares on other, possibly many, occasions in addition to dates they know about. They might be keener to prosecute for known dates if they suspect other incidents as well.

Perhaps Chiltern might ask you in for an interview to establish which of the dates you avoided fares on. A solicitor dealing with general crime might do the job fine - your decision depends on your finances and approach. Or there might be peculiarities of Chiltern's motivation which mean that a specialist can more easily persuade them you've changed your behaviour. You're in the difficult position of having used more than one method of avoiding fares, for different journeys, in an extended period. Personally I would at least be curious to see what the specialists say in a first phone call compared to the generalists. Specialists may well say they have a higher chance of avoiding prosecution, and perhaps in your case they would be right.

You can discuss what you do and don't want a solicitor to work on, and how their fees would be structured, when you call them.

 

[LCC106]

Would any just possibly offer quick legal advice/assistance with how to address the refund claims in the letter?

Just a brief disclaimer that unless anyone specifically tells you otherwise, we are unable to offer "legal advice".